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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Pequod
    Club Member
    • Apr 2016
    • 439
    • Crozet, VA
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      • Komodo Kamado 23" Ultimate
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    Mine is in that dormant, smells like sweat socks phase. Should perk up in a few more days, then Sourdough leavened Neapolitan Pizza time!

    Comment


    • chudzikb
      chudzikb commented
      Editing a comment
      For the love of God, you had better write that one up once you do it and do it successfully!
  • Breadhead
    Banned Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 1

    chudzikb commented
    July 18th, 2016, 04:21 PM
    For the love of God, you had better write that one up once you do it and do it successfully!

    chudzikb ...

    If you have a Kamado, or any cooking device you can bake at 800Β°, knowing what you know about sourdough you can do that cook, easy peasy.

    Just take any Neapolitan pizza dough recipe and eliminate the commercial yeast. Then put 1 tablespoon of your starter in the water, mix it around a little and put your 00 flour in. Mix it to the shaggy state and rest it for a half hour. Mix your salt in and let it rest another half hours. Do slap and folds until it passes the window pane test. Do some tension tug to tighten it up, portion it into 300 grams sizes and do more tension tugs to tighten your dough ball up. Put your dough balls on a half shelf lined with parchment paper you've sprayed with non stick oil. Spray your dough balls with non stick oil and wrap the sheet pan with plastic wrap and put it in the fridge to delay the fermentation for 24/48/72/96 hours. The longer you wait to bake it the better it will taste.

    Try it...πŸ‘

    Comment

    • chudzikb
      Charter Member
      • Dec 2014
      • 182

      I started my own mix of recipes for pizza dough. Using, again, a combination of techniques. Used bread flower, but, not a mixer. Used meatheads ingredient list, with less sugar. Worked the dough not unlike sourdough techniques, and used the stretch and rotate method of Chef Jacob. Results? Not bad at all, I was actually pretty impressed. Temps are easily into the 600's if not higher on my pizza stone. Takes about 4-5 minutes to cook. I could not for the life of me get it to roll into a ball like Chef Jacob does with ease. I was a bit annoyed by that, but, managed nonetheless. Did let it double in size initially, worked it and then let it sit in the refrigerator in a covered pan. Then took out and let proof again before working it again to form the actual pizzas. Was much easier to work in the end than any other dough I have made. And the wife and kids said it was good, if not great, and held up much better to the toppings.
      ​It was kind of fun to do it a little different and incorporate elements of several recipes and techniques. I will be fine tuning my techniques, and see if I can find a dough hook for my mixer, because, easier is after all, easier!

      Comment


      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        Cool beans chudzikb ... The pleasing part of your post to me is that you are far enough along in your bread journey that you are no longer a slave to recipes. When you can improvise a dough recipe you've become a real bread maker. I'm proud of you and your quick learning curve in bread making.πŸ‘

      • chudzikb
        chudzikb commented
        Editing a comment
        Not there yet, but, sure working it! I have learned a lot, but, am by no means a master of the medium yet.
    • Breadhead
      Banned Former Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 1

      chudzikb ...

      To start being truly independent of others bread recipes you must learn the bakers percentage. That's a critical step.

      Then you have to understand hydration and how it effects everything. You have to understand salt and fat. How and when to add those elements because they are gluten strand inhibitors. There are times you DO want to inhibit gluten development early on but not usually. You have to understand yeast and why it is only a tool you use to decide when your going to bake your bread. Fully understanding the fermentation process and how to use it is a major leap forward too. You can learn all of that on StellaCulinary.com. Plus Chef Jacob is a great mentor to interested Breadhead's. He was me.πŸ‘

      Comment

      • MBMorgan
        Club Member
        • Sep 2015
        • 5739
        • Colorado
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        Second feeding: Winnie the Poolish (WTP) went from a sticky, spongy, gassy mass yesterday to a less gassy, much runnier starter today (with a bit of liquid on top). Now dumped, well fed, and resting quietly.

        Must get back to hunting for the DW's pizza dough recipe in preparation for translation to Baker's Percentage format and ultimately, replacement of her favorite dry yeast with a TBSP of WTP.

