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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Pequod
    Club Member
    • Apr 2016
    • 393
    • Fairfax Station, Virginia
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    scottranda

    Thermal mass. 30 pounds of cast iron and steel so that we can quickly turn 350 grams of water into steam. This is an adaptation of the method advocated in the book "Bouchon Bakery", which suggests using 10 lbs of river rocks, 10 lbs of steel chain, and a hotel pan to achieve similar. If I had a larger KK (some day!), I would use another spool of chain and 50% more water.

    Comment

    • Breadhead
      Banned Former Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 1

      Here's an idea for you guys that like baking your loaves in a cast iron Dutch oven, which I think is a great way to bake bread.

      This item is upside down. The skillet is the bottom and the Dutch oven is the top.πŸ™„

      The benefit of this setup is that its much much easier to transfer your dough onto the skillet instead into a Dutch oven. You use the Dutch oven as the lid.

      This makes scoring your dough much easier too.
      https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JKG9M/?tag=amazi0a8-20

      What do you think?

      Comment


      • Pequod
        Pequod commented
        Editing a comment
        I've done simultaneous, identical loaves of Forkish 500g flour loaves, one in 3.2 qt combo cooker, other in 5qt DO. The results were identical. Look up Tartine Bread. You'll find this is the cooker they use.

      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        RonB ... yes that ones a better size. I'd like to find a 7 quart like this actually. I'm going to look around to see if ones available.

      • MBMorgan
        MBMorgan commented
        Editing a comment
        Interesting and, by coincidence, timely post. This weekend I plan to bake a loaf (boule) on a 14x14x.25" baking steel and use the inverted 7 qt. DO as the "lid". Lots of CI thermal mass and I can use a pizza peel, too! Easy scoring and no more scorched knuckles!
    • Thunder77
      Founding Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 2481
      • Halethorpe, MD
      • Weber 22.5" Kettle with SnS Brinkmann 5 burner gasser. Akorn Kamado, and Akorn Jr kamado. Love grilling steaks, ribs, and chicken. Need to master smoked salmon Favorite cool weather beer: Sam Adams Octoberfest Favorite warm weather beer: Yuengling Traditional Lager All-time favorite drink: Single Malt Scotch

      I am so happy right now! 😎 I had off work today, so before my doctors appointment, I slapped together a quick preferment. 200g starter, 600g water, and 450g flour. I used a lot of starter, since I wanted a shorter preferment. 9:46am left it to bubble away. 1pm arrived home and added 450g flour. 30 minutes autolyse, and added 23g of salt. I used a different method to start the mixing process. I skipped the bread machine step. And I am glad I did! I started mixing the dough ala Trevor Wilson, the Rubaud Method. After the dough came together, I turned it out and did my slap and folds until it passed the windowpane test. I then proceeded to stretch and fold, per Chef Jacob. After bulk fermentation I had roughly 1440 grams of dough. I made a 1000g batard, and a 440 gram mini boule. This bread is amazing! I finally got the elusive open crumb I have been striving for. And for a 70% dough, the crumb is super moist, and the crust is crackling good! In the space of 1/2 hour, the family and I devoured about 3/4 of the batard I baked.

      Sorry to ramble on, but I just had to share my happiness! 😎
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Thunder77; November 29th, 2016, 09:29 PM.

      Comment


      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        There you go... you did it! Don't it feel good when you get a loaf that's so pretty with an open crumb and tastes so good. You've definitely got MBMBS...πŸ˜†

      • Thunder77
        Thunder77 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I have got it bad!
    • RonB
      Club Member
      • Apr 2016
      • 10646
      • Near Richmond VA
      • Weber Performer Deluxe
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        lots of probes.
        CyberQ

      Congrats on some great looking bread jgjeske1 .

      Comment


      • Thunder77
        Thunder77 commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you! 😎
    • scottranda
      Charter Member
      • May 2015
      • 1410
      • Charlotte, NC

      Calculating the EXACT cost of making your bread at home:

      I set up a spreadsheet (because I love spreadsheets) to calc the exact cost of making bread!

