My KBQ arrives on Thursday, and I'm hoping to do my first cook on Sunday. I've read this whole thread, but have a few questions about my first cook(s). For these four meats, I'd love to hear the group's thoughts on:
- What pit temp do you use?
- Bottom poppet open, top poppet open, or both?
- About how long for the cook?
Typically, for briskets and short ribs, I run my KBQ at about 230 F average. The KBQ temp fluctuates as the fan kicks on and off. So 230 F is a pretty safe average. It usually takes about 8 to 10 hours. Only bottom poppet open.
For ribs, I like to run at about 275 F. Bottom poppet open, top closed. These cook fast, like in about 3 to 4 hours for St. Louis Style Ribs.
Chicken gets blasted, spatchcocked, poppets wide open, heat all the way up, or close to it. I do allow it to cycle on and off, but it is running at about 400 F. The chicken is usually done in about 1 hour or less.
Johnny, there are many ways to smoke meats in your KBQ and have them come out excellent, above and beyond what most other smokers and pit watchers can do.
My big beef ribs usually run anywhere from 6 to 8 hours to get tender and have that "better than beef jerky" bark.
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I just asked my smoking buddy for our Beef Short Rib procedure.
He is a great guy, a "non-drinker" who monitors the smokes and the intervals for us as to when to do "this" and when to do "that".
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And now for... "The Beef Short Rib Procedure that Produces my Best Results!"
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I go with a heavy rub of Kosher salt and fresh black coarse ground peppercorn. (50/50 by weight)
(Swirl well each time before sprinkling)
This way the beef flavor shines through.
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My spritz is:
30% Bottled Water
60% Apple Cider Vinegar
5% Wooster sauce
5% Soy sauce
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For Beef Short Ribs, I tried to follow Aaron Franklin's advice, but with this being a convection type, they ran too hot and started "Sizzling" on me.
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So, I lowered the temperature over and over and for ME, they finally stopped sizzling at a 235°F average temperature.
During my 1st trials with these monster ribs, I "fought" sizzling, and spritzed them like crazy to try to keep them from drying out.
Franklin said to run them at 275°F but said to drop the temperature if they sizzle.
So to me, sizzling is bad, as I discovered that the meat under that sizzle becomes dry and a bit darker, like a darker "chocolate" brown colored area. (NOT so good)
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On another note...
My family, friends and I all really like the KBQ's lighter but yet wonderfully full bodied smoke flavor, so I run all of my smokes with the Lid ON.
With the Firebox being covered, it forces much more smoke to go down through the hot coals and be purified into "blue" smoke
So when I run, the bottom poppet is locked open for maximum blue smoke... always.
To get this top quality smoke, I also make sure the coal tray holes are covered with red hot coals.
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For these beef short ribs, the top poppet ("dirty smoke") is set at 1/8" open.
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I start the smoke with white Oak for the first 3 hours Johnny.
After that, I go to Mesquite and run it all the way to the finish.
In my opinion, there is absolutely no need to "fear" Mesquite with the KBQ.
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Okay...
So before they go into the KBQ, I cut them into individual ribs, and then sear on my Weber first to add more flavor.
Then I Spritz the ribs well just before the rub, and after a 30 minute rest, into the smoke.
After they are smoking, I go in and spritz them again in 45 minutes.
This every 45 minute spritz goes on until they reach an average temperature of about 150°F internal.
At that point, I then spritz every 30 minutes until they reach an average of about 175°F internal.
Finally, following Aaron's advice to spritz beef short ribs often near the end of the smoke, I spritz thoroughly every 10 to 15 minutes from 175°F on until they probe tender at around 200°F to 208°F.
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Some areas will simply not probe tender and I do not know why this is, but when the probe breaks through the silver-skin on the bone side easily, I call that rib done and pull it to rest.
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The following is more of what I do when smoking these "fatty-brisket-on-a-stick" beef ribs...
Keep the bones down, meat up.
Keep them away from the back side of the racks next to the manifold, and closer to the door side of the cook chamber.
If you don't you may have the meat located in a hot and heavy smoke spot, which tends to darken and dry the meat.