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Sounds like your starter is right on track. It will look dead for about a week. Then one morning you'll wake up and check on it and it will be fully bloomed. Just keep dumping & feeding. +10 on bakers percentage!!! That recipe may not exist on paper.😑 She probably has it memorized, in BP format.πŸ‘
      • Thunder77
        Founding Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 2620
        • Halethorpe, MD
        • Weber 26.75" Kettle with SnS. Broil King Baron 5 burner. Akorn Kamado, and Akorn Jr kamado. Primo Oval Junior. Love grilling steaks, ribs, and chicken. Need to master smoked salmon Favorite cool weather beer: Sam Adams Octoberfest Favorite warm weather beer: Yuengling Traditional Lager All-time favorite drink: Single Malt Scotch

        Wow! I watched just two Chef Jacob videos, and I realize that I have been doing sourdough bread incorrectly all these years! I always used to knead and add flour to dough when it stuck to the board. OMG! I love how he uses the the stickiness of the dough to advantage in his techniques. I can see why I would get a lot denser bread than I liked sometimes. I would be kneading it waaay too long. It was some good bread, but I can see how I can be sooooo much better! I never measured anything by weight, so I couldn't have told you whether I had a 100% or 75% hydration starter or dough. I would always rest my multi-grain dough to get good hydration, but never thought it was necessary with plain white flour. I now have to throw out my starter and begin it again. And now that I know the baker's percentage, watch out!

        I now know that I only understood the very basic elements of breadmaking. I know about flour water, yeast and salt, and gluten formation, but that's really it. It's amazing I have baked anything edible.

        If you have the time I highly recommend Stella Culinary podcasts. They are like a college course on breadmaking.

        Comment

        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 1

          Originally posted by jgjeske1 View Post
          Wow! I watched just two Chef Jacob videos, and I realize that I have been doing sourdough bread incorrectly all these years! I always used to knead and add flour to dough when it stuck to the board. OMG! I love how he uses the the stickiness of the dough to advantage in his techniques. I can see why I would get a lot denser bread than I liked sometimes. I would be kneading it waaay too long. It was some good bread, but I can see how I can be sooooo much better! I never measured anything by weight, so I couldn't have told you whether I had a 100% or 75% hydration starter or dough. I would always rest my multi-grain dough to get good hydration, but never thought it was necessary with plain white flour. I now have to throw out my starter and begin it again. And now that I know the baker's percentage, watch out!

          I now know that I only understood the very basic elements of breadmaking. I know about flour water, yeast and salt, and gluten formation, but that's really it. It's amazing I have baked anything edible.

          If you have the time I highly recommend Stella Culinary podcasts. They are like a college course on breadmaking.
          Awesome man! You should get to know Chef Jacob Burton. Tell him Wartface guided you to his website. He is a Master bread baker and he lives to teach.

          My first visit to his website was to learn about the Bakers Percentage. Then In 2 days I devoured ALL of his bread content, podcasts, videos and texts. I completely geeked out on bread for a long while after that.

          As you've learned... If you don't weigh your ingredients for your dough you have NO CLUE what kind of bread is going to come out of your oven.😑 What's worse is if you bake the PERFECT loaf you have no way of knowing how to duplicate it.😑😑

          DO NOT throw out your starter!!! Use 100 grams of it to build your new starter. That's much faster than starting all over. Feed that 100 grams of starter 25 grams of Bread flour, 25 grams WW flour and 50 grams of water. Dump it and feed it once every day and you will have a perfect 100% hydration starter in just a few days.

          You are now a victim of MBMBS... That's "Must Bake More Bread Syndrome". Like MCS there's no cure or 12 step program.😎
          Last edited by Breadhead; July 20th, 2016, 04:25 PM.

          Comment


          • Thunder77
            Thunder77 commented
            Editing a comment
            I have "restarted" my starter, per your directions. It's bubbling a little already. Must have been pretty strong. What do you think I should I make for my first loaf?

