How to make sourdough bread...

[Breadhead]

Question for those who have made Forkish's Field Blend #2. What to do with extra levain? His recipe calls for a whole lot to be mixed, but you only use 360 grams in the recipe. What to do with the rest??

Hmmm... Mr Forkish & Chef Jacob both call for lots of grams of flour to be wasted.😡 Both of them use huge quantities of flour and water to build a new starter/levain. I really don't get it.🙈

Ken Forkish on the Field Blend #2 recipe wants you to use 100 grams of your regular starter/levain to develop the levain/starter for this dough. He adjusted the flour content some and the hydration content some, but if you go by the FINAL DOUGH recipe and the bakers percentage, where it says the starter/levain is 20% of the weight of the flour... everything gets easier. If I were going to make that dough I would treat the LEVAIN on page 159 as a pre-ferment. I would reduce everything by 50%.

• Mature, active levain 50g
• White flour 200g
• Whole wheat flour 50g
• Water 200g

That way... I'm only going to throw away 140g of levain.

Keep your FINAL DOUGH recipe and the bakers percentage exactly the same and keep your Levain at 20% of the weight of the flour and all is exactly as Mr Forkish suggested.

I have no idea why he made his pre-ferment/Levain, as he calls it, so huge.

[Thunder77]

Thanks a lot Breadhead! I was hoping that I wasn't the only one wondering why I was throwing out a metric ton of starter. I guess I could have figured it out myself if I wasn't so lazy. 😜

[Breadhead]

I've been scratching my head since you asked that question. I have no clue why Mr Forkish made 1000 grams of the levain and only used 360 grams of it in his final recipe. I had to get the book out to figure it out. Make waffles with the leftover levain...😜

[MBMorgan]

Hmmm... Mr Forkish & Chef Jacob both call for lots of grams of flour to be wasted.😡 Both of them use huge quantities of flour and water to build a new starter/levain. I really don't get it.🙈

Ken Forkish on the Field Blend #2 recipe wants you to use 100 grams of your regular starter/levain to develop the levain/starter for this dough. He adjusted the flour content some and the hydration content some, but if you go by the FINAL DOUGH recipe and the bakers percentage, where it says the starter/levain is 20% of the weight of the flour... everything gets easier. If I were going to make that dough I would treat the LEVAIN on page 159 as a pre-ferment. I would reduce everything by 50%.

• Mature, active levain 50g
• White flour 200g
• Whole wheat flour 50g
• Water 200g

That way... I'm only going to throw away 140g of levain.

Keep your FINAL DOUGH recipe and the bakers percentage exactly the same and keep your Levain at 20% of the weight of the flour and all is exactly as Mr Forkish suggested.

I have no idea why he made his pre-ferment/Levain, as he calls it, so huge.

I recently spent some time reverse-engineering the Forkish Levain and discovered that all he really does is this:

• Starting the Levain:
  • For the first 4 days, maintain a 100% hydration Poolish using only WW flour. Dump 75% each day and feed.
  • On day 5, dump 85% and then introduce white BF so that the BF/WW flour ratio is 80/20. Adjust hydration to 82%.
• Maintaining the Levain:
  • Every day, dump 90% then feed with an 80/20 mix of BF/WW. Maintain 82% hydration.

The spreadsheet spells it all out ... AND ... in rows 28 - 35 shows how to start and maintain a much more manageable 200 gram Forkish-style Levain:

[Thunder77]

Wow, I had no idea I was going to stir things up with one question!

[MBMorgan]

Pequod - That's good to know ... thanks! My wife's the pizza maven around here so I haven't bought his pizza book ... yet! I concur with continuing with conversion of every formula to use a 100% hydration poolish.

[Breadhead]

I think the great value of Ken Forkish' contribution has to do with his techniques for high hydration dough. His recipes can be converted easily and are very similar to all other sourdough recipes. I like his choice of flours to effect the flavor profile too. He and Chef Jacob are my bread guys.

[Ptrbve]

I made my first sourdough bread about a month ago. I was happy with it. However it was beginners luck. My next few tasted good but did not rise correctly or look as good. I have used the starter for ciabatta also and been pleased. It makes a great pizza! Tonights sourdough tastes great and is my best looking and springing (in my opinion,
anyway). Thank you Breadhead.
Still room for improvement, though!

[Ptrbve]

Thank you.

[Thunder77]

That's a beautiful job!

[Steve Vojtek]

WOW!!! 👏👏👏
My hat of to you...

[scottranda]

I've had my bread issues recently. Deflation! This week, I had some issues where I started it the night before, but forgot I was going to be gone the whole day. So, the next morning, I woke up, put in the rest of the ingredients (minus the salt) and had a 9 hour autolyse in the fridge (slow things down). Then, I added salt, I formed the dough and shaped it and put it in my banneton for an overnight. Woke up and the yeast must've been active bc the dough rose a decent amount in the fridge. I was afraid of overproofing, so without it passing the poke test (and the dough cold), I put it in the oven. Deflation. My ego too.

Anything I should've done differently? I was really thrown off by not being home to make the bread. I did my best given the circumstances.

[Steve Vojtek]

Here you go...💊

[RonB]

Willy - both.

[Breadhead]

This will help you understand why bread deflates... https://stellaculinary.com/cooking-v...ugh-collapsing

[Willy]

scottranda I have been doing my SD overnight in the fridge--straight after mixing (with salt!), kneading, and doing stretch and folds. I have come to think (YMMV!!!!) that the "secret" is to use cold water and never let the yeast have a chance to get started. It's the bacteria and the natural enzymes in the flour, not the yeast, that make most of the flavors. I observe that once my dough is beginning to rise well, refrigeration temperatures will not be able to slow it down enough to last overnight without over-proofing. Now, once morning comes and I take the cold dough out of the fridge, it will take hours for it to start to rise again. I have even put the covered dough bowl out in the late morning sun to kick-start it--at which point it WILL take off quickly once warmed.

