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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Breadhead
    Banned Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 1

    For you guys that don't fully understand your new sourdough starter and what's actually happening in it or how to manipulate it to be more or less sour, here is a podcast done by Chef Jacob.

    I recommend you listen to the entire podcast because you will learn a lot about bread making. The section about your starter begins at the 15 minute mark and runs about 20 minutes. https://stellaculinary.com/scs22


    For the uber sourdough geek who wants to take their knowledge of their sourdough starter even further, I would highly recommend the following article:

    Comment

    • scottranda
      Charter Member
      • May 2015
      • 1472
      • Charlotte, NC

      Here is my first attempt! It's been a long time coming. The stainless stee bowl took forever to come in (through Amazon), so I canceled it and got one that was delivered in 2 days.

      My first attempt was ugly, but it still tastes good! The slap and folds were a little more difficult than I was anticipating. It was my real first attempt at handling dough, so I was super un-confident throughout the whole process. Even putting it in the oven, I thought it was going to flop.

      The crust wasn't as crusty as what I was hoping for. My shape of the bread is terrible. Scoring the top was pitiful. But, heck, it tastes good! I'm hopeful for my next go at it! I can only improve from here, right?
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • MBMorgan
        MBMorgan commented
        Editing a comment
        Good looking (and tasty) first attempt ... congrats!

      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        +1^ what Mbmorgan said. Great first loaf. The crumb looks good and you got some nice blisters.
    • Breadhead
      Banned Former Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 1

      Originally posted by scottranda View Post
      Here is my first attempt! It's been a long time coming. The stainless stee bowl took forever to come in (through Amazon), so I canceled it and got one that was delivered in 2 days.

      My first attempt was ugly, but it still tastes good! The slap and folds were a little more difficult than I was anticipating. It was my real first attempt at handling dough, so I was super un-confident throughout the whole process. Even putting it in the oven, I thought it was going to flop.

      The crust wasn't as crusty as what I was hoping for. My shape of the bread is terrible. Scoring the top was pitiful. But, heck, it tastes good! I'm hopeful for my next go at it! I can only improve from here, right?
      scottranda ... Your first attempt at everything is kind of iffy really but you did pretty good. Next time you will be more comfortable. I suggest you watch Chef Jacob's video on making sourdough bread paying very close attention to the part about final shaping and tension pulls. Personally I'm slightly more aggressive on tension pulls than he is.😎 I want the dough to be so tight I'm worried about tearing the outer skin.πŸ‘

      If... You get your dough as tight as you can get it during your tension pulls, without tearing the skin of the dough, it improves many things.
      1. A real tight final proofed boule is easier to score/dock properly because it is firmer. Your lame won't drag on it, it will slice it.
      2. Your dough will rise up, not out, and can almost become shaped like a round ball if it's real tight during the oven spring process.
      3. You scoring marks will become more pronounced because of the maximum oven spring created by real tight tension pulls.

      The color and crispness of your crust... I personally prefer my sourdough bread to be darker in color than what you commonly find in your local grocery store. I realize not all people like a darker crust though. The longer you leave your loaf in after removing the SS mixing bowl the darker & dryer your crust will get. The rule of thumb is 203Β° of your crumb is the optimum IT. Mine sometimes end up at 208Β° because I cook to color and the crumb comes out just fine.

      Good luck on your next loaf.πŸ‘
      Last edited by Breadhead; September 12th, 2016, 01:08 PM.

      Comment


      • Potkettleblack
        Potkettleblack commented
        Editing a comment
        203* seems like a magic temp point... weird.
    • scottranda
      Charter Member
      • May 2015
      • 1472
      • Charlotte, NC

      Breadhead Thanks! I look forward to more and better loaves! Now, I get to enjoy a homemade loaf for dinner!

      Comment


      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        Enjoy my friend... It will be better than most sourdough bread you buy. No additives just real old fashion sourdough bread. Flour water and salt with some help by wild yeast.πŸ‘
    • RonB
      Club Member
      • Apr 2016
      • 10805
      • Near Richmond VA
      • Weber Performer Deluxe
        SNS
        Pizza insert
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        Smokenator 1000
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        2 Thermapens
        Chefalarm
        Dot
        lots of probes.
        CyberQ

      scottranda One of the neat things about baking bread is that bread that doesn't come out exactly the way you want it normally still tastes great. Enjoy the journey - and the bread.

      Comment

      • scottranda
        Charter Member
        • May 2015
        • 1472
        • Charlotte, NC

        Question I thought of: I obviously need to pre heat the pizza stone. Should I pre heat the SS mixing bowl too?

        Comment


        • MBMorgan
          MBMorgan commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't see Breadhead on the site so I'll just recommend that you preheat everything ... SS bowl included.