Add a water pan in the very bottom on the floor of the cook chamber.
Add a full sized stainless steel steam table pan that is one inch deep as a drip pan.
It catches most all of the dripping oil and dripping spritz.
Slide it into the 2nd slot from the bottom, and empty it as soon as it gets about half full of oil.
(After about two or three hours, I dump the oil in mine into a plastic 5-gallon bucket)
After it is empty, add water to almost half full.
This helps to keep the smoking chamber very moist.
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After I pull them, I rest the meat at about 100°F to 110°F for about a half hour and then we enjoy!
Thank you Spinaker.
I forgot an important step so I edited the above post, adding it w/photos.
After "single rib" cutting, there is not enough meat to consider much of a rest in my opinion.
Am thinking that a long rest redistributes moisture in a larger cut of meat but doesn't help a small cut much?
Last edited by BBQ_Bill; July 13, 2017, 10:25 PM.
Reason: OOPS! Forgot an important step in my beef rib details.
My KBQ arrives on Thursday, and I'm hoping to do my first cook on Sunday. I've read this whole thread, but have a few questions about my first cook(s). For these four meats, I'd love to hear the group's thoughts on:
- What pit temp do you use?
- Bottom poppet open, top poppet open, or both?
- About how long for the cook?
St. Louis ribs - 230 degrees average, Bottom poppet open, about 4 hours
After nearly a year of seeing people talk about the KBQ on here I pulled the trigger as well. Waiting for that FedEx delivery as I post this followed by 100 lbs of wood (post oak and hickory) from Fruita Wood. Thanks for putting together such a great and informative thread!
It just arrived. Felt bad for the Fed Ex guy lugging it around by himself. Must be used to lifting boxes all day long though. Hoping to test it out with some pork ribs on Saturday.
Also, so excited to see the Anova being used along with the KBQ. Really love sous vide, so perfect pair. Now need to find the time to read through all 71 pages to learn from everyone.
Also, so excited to see the Anova being used along with the KBQ. Really love sous vide, so perfect pair. Now need to find the time to read through all 71 pages to learn from everyone.
I'm thinking about and planning a KBQ experiment, but looking for any thoughts you all might have please?
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Looking to set a KBQ at a 135°F average to simply add smoke/bark ONLY to a brisket after it has been in my new SV at 155°F for 30 hours. (I am only in the planning stages at this point in time)
As usual, I will be "Weber searing" on Kingsford charcoal to add flavor before it goes into the KBQ smoker.
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Here is a shot of a trimmed packer with just about the right sear on my Weber.
This searing is done just before the first spritz.
I then add my standard brisket rub, and give it a minimum of 30 minutes to rest and absorb salt before it goes into the KBQ to smoke.
FYI... Searing both brisket and beef short ribs before the smoke is now my standard procedure.
Searing prior to smoking became the "norm" after RAVE reviews from the eaters.
They agreed that the additional flavor from the Maillard Reaction caused by searing is better than the flavor smoking alone creates.
Trust me when I say it's like giving your BBQ a dose of "Double Umami"
So... has anyone reading this tried a low temperature KBQ smoke to build bark WITHOUT cooking the meat further?
Am hoping that my proposed 6+ hours of low temperature smoking makes it "Barky" without drying it out.
Any advice, experienced or not is appreciated as I have written out a detailed procedure, and hope to try this out as my Sous Vide just arrived today.
Thank you all in advance!
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Smoke On!
Haven't got much in the way of suggestions - I've not yet tried to hold the KBQ at that low a temp. Be careful of the brisket wanting to fall apart when it comes out of the bath. We look forward to your outcomes!
Hmmmm... that "falling apart" thing doesn't sound so good EdF.
I was wanting a large gelatinous wobbly and very moist mass, so maybe I need to hold off, and revisit/research a bit more regarding the temperature and the time that a packer should be in the SV.
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Basically EdF, I'm wanting to duplicate what I currently produce, but with a moist flat guaranteed, every time.
The fact is, I'm having more success stories the more I smoke Choice packers, but simply do not "nail" it getting a moist flat every single time.