If I do the pre-ferment at room temperature and then try to refrigerate the formed loaf (in banneton), the refrigerated loaf will have over-risen by AM. Also, I am most definitely not concerned about salt inhibiting the rise. Salt will (I read) slow things down (sometimes a good thing), but it WILL NOT stop the rise. I do not see any difference between slowing the initial rise or the final rise. The microbes are chewing sugars and producing tasty byproducts the whole time and they cannot tell if the dough has risen once or twice. I am convinced (well, almost) that the total fermentation time is all that really matters.

Again, YMMV. Happy bread baking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Breadhead]

I just cancelled my Pit Club account. Someone ought to takeover control of this thread. The best person for that duty would be Mbmorgan in my opinion. I'm quite pleased all of you guys enjoyed this thread and love making bread like I do.

[Steve Vojtek]

This is very sad. The Pit won't be the same without you Breadhead . Thank you for everything .
I will never forget you.....my bread Mentor...now I have to find a tissue..

[vandy]

I sure do hate to hear that but I am sure you have your reasons and wish you well in your future endeavors what ever they may be. Thank you for all you have done for this group!

[Ptrbve]

Sorry to hear that Breadhead. You will be missed. Thank you for inpiring me to start baking bread and for sharing your knowledge.

[Thunder77]

A tribute to Breadhead. I have been busy the last two weekends, and unable to make bread. Also, I really haven't had the heart to bake since losing our mentor. But my family has been clamoring for bread, so I baked today.

[Thunder77]

Thank you Breadhead! I owe it all to you and Chef Jacob.

[Breadhead]

I owe it all to Chef Jacob, Ken Forkish and 1000's of hours of reading and watching videos. Bread making is an interesting study that NEVER ends. No one knows it all. I'm pleased to help you guys on your bread making journey.👍

[Ptrbve]

Well done!

[RonB]

That's a great lookin' boule Thunder77

[scottranda]

My bread never has the "flaps" when I score and bake it. Am I scoring wrong or not shaping perfectly? Sometimes I have high hopes it will have the nice ears, but just bleeds open after I bake it.

[Breadhead]

The angle and depth of your knife and the oven spring will determine how your ears open. If you drop your dough into your Dutch Oven before you score it you are restricted to straight up and down cuts that will just spread open.

[Breadhead]

If you're baking your bread on a pizza stone covered by a Stainless Steel mixing bowl... score your dough with your knife at a 35% angle cutting at about 3/8" deep. Then mist your dough with water before transferring it to the pizza stone. You've created a flap that will rise nicely.

[Thunder77]

Try using your scoring blade at an angle to the bread, not straight into it. Also, Right before I put the bread in the banneton to proof, I use my bench knife to make some really tight tension pulls, so that the top of the boule almost, but not quite tears. And the steam phase is important, of course.

[Thunder77]

You're right. I don't always get it, either! I think the key to this one was the cast iron Dutch oven, and plenty of steam for the oven spring.

[Breadhead]

The Dutch Oven is your problem... after dropping your dough in a 500° DO you are limited to straight up and down cuts. You've created a divot that will just spread, not rise. Score your dough at a 35° angle and you've created a flap that will rise nicely during the ovenspring process.

[Thunder77]

FWIW, I score my bread before I put it in the DO. I put the boule on a piece of parchment paper, score it quickly, and plop it in the DO. When the steam phase is done, I pull the parchment out.

[Pequod]

A tribute to Breadhead. I have been busy the last two weekends, and unable to make bread. Also, I really haven't had the heart to bake since losing our mentor. But my family has been clamoring for bread, so I baked today.

Nice boule! So...I don't think Breadhead is gone. Looky here.

[Pequod]

Breadhead - well I'm stupid glad you're back. The Pit wouldn't be The Pit without you.

[Thunder77]

Well, I am also glad you're back! My sourdough bread would not be as good as it is without your help and guidance.

[Breadhead]

Thanks guys...👌 I'm here to help!

[Potkettleblack]

A bit of work in process. MIL in town tomorrow, so making Forkish's walnut bread. Interesting to work the dough with all the nuts in it. Can really feel the pincers method working to distribute them evenly.

[Breadhead]

Your MIL will think you are a real Master bread maker.👍

[Potkettleblack]

First loaf is out of the oven on the cooling rack. This is the bowl one. The one in is the baneton loaf.

[Breadhead]

I like the color of your crust.👍 It looks like you got good ovenspring and your scoring opened nicely. Your MIL is gonna love your bread.😜

[Potkettleblack]

The two loaves and a cutaway of the baneton loaf. This worked great. Dunno about the walnuts, but I was much happier with my boule forming technique and the whole process. This had the best flavor of any bread I've made. I think King Arthur has really come of age.

[Potkettleblack]

Don't own but a hand mixer, but I have dough hooks for it.

[Thunder77]

Two beautiful, stunning loaves! I love the alien-looking bubble on the first one. 😎

[Potkettleblack]

Opened the first loaf today. Less rise, and the alien bubble was a bit of a mouse hole. Probably a bit early for the sweet spot on the proof.

[Michael Brinton]

https://aeon.co/essays/time-to-bake-...ourdough-bread thought you guys would enjoy this...