        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          +1^ what Mbmorgan said...πŸ‘

        • scottranda
          scottranda commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks to you both! I def didn't preheat my SS mixing bowl. Next time I will.
      • Breadhead
        Banned Former Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 1

        There's been some questions about how and when to degass your dough. Here's a good video of that process. This lady is a renowned sourdough bread baker that's come up with some innovative techniques.

        She degasses her dough, slightly, after the bulk fermentation process, keeping as much of the gasses as possible but eliminating the possibility of the big mouse holes.

        I will say this... The twrilling motion she uses for final shaping is less aggressive than Chef Jacob's tension pulls, which is less aggressive than MY tension pulls.πŸ‘ Personally... I want my dough to ALMOST tear at the top skin, before I put it into the banneton for final proofing. That gives me maximum oven spring, an open and airy crumb, makes it easier to score, and pretty ears from my scoring.πŸ‘
        https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLD...&v=JfvYZMo_XYo

        Comment

        • chudzikb
          Charter Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 181

          I am with breadhead on this one, I really do the tension pull till it is so tight it seems like it wants to pop. It seems to work for me. Only time I got big pockets is when I am rushing the proofing because I wanted to go to sleep. I suspect some things are more important to me than good bread, sleep is right up there.

          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            Tight final shaping makes the difference between a so, so loaf and a fantastic loaf. That's why I say I'm more agressive on the tension pulls than even Chef Jacob. If my final shaped dough has some small blisters on the skin... All the better.πŸ‘
        • MBMorgan
          Club Member
          • Sep 2015
          • 5614
          • Colorado
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          This week's science experiment: A repeat of my previous 75% hydration pre-ferment white bread boule (#344 in this thread). For that loaf, I allowed it to proof almost to the point of being over-proofed. This time, I went the other way and allowed it to proof until it passed the poke test ... but just barely.

          You can see that oven spring was noticeably less than before (no surprise) and that the crumb wasn't quite as light or airy although it was pretty darn nice. Like the previous boule, I proofed it seam side down in the banneton then baked it seam side up with no docking at all. I had a bit of a problem when turning the loaf out of the banneton as it decided to stick to the linen liner (my fault, not the dough's). It took a bit of gentle coaxing with a plastic bowl scraper to get it free and, thankfully, damage was minimal. That said, I think that what little damage was done to the seam allowed steam to escape more gradually during baking rather than the loaf basically building up pressure then bursting along an undamaged seam to produce the nice "explosive" effect.

          The flavor of the final product was once again awesome ... with just the right amount of sourdough tanginess.

          Fresh out of the oven:
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Loaf 20160913 - 2.JPG
Views:	12
Size:	1.85 MB
ID:	221190

          Sliced and ready to serve:
          Click image for larger version

Name:	Loaf 20160913 Sliced - 5.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	1.76 MB
ID:	221191

          Comment


          • Ray
            Ray commented
            Editing a comment
            Mbmorgan Awesome!
        • RonB
          Club Member
          • Apr 2016
          • 10805
          • Near Richmond VA
          • Weber Performer Deluxe
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            Pizza insert
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            Smokenator 1000
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            2 Thermapens
            Chefalarm
            Dot
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            CyberQ

          That's a great looking boule - both the crust and crumb.

          Comment

          • Ray
            Ray
            Charter Member
            • Sep 2014
            • 222
            • Central IN
            • Ò€‹Green Mountain Davy Crockett pellet grill/smoker
              Weber Summit Gas grill
              Masterbuilt 30" electric smoker
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              Thermapen
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              Favorite beer: Fuller's ESB
              Favorite cheap beer: Old Chub or Robert the Bruce if they are ever on sale.
              Favorite wine: Cabernet Savignon, some Super Tuscans

            Breadhead do you perform the float test on your starter before every loaf that you bake? or do you just look for the starter to double in size in 8-12 hours after feeding?

            Comment


            • Breadhead
              Breadhead commented
              Editing a comment
              I do the float test EVERY single time I use my starter to make bread. I can tell by sight that it's going to pass but it's on my check list... So it must be done.πŸ‘ Get to know exactly when your starter peaks though. It's more active at that point. Your starter can be weak and still pass the float test.
              Last edited by Breadhead; September 15th, 2016, 06:31 PM.
          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 1

            [QUOTE=Mbmorgan;n221189]This week's science experiment: A repeat of my previous 75% hydration pre-ferment white bread boule (#344 in this thread). For that loaf, I allowed it to proof almost to the point of being over-proofed. This time, I went the other way and allowed it to proof until it passed the poke test ... but just barely.

