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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • RonB
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    • Apr 2016
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    • Near Richmond VA
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    jgjeske1 - I had another thought - try adding one or two tablespoons of vital wheat gluten to the recipe. It will help with the rise, but you may have to add a bit more water to compensate.

    Comment

    • Potkettleblack
      Club Member
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      I had another dough fail at bulk fermentation, so I decided to walk before running. Forkish Overnight White, third bread in the book. white flour, water, salt, yeast. Overnight ferment, hour proof, cast iron pot, 475* with lid on for 30 minutes, lid off for 20. Winner.

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      So, the Forkish technique for avoiding blow out and not razoring is to put the seam side up.

      Comment


      • RonB
        RonB commented
        Editing a comment
        Both the crust and crumb look great Potkettleblack. Way to go - er - bake.

      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        Nice looking loaf Potkettleblack ...👍. Your crumb is fantastic!

      • EdF
        EdF commented
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        Ooh, lookie that!
    • Breadhead
      Banned Former Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 0

      Mbmorgan ...

      "Next time, I'm going to try something that Forkish does. Like us, he uses a small amount of levain and lets his dough bulk ferment in the tub overnight ... but at room temperature rather than in the fridge. After 12-14 hours of bulk fermentation, he then forms his loaves and proofs them in a banneton until they pass the poke test, then bakes them."

      Is Mr Forkish doing a pre-ferment with 1/2 of the flour and an equal amount of water, with a little starter? Or is he mixing the entire recipe together and letting it ferment overnight at room temp before forming and final shaping?

      Ive done the pre-ferment with just half of the flour and an equal weight of water with very little starter. I let it ferment for 12/16 hours and then add the rest of the flour and enough water to bring it up to the hydration percentage that I want. I mix that to a shaggy state and autolyse it for a half hour. Then I add the salt and do the slap and folds, stretch and folds and final shaping. Then you can either put it in the fridge for an overnight nap or bake it after final proofing.

      Comment

      • MBMorgan
        Club Member
        • Sep 2015
        • 6168
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        Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
        [USER="8803"]Is Mr Forkish doing a pre-ferment with 1/2 of the flour and an equal amount of water, with a little starter? Or is he mixing the entire recipe together and letting it ferment overnight at room temp before forming and final shaping?
        He has recipes and schedules for both methods ... overnight ferment of the entire recipe at room temp and the pre-ferment you describe. He also describes making quite a large poolish the night before then mixing, fermenting, proofing the next morning over about a 4-5 hr. period. I haven't decided which I'll try next but I'm sure I'll try them all before too long ... in addition to more of yours and Chef Jacob's recipes (must remember to BBQ something soon, too ) ...

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Oh you can do both at the same time grasshopper.😉. For me... Doing a long low and slow cook in the smoker is the perfect time to make bread.👍 Watching a smoker for 12/16 hours is boring!
      • RonB
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        • Apr 2016
        • 12587
        • Near Richmond VA
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        jgjeske1 - another thought, (and I think I am out of thoughts for the week... LOL). I believe that Peter Reinhardt sez in at least one of his books that you will get a higher rise by machine kneading the dough because you get a better mix. All I can say is that I knead by machine until almost done and then finish by hand. That works for me - YMMV

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          I sometimes have been known to mix the dough in my KA mixer up until the kneading is done. Then I put it in a Pyrex mixing bowl for the bulk fermentation. Then I do the stretch & folds, tension tugs and final shaping by hand.😆 Don't tell any one, that's cheating.🙈
      • gcdmd
        Charter Member
        • Sep 2014
        • 1004
        • The Republic of Texas

        From Meathead's article, The Science of Salt:

        "Pickling salt (a.k.a. canning salt) dissolves well in cold water so it is a good choice for brines. It lacks iodine and anti-caking additives, so it is the best choice for pickling."

        Would it also be preferable for bread baking?

        Comment


        • Atalanta
          Atalanta commented
          Editing a comment
          I use pickling salt when Kosher is too "heavy". Don't have any iodized salt in the house. Doesn't seem to have any negative effect on my baking.

        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Interesting... I have never considered that as an option. I use fine grain Sea salt though and it works well for me.
      • JCBBQ
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        Man! You guys are killing me with the pics of your loaves! I'm going to have to start doing this.

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        • MBMorgan
          MBMorgan commented
          Editing a comment
          Hah! That's how I first became entangled with this bread baking bunch ... you're doomed ... doomed, I say!

        • JCBBQ
          JCBBQ commented
          Editing a comment
          Mbmorgan, hahaha uh oh!
      • Breadhead
        Banned Former Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 0

        Originally posted by JCBBQ View Post
        Man! You guys are killing me with the pics of your loaves! I'm going to have to start doing this.
        Welcome to our sourdough bread baking club JCBBQ ...👍

        There's a very short learning curve as you will find by reading the thread. Many have made very nice loaves of bread on their very first try.👍

        This is the way bread was made 1000's of years ago before some chemist figured out how to dry yeast and put it in little 7 gram packets. It used to be that every family had someone that made this type of bread. Now... It's finding a revival after after about a 100 years of becoming a lost craft.