          • Thunder77
            Thunder77 commented
            Editing a comment
            Another problem I had. I never gave my starter a name!

          • RonB
            RonB commented
            Editing a comment
            jgjeske1 How about "Bang" for a starter name in honor of the upcoming Olympics.
            Last edited by RonB; July 24th, 2016, 12:44 PM.
        • Michael Brinton
          Club Member
          • May 2016
          • 256

          While waiting for my starter to pass through float test I mixed up a poolish pre-ferment and let it sit overnight. Then I added it into a 70 % hydration dough. Mixing by hand with the slap and fold not only produced great results but was incredibly fun. Let it bulk ferment over night. When I proofed it I took advantage of the hot weather to speed up the process a little. I baked it in my Lodge skillet Dutch oven combo. It came out great. Nice addition to a prime eye of round and mashed potatoes from the garden.
          Can't wait to do it with my starter. Next time I'm going to switch in 20% whole wheat flour.

          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            Good job Mike... Your bread looks great! It's got great color. What temperature did you bake it at? 20% WW is the perfect amount. You can stay at 70Β° hydration with only 20%. If you get much more than 20% you have to increase your hydration some. WW is more thirsty than BF.

            Nice looking meal too.πŸ‘
            Last edited by Breadhead; July 20th, 2016, 04:20 PM.

          • Thunder77
            Thunder77 commented
            Editing a comment
            Mike yer killing me here... πŸ˜œπŸ‘
        • Michael Brinton
          Club Member
          • May 2016
          • 256

          500 on a baking stone. After the twenty minute steaming I inverted the skillet/Dutch oven to keep the bottom from burning. I lowered the oven to 425 because it tends to run hot. I also have discovered something funny about bread baking. The same people who so say, "gosh this meat is too bloody, I like mine grey." Also say, "Oh this bread is kinda dark, did you burn it?" So I will by grades, turn out loaves darker and darker by degrees. It worked with steak, just ever so gradually introduce juicy=pink/dark=flavor. Ha
          I do need some work on scoring. I ordered a lame but have so far been using an opinel pocket knife, I usually don't get the cut through on the first try. But understanding how flexible the bread making process is has got me preparing loaves all week. Things are definitely progressing well.

          Comment

          • RonB
            Club Member
            • Apr 2016
            • 11234
            • Near Richmond VA
            • Weber Performer Deluxe
              SNS
              Pizza insert
              Rotisserie
              Smokenator 1000
              Cookshack Smokette Elite
              2 Thermapens
              Chefalarm
              Dot
              lots of probes.
              CyberQ

            Great looking bread Mike. It looks like it has a crisp and crackly crust and a very nice crumb.

            Comment

            • Breadhead
              Banned Former Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 1

              Originally posted by Michael Brinton View Post
              500 on a baking stone. After the twenty minute steaming I inverted the skillet/Dutch oven to keep the bottom from burning. I lowered the oven to 425 because it tends to run hot. I also have discovered something funny about bread baking. The same people who so say, "gosh this meat is too bloody, I like mine grey." Also say, "Oh this bread is kinda dark, did you burn it?" So I will by grades, turn out loaves darker and darker by degrees. It worked with steak, just ever so gradually introduce juicy=pink/dark=flavor. Ha
              I do need some work on scoring. I ordered a lame but have so far been using an opinel pocket knife, I usually don't get the cut through on the first try. But understanding how flexible the bread making process is has got me preparing loaves all week. Things are definitely progressing well.
              Scoring was the hardest thing for me to learn too. Ordering a real lame is a good move. The step that advanced my scoring to the point I was getting pretty ears was I saw a video where the guy demonstrated holding his lame at a 30Β° angle. He words were, I'm not trying to cut a crevice, I'm trying to create a flap. That did it for me. Another trick I learned on scoring, keep a glass of water next to your dough and dip your lame in it between eat cut. Wet objects won't stick to the dough.

              Light or dark crust? I prefer my sourdough loaves to be darker than grocery store sourdough loaves. I cook to color at the end of the baking process. If your internal temp goes over 203Β° to get a darker crust, it won't hurt your crumb. Cook to color.πŸ‘
              Last edited by Breadhead; July 20th, 2016, 04:57 PM.