            You can see that oven spring was noticeably less than before (no surprise) and that the crumb wasn't quite as light or airy although it was pretty darn nice. Like the previous boule, I proofed it seam side down in the banneton then baked it seam side up with no docking at all. I had a bit of a problem when turning the loaf out of the banneton as it decided to stick to the linen liner (my fault, not the dough's). It took a bit of gentle coaxing with a plastic bowl scraper to get it free and, thankfully, damage was minimal. That said, I think that what little damage was done to the seam allowed steam to escape more gradually during baking rather than the loaf basically building up pressure then bursting along an undamaged seam to produce the nice "explosive" effect.

            The flavor of the final product was once again awesome ... with just the right amount of sourdough tanginess.

            Mbmorgan ... Great loaf, this one.

            The rise... If you compare the 2 loaves post #344 and this one, the only difference is the crown on that one was slightly higher because the seam opened up better. If you compare them from the bottom up, they both got pretty good oven spring.

            The crumb... If I had to pick between the first loaf and this one, I'll take this one.

            Baking with the seam side up. Hmmm... For me, It might be fun as an experiment, once.πŸ€” I think scoring/docking your dough is half of the fun and the majority of the creative part of making a beautiful loaf of bread. I know the most exciting time of the baking process is waiting 20 minutes to remove you SS bowl or your cast iron lid to see what kind of oven spring you got and seeing how your ears opened up on your crust. Maybe that just me though.πŸ™„

            The poke test... There's only about a 15 minute window between under proofed and over proofed dough in a 72Β° kitchen. I start poking mine early because I want proofing perfection. As soon as that dough springs half way back... It's going in the oven.

            Dough sticking to the liner of your banneton. Use rice flour, don't mix it with other flour. Coat your liner and the surface of your dough you're going to put against the liner. Use slightly more rice flour than you think you need, there's NOTHING worse than your dough sticking to the banneton. When you remove your dough from the banneton brush the excess flour off with a soft paint brush. Then dock it, spray it with water and put it in the oven.

            Just the right tanginessπŸ‘

            Good loaf... The next one will be easier and better I bet.
            Last edited by Breadhead; September 16th, 2016, 07:41 AM.

            Comment


            • MBMorgan
              MBMorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              And by "my fault, not the dough's" I mean that right after lowering the dough into the banneton I thought to myself "but first dust the banneton liberally with rice flour ... CRAP!!!"

            • Breadhead
              Breadhead commented
              Editing a comment
              We've all done it before...😑 I've had dough stick so tightly to the banneton before I had to peel it out and throw it away.😑😑😑
          • scottranda
            Charter Member
            • May 2015
            • 1472
            • Charlotte, NC

            So, let's talk additives... in terms of things you add to your boule/dough/bread. Do you just add things to it? I love sunflower seed kernels and grains. Can I take any basic sourdough recipe you have here on the Pit, and add a few flavors/seeds to it?

            Chef Jacob Burton I saw Jacob's pancetta bread. Looks like he just added it in the sourdough recipe (and reduced the salt). Is it just that easy?

            Comment

            • RonB
              Club Member
              • Apr 2016
              • 10805
              • Near Richmond VA
              • Weber Performer Deluxe
                SNS
                Pizza insert
                Rotisserie
                Smokenator 1000
                Cookshack Smokette Elite
                2 Thermapens
                Chefalarm
                Dot
                lots of probes.
                CyberQ

              You can add just about anything you want. Just be aware of the moisture level in the additive(s). If something is very wet, you might have to reduce liquids. If they might absorb liquids, you may have to add. And watch the flavors too. If you like toasted sunflower seeds, you can toast raw seeds. I suggest not using toasted seeds for sprinkling on top of the dough - they may overcook. You should also watch the salt on the seeds. If I have salted seeds, I will soak them in water then drain and rinse before adding. Make sure you shake excess moisture off the seeds too.

              Comment


              • Breadhead
                Breadhead commented
                Editing a comment
                +1^... What RonB said.

              • scottranda
                scottranda commented
                Editing a comment
                Thx to you both. I'm going to do a few more basic loaves. Then start to add items. Need more practice though. Pretty sure I'm doing a loaf this weekend.

              • Breadhead
                Breadhead commented
                Editing a comment
                I would suggest staying to the basics until you've made a perfect loaf of bread. Refining all your hands on techniques that will give the perfect loaf and understanding why you got it are important. From that point on... Let your imagination be your guide.πŸ‘
            • chudzikb
              Charter Member
              • Dec 2014
              • 181

              I'll say it AGAIN, you guys are crazy if you are not throwing some fresh chopped garlic in your dough. It is that good. Only the fresh stuff...

              Comment


              • Breadhead
                Breadhead commented
                Editing a comment
                Kalamata olives & your favorite cheese is good too.πŸ‘

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