At this point, I am leaning towards the thought that when the flat comes out a bit dry, it was probably due to two things...
1) It's a Choice packer versus a Prime packer. (Which I feel narrows the window of total success greatly)
AND
2) My timing was off a bit because my thoughts as mentioned are that the window of success with Choice is quite small, and I must really be "On my Game" to get a perfect pull test as well as a moist flat every time.
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With the Prime packers from Costco, I find them shall I say, a "Cut Above" and very forgiving for my small timing errors.
Basically, after about half a dozen or so Prime packers from them, I'm "batting 1000" with no dry flats thus far.
(Knock on wood )
However my fellow smoking buddy, I don't go with Costco's Prime briskets that much due to the higher price and therefore a lower profit margin.
I also currently have a deal set up with my local Supermarket manager and butcher, getting Choice packers for $0.10 over their cost by buying them a case at a time. They order them with their regular requests, and mark them "Wild Bill" or "BBQ Bill".
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When it comes to a special occasion, like certain holidays with a family gathering, Costco is THE source for brisket as I have found them to be high quality Prime.
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I DO want to thank you kindly sir for your thoughts and post.
VERY Much appreciated.
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I have to get off of here as I see that I have sold another KBQ Door Kit this morning, and need to get it in the mail.
Smoke On!
(BTW, to better my chances of "nailing it" every time, I have invented and built a prototype "Doneness Gauge" and it seems to be working nicely. Time will tell)
I'm thinking about and planning a KBQ experiment, but looking for any thoughts you all might have please?
Smoke On!
You are going to be hard pressed to build bark at that temp. I don't think you would develop great bark, because the pit temperature is so low, you won't have much surface evaporation in only 6 hours of cooking. I think you will be able to put on plenty of smoke at 215 F for two hours and you would achieve better bark formation. Are you going to take it off after 6 hours and finish it in another cooker? What is your ultimate finishing temp?.......Sorry, I feel like I am missing something.
Good Morning Spinaker!
Yeah, after reading that post it IS confusing.
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I am building (and keep changing) an SV brisket plan and am a "nut" when it comes to experiments, BUT I am having fun so that is what counts to me.
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This "waffling" plan WAS going to be to...
1) Trim and Kosher salt ONLY one of my wet aged 32°F full packer Choice briskets.
2) Vacuum bag it (with an extended flap to be able to re-seal it later) and proceed to SV it for 30 hours at 155°F.
3) At the end of the 30 hour cook, cut the seal and pour the resultant liquids into a bowl.
4) Place those liquids into the fridge to solidify and separate the fat from the gelatin.
5) Vacuum bag again and place the packer in a water and ice bath to cool it rapidly.
6) After an hour or so, place the sealed bag into my custom holding freezer at 32°F.
7) Relax...
8) Whenever I feel like it and have the time early some weekend morning, light up the Weber Kettle.
9) Remove the packer from the fridge and sear the bare meat side (As seen in a posted photo above)
10) Spritz and rub it with 1/16" cracked black peppercorn.
11) Place the fully SV cooked, seared, and rubbed brisket into a 250°F smokey KBQ until the internal temperature hits 140°F.
12) Drop the KBQ temperature to 140°F average, spritz often to cause the smoke to adhere, and let it smoke as long as it takes to get a good bark.
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So, what do you think Sir?
interesting.
I stick mine in a 160 degrees KBQ. The hunk of meat is already cooked so all I'm doing is reheating and adding some smoke.
I want reheat using just enough temperature to prevent overcooking.
Will be looking forward to hearing more about the doneness gauge.
Here's a random collection of notes about SVQ brisket from various members:
=== brisket or chuck roast
Another guy did brisket, 4 hours on KBQ at 225, iced and stored, then 4 hours sous-vide at 185, then sear to restore bark. Looked good.
potkettleblack likes 135-140 for 48-72 hours, then ice, then smoke to desired bark (brisket). Breadhead concurs.