        After you perfect the the processes and techniques you will blow your friends and family's minds with good old fashion Artisan Sourdough bread that they cannot buy anywhere else. Commercial bakers don't make this kind of bread because it takes to long. It slows down their production and they can't make a profit on it.

        The good thing is it's just like BBQ... Very little hands on time goes into making it, it's mostly waiting for something to happen.

        Comment

        • Potkettleblack
          Club Member
          • Jun 2016
          • 1960
          • Beautiful Downtown Berwyn
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            Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something) - it changes

          Breadhead and Mbmorgan This loaf came from a desire to make any damn bread. That desire came from a second consecutive failure during bulk fermentation towards the Overnight Country Blonde from Forkish's book. I decided that, rather than take a third run at it and want to kill something (probably Alain Levain), I'd make one from the first chapter of recipes. Since I didn't like the idea of the 75% overnight whole wheat (and in retrospect, I could have tweaked that down to 25% or whatever the ratio was in Overnight Country Blonde), I went with Overnight White, as it was four basic ingredients, didn't use a pre-ferment or a levain, would be a good first step, like I'd initially planned but never got around to doing.

          At any rate, giving his constant problem with molds and his failure to produce anything, and my upcoming break from heavy carb consumption, I'm gonna put Alain out of his misery tonight. Vaguely sad about it, but he has it coming. Or I do, but I'm not about to put me out of my misery over 20# of flour with no bread.

          My next step, likely for Thanksgiving, will be to do one of the pre-ferment recipes from the book, either one of the poolish ones or one of the biga ones. ONWB, the loaf above gave me more confidence in working my way up through the book, rather than starting towards the back. So, yeah, a preferment without the long attachment of a full starter, that's the next project. Then, the next bread will involve a new starter, who will be named Homer (because of the D'oh/dough double entendre), and some commercial yeast. And bread #4, assuming #'s 2 & 3 work as well as #1 did, will be a pure levain bread. Baby steps.

          But yeah, BH, this was very satisfying and I got a very nice crumb... moist and light at the same time.

          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm grateful you're enjoying the learning process and not giving up.

            Putting Alain Levain out of his misery...😒 RIP: Alain Levain.😂
        • MBMorgan
          Club Member
          • Sep 2015
          • 6168
          • Colorado
          • > Weber Genesis EP-330
            > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
            > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
            > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
            > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
            to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
            > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
            > Thermoworks Smoke
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            > Thermoworks Thermapen
            > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
            > Anova sous vide circulator
            > Searzall torch
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            > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
            > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
            > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

          Originally posted by Potkettleblack View Post
          This loaf came from a desire to make any damn bread.
          I feel your pain (and yes, pun intended ... sorry). I've had great results with same-day breads but haven't yet worked out how to successfully do an overnight ferment and/or proof yet. An added complication here is the altitude (6300 ft.) ... what fun ...

          Like you, I plan to work systematically through various recipes and schedules until I find one or more that can be successfully adapted to baking in Colorado.

          As a side note, when reading Ken Forkish's book, he said he considered several locations before settling on Portland. I find myself wishing he had gone with Boulder, CO instead because I could simply make the short drive and simply ask him.

          Good luck with the low carb diet. I tried that once (the South Beach diet as I recall) and it ultimately just made me ill. Perhaps you'll have a more positive experience.

          Comment


          • Potkettleblack
            Potkettleblack commented
            Editing a comment
            I have had great success before, losing 30-60 lbs on multiple occasions. And then, life changes or summer arrives.
        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 0

          Mbmorgan ... These videos by Chef Jacob Burton will help you with your high altitude baking. These 3 videos I would suggest viewing them in the order he has them on this page. Watch the first and then scroll down to second, etc.

          https://stellaculinary.com/cooking-v...ce-tips-tricks

          He is in Truckee, Ca and bakes at 6000 feet elevation.

          Comment

          • MBMorgan
            Club Member
            • Sep 2015
            • 6168
            • Colorado
            • > Weber Genesis EP-330
              > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
              > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
              > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
              > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
              to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
              > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
              > Thermoworks Smoke
              > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
              > Thermoworks Thermapen
              > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
              > Anova sous vide circulator
              > Searzall torch
              > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

              > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
              > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
              > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

            Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
            Mbmorgan ... These videos by Chef Jacob Burton will help you with your high altitude baking. These 3 videos I would suggest viewing them in the order he has them on this page. Watch the first and then scroll down to second, etc.

            https://stellaculinary.com/cooking-v...ce-tips-tricks

            He is in Truckee, Ca and bakes at 6000 feet elevation.
            Thanks, Breadhead ... those are indeed good videos and I've watched them several times. Most of the high altitude tweaks are for high fat doughs (cakes, etc.). For lean breads here's what he has to say:

            --------------------------------------
            FOR LEAN DOUGH BREADS

            In my experience, bread recipes don't usually need to be adjusted for altitude. But remember, everything rises faster at altitude, so if you're having issue with your bread, here are a few things to play around with:
            • Because bread will rise and proof faster at altitude due to less atmospheric pressure, try slowing down the fermentation by placing it in a cooler room.
            • Air at altitude is much drier, so be sure to cover your bread with plastic wrap during bulk fermentation and proofing to prevent if from drying out. For more in-depth information on bread baking, listen the Stella Culinary School Podcast starting at episode 19, and then watch the videos in our Bread Baking Video Index.
            • If you're using commercial yeast and you find your bread is rising too quickly at altitude, try reducing the total amount of yeast by 25%.
            • If you're having issues with your bread drying out at altitude, raise the hydration rate by about 5% based on the baker's percentage.
            --------------------------------------

            He doesn't quantify the effect of altitude on room temp rising/proofing (but I bet he could) ... but I think I've got one sorted out. It's those overnight ferments and/or proofs that are still giving me fits. I'll definitely resort to posting a question or two over at StellaCulinary.com to see what he or the other breadheads have to say.

            Thanks again!

            Comment


            • Breadhead
              Breadhead commented
              Editing a comment
              Great idea! I ask Chef Jacob questions all the time. He always explains them in a way that I can understand. He is a great teacher. He's making lots of bread at 6000 feet. I bet he can walk you through it quickly.
              Last edited by Breadhead; September 6, 2016, 02:23 PM.
          • MBMorgan
            Club Member
            • Sep 2015
            • 6168
            • Colorado
            • > Weber Genesis EP-330
              > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
              > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
              > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
              > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
              to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
              > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
              > Thermoworks Smoke
              > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
              > Thermoworks Thermapen
              > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
              > Anova sous vide circulator
              > Searzall torch
              > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

              > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
              > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
              > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

            Pretty happy with today's loaf:

            This one is pretty much all Ken Forkish ... recipe, technique, and schedule. It's a White Bread with Poolish pre-ferment. The only change I made to his recipe is the poolish. He likes to make up a fresh all-white flour poolish the night before ... but I have a perfectly healthy 200g Chef Jacob-style 1/2 white + 1/2 whole wheat poolish that I adapted to the Forkish recipe. Basically, the afternoon before, instead of the usual dump-and-feed, I simply divided my poolish (Winnie) into two 100g portions. One got fed as usual and put back on the counter while the other got fed enough white bread flour and water to make the 500g poolish called for by the recipe. As a result, unlike Mr. Forbish, my loaf contains 50g of WW flour from the poolish instead of the 100% white in his. The resulting 75% hydration loaf is pretty awesome. Not surprisingly, at high altitude here in Colorado it bulk fermented and proofed quite a bit faster than it would have at sea level. Bulk fermentation took less than 3 hours and proofing slightly less than 1. Oven spring was excellent, the crumb is pretty darn light and airy, and just enough of the sourdough tang comes through to let you know what you're eating. You may notice that instead of scoring the loaf, I tried the Forkish technique of baking seam side up to control blowout ... and it worked perfectly.

            And now the pics:

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            Last edited by MBMorgan; September 7, 2016, 04:40 PM.

            Comment


            • MBMorgan
              MBMorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              Pequod - no scoring at all. Proofed seam side down in the banneton then baked seam side up and let nature take its course. I like it ...

            • RonB
              RonB commented
              Editing a comment
              This one looks great Mbmorgan.

            • scottranda
              scottranda commented
              Editing a comment
              Is the Forkish book on bread worth it? How many recipes do they have in there? Mbmorgan
          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 0

            Fantastic loaf Mbmorgan ... Great post & pictures too. I love, love love the color of your crust too. I can feel the crunch of the crust in my mouth just looking at it. What was the total weight of the flour in your recipe? High altitude fermentation and proofing is really cool. Great job.

            Comment

            • MBMorgan
              Club Member
              • Sep 2015
              • 6168
              • Colorado
              • > Weber Genesis EP-330
                > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
                > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
                > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
                > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
                to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
                > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
                > Thermoworks Smoke
                > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
                > Thermoworks Thermapen
                > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
                > Anova sous vide circulator
                > Searzall torch
                > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

                > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
                > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
                > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

              Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
              Fantastic loaf Mbmorgan ... Great post & pictures too. I love, love love the color of your crust too. I can feel the crunch of the crust in my mouth just looking at it. What was the total weight of the flour in your recipe? High altitude fermentation and proofing is really cool. Great job.
              Thanks! Total flour was 500g. 11g salt and 3/8 tsp (.2g) commercial yeast in the final mix (not the poolish ... that was pure Winnie).

              Comment


              • Breadhead
                Breadhead commented
                Editing a comment
                Forkish is a creative guy...👍

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            Track Up To Six Temperatures At Once

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            FireBoard Drive 2 is an updated version of a well-received product that sets the standard for performance and functionality in the wireless food thermometer/thermostatic controller class.

            Click here for our review of this unique device


            The Cool Kettle With The Hinged Hood We Always Wanted

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            Napoleon's NK22CK-C Charcoal Kettle Grill puts a few spins on the familiar kettle design. In fact, the hinged lid with a handle on the front, spins in a rotary motion 180 degrees. It's hard to beat a Weber kettle, but Napoleon holds its own and adds some unique features to make the NK22CK-C a viable alternative.

            Click here for more about what makes this grill special


            Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

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            Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

            Click here to read our detailed review and to order