              Comment


              • Breadhead
                Breadhead commented
                Editing a comment
                When your crust hardens the evaporation process is stimied. You don't lose internal moisture once your crust browns. I use my Thermapen to check my IT temperature.πŸ‘

              • chudzikb
                chudzikb commented
                Editing a comment
                I go lighter with my color by popular demand of my family. It works...

              • Breadhead
                Breadhead commented
                Editing a comment
                Popular demand ALWAYS wins those discussions.πŸ˜‰
            • Pequod
              Club Member
              • Apr 2016
              • 439
              • Crozet, VA
              • Gear
                • Komodo Kamado 23" Ultimate
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              Breadhead - My starter is close to ready. Will do the float test today. After that would like to keep in fridge and do weekly feedings. What do I do for feedings and what do I do for usage for a refrigerated starter? In other words, do I let it come to room temp before feeding or use? How long? Can I refrigerate immediately after feeding or do I need to let it "munch" at room temp for awhile?

              Comment

              • Breadhead
                Banned Former Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 1

                Pequod ... All good questions.

                When you are getting ready to put it in the fridge... Dump & feed it your normal amount, cover it with plastic wrap or a tightly sealed lid, let it sit on counter top for an hour and then put it in the fridge.

                Using your starter out of the fridge... It is optimal to feed your refrigerated starter every 3 to 5 days. If your travel schedule doesn't allow that and you can only do weekly feedings, you will be fine. However... Once you take it out of the fridge you need to feed it 1 to 3 times before using it. Once it passes the float test you are ready to use it to levin a loaf of bread. If you fed it every 3-5 days 1 feeding would probably do it. 7 days in the fridge will probably require 2 or 3 feedings to make it strong again.

                It sounds like you are right on track. You will be able to bake your first loaf of sourdough bread soon.πŸ‘ I can't wait to see your first loaf.πŸ˜‰
                Last edited by Breadhead; July 23rd, 2016, 08:39 AM.

                Comment

                • Breadhead
                  Banned Former Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 1

                  jgjeske1 commented
                  July 23rd, 2016, 12:38 PM
                  I have "restarted" my starter, per your directions. It's bubbling a little already. Must have been pretty strong. What do you think I should I make for my first loaf?

                  jgjeske1 ...

                  I will recommend that you make this loaf of bread. It's basic and the technique that Chef Jacob demonstrate are extremely effective. Once you master those techniques you will be a sourdough bread expert. Watch this video many times before mixing your first batch of dough. Imbed those techniques in your mind and you will produce the PERFECT loaf of bread on your very first attempt.πŸ‘
                  https://stellaculinary.com/cooking-v...ourdough-bread

                  commented
                  July 23rd, 2016, 12:39 PM
                  Another problem I had. I never gave my starter a name!

                  Party foul...😑 No wonder he died. He felt neglected and unloved.πŸ™„

                  Good luck... I can't wait to see your first loaf of sourdough bread.😎
                  Last edited by Breadhead; July 23rd, 2016, 12:54 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Pequod
                    Pequod commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Breadhead - Chef Jacob's recipe calls for starting at a heat soaked 500F and then turning down to 425-450F after the first 20 minutes. What do you recommend for a heat soaked Kamado?

                  • Breadhead
                    Breadhead commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Those are the right cooking temps for both your kitchen oven or your Kamado. I use the 500Β° temp and then turn it down to 450Β°. Take your top vent off so you can watch it brown.
                • Pequod
                  Club Member
                  • Apr 2016
                  • 439
                  • Crozet, VA
                  • Gear
                    • Komodo Kamado 23" Ultimate
                    • Komodo Kamado 32" Big Bad
                    • Medium Konro

                  And we have liftoff. Bob be a-floatin'!

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Comment


                  • Breadhead
                    Breadhead commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Woohoo... That's a pretty sight.πŸ‘

                    Time to make some bread.πŸ˜†

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