(potkettleblack): So, I know JKLA and ChefSteps like hotter temps and shorter cooks for their Sous-B-Cue, but I'm gonna state a minority opinion. Chuck, do at 130-135 x 48-72, until it passes a pinch test. Brisket, same time, same temp, same test. The pinch test is a key concept for sous vide, just like probe tender for traditional BBQ.
If you are inclined to attempt this again, do a chuck (unless brisket is cheaper where you are... in which case do a brisket flat). Put it in for 135* for 24 hours... pinch the bag. If it’s not tender, it's not ready. Give it another 12. Repeat until it’s tender under your pinch. When it's tender, shock it cold in an ice bath. Refrigerate overnight. You want this cold on the grill/smoker. Dry it off, rub it, put it on at 225-250* and let it run until it's rethermed. Then, take it off, and heat your sear up to sear temps and sear it until you have the crust you want. That should produce closer to what you're looking for.
Ernest: Here’s what I did with brisket (and do with pork butt)
Sous Vide at 145 for 48 hours for steak like texture
Sous Vide at 165 for traditional BBQ texture
Chill (ice bucket) and refrigerate until feastday.
Smoke to serving temp (~145) and preferredcolor.
If smoked to 203, the advantages of sous vide arenegated.
JCBBQ: 165 for 24 hours, ice and fridge, smoke 3 hours at 275. Traditional outcome, not much bark. Meh.
"medium rare": 125 for 48 hours, sear at about 1K. Steak-ish, great for cold sandwiches.
Small Brisket pieces - point or flat alone (ChefSteps): 24 at 155, followed by short(?) smoking.
Thick chuck steak (ChefSteps): 24 hours at 140, followed by a sear. Result is medium, but tender.
****** Overall: stunning success. Best brisket I've made. Smoky flavor on target, moist, tender meat with good 'pull test' performance, crunchy bark.
In the interest of full disclosure, this was a very nice cut of brisket from my local butcher; cost $40 for 5.5 pound piece. It is not technically USDA prime, since it's not been graded at all, but I expect it's about equivalent based on marbling. See first picture below for a nice view of the piece of meat. I'm still interested in making a great brisket from a cheaper cut of meat, but trying to get technique down first.
****** Quick rundown of procedure (purchased meat Wednesday, started smoking on a Thursday, served for dinner Saturday):
1. Freeze (overnight)
2. Smoke to 157F (5 Hours - Thursday)
3. Sous Vide at 155F to tenderize/finish cooking (24 Hours, late Thursday afternoon to late Friday afternoon)
4. Chill, then Refrigerate (1 day, late Friday afternoon to late Saturday afternoon)
5. Apply rub and heat/smoke to build bark; ~140F internal temperature (2 Hours, Saturday afternoon/evening)
6. Serve
****** Commentary:
I did freezing as a test, basically to ensure more time on the smoker. I've not read of anyone else doing this, and was a bit afraid it would degrade the meat, but I saw no evidence of this. My setup tends to run hot (live in a big condo building, and charcoal is not allowed, my Weber gas grill was way too hot, even running the right burner and putting meat over the left burner, which was off. I finally figured out I can put the meat over a water pan, which moderates the temperature nicely).
Ed, great post! Wondering, since it's been about nine months, are there any other updates? I've got a high-end grass fed packer from CraftCow.com and looking to do the thinner side with the flat smoke-sous vide-vide, and the point/flat side conventionally in the KBQ. Any experience with grass fed. I see Aaron Franklin says avoid it, but I see others who have good outcomes.
My KBQ has landed and is ready to go tomorrow. I'll start with an easy cook since I won't have the time for a long one. I've got some baby backs and St. Louis ribs. I'm fortunate to have a wood supplier who also supplies a local BBQ joint. He just delivered some very nice oak cut to KBQ specs.
My Maverick ET-732's probe won't fit through the small holes at the top front corners. I also have another brand thermometer with an L-shaped probe but I can't get it to snake through. What are you doing to get a food and fire probe into the box? Maverick has a "hybrid" probe so I might email them for its diameter but for my 732 I don't seem to have another choice as far as I can see. Do any of you have another brand whose probe passes through?
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