      Here's what I came up with:

      1 bag of flour (weight): 2270g
      Bread flour used for 1 loaf: 500g
      1 bag of flour (cost): $3.29
      Cost of flour for 1 loaf: $0.72

      1 jug of water (weight): 3792g
      Water used for 1 loaf: 350g (70% hydration)
      1 jug of water (cost): $0.97
      Cost of water for 1 loaf: $0.09

      1 box of Kosher salt (weight): 1360g
      Salt used for 1 loaf: 10g
      1 box of salt (cost): $2.49
      Cost of salt for 1 loaf: $0.02

      TOTAL COST OF 500 GRAMS @ 70% HYDRATION BREAD: $0.83

      Let me know what you think!

      Comment


      • scottranda
        scottranda commented
        Editing a comment
        I think Santa's workshop already made mine square πŸ˜ƒ

      • Huskee
        Huskee commented
        Editing a comment
        I wonder what the average oven uses to bake a loaf (gas or elec $)... I'm sure next to nothing, but you may need to add another $0.10 to 0.20 into that loaf.

      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        That's a valid point Huskee – I bake most of my bread on my BGE. It takes about 45 minutes to preheat the baking stone to 500Β° and about 35 minutes to bake a loaf of bread. I fill my kick ash basket full and after that process I have about 40% of the lump UN burned. I use about $1.50 of lump.
    • Breadhead
      Banned Former Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 1

      Originally posted by scottranda View Post
      When shaping your dough, when is it appropriate to wet vs flour your hands? I'm assuming all high hydration you use wet? When do you flour?
      Usually by the time the dough is ready for final shaping the gluten development makes things less sticky. Personally I try not to use any flour for final shaping. I want my dough to drag on the work surface so it will tighten up during the tension tugs. I keep a slight amount of water on my hands if I need to so they do not stick to the dough. I don't want flour or water on the work surface because the dough will slide on the surface, not drag to create tension.

      Mbmorgan 's method of using his bench scraper is very good for high hydration sticky dough. For high hydration dough I'll use a small amount of flour on one side of my work bench and start the shaping on that side. Then for the tension tugs I'll move the dough over to the non floured side so it drags on the surface, not slide.

      With 65% or 70% hydration dough I can usually FINAL shape that dough without flour or water. I use my bench scraper to lift it off of the dry work bench to do stretch and folds and tension tugs. I will keep just enough water on the scraper so it doesn't stick to the dough.

      Comment

      • Breadhead
        Banned Former Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 1

        Here's the biggest upside down cast iron skillet/Dutch oven combination I've been able to locate. I'm going to pull the trigger on this one.πŸ™ˆ It's definitely an MCS purchase.πŸ™€
        https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EWF5VI/?tag=amazi0a8-20

        Comment


        • RonB
          RonB commented
          Editing a comment
          Breadhead - why not just use your stone or steel and put the dough on that and a large inverted CI pot on top?

        • RonB
          RonB commented
          Editing a comment
          Oops - I just realized this has already been suggested...
      • MBMorgan
        Club Member
        • Sep 2015
        • 5579
        • Colorado
        • > Weber Genesis EP-330
          > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
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          > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
          > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
          to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
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          > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

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          > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
          > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

        Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
        Here's the biggest upside down cast iron skillet/Dutch oven combination I've been able to locate. I'm going to pull the trigger on this one.πŸ™ˆ It's definitely an MCS purchase.
        After thoroughly cleaning and re-seasoning it yesterday, I'm planning to give the baking steel a shot tomorrow. I'll invert the bottom of my 7 qt. DO over it as the "lid" and see what happens. If it works out, there'll one fewer MCS purchase needed. Fingers crossed ...

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Great idea Mbmorgan I see no reason why that won't work really well. Take pictures.πŸ‘
      • MBMorgan
        Club Member
        • Sep 2015
        • 5579
        • Colorado
        • > Weber Genesis EP-330
          > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
          > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
          > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
          > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
          to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
          > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
          > Thermoworks Smoke
          > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
          > Thermoworks Thermapen
          > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
          > Anova sous vide circulator
          > Searzall torch
          > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

          > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
          > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
          > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

        Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
        Here's the biggest upside down cast iron skillet/Dutch oven combination I've been able to locate.
        It shows up as unavailable on Amazon ... but the manufacturer is selling it for $46.99 (20% off) on their website: http://cajuncastiron.com/eshop/10Browse.asp

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for sharing that info...πŸ‘

        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm going to try your method first though. I have a 7 quart DO that will fit over a boule on my pizza stone in my BGE.πŸ‘

        • MBMorgan
          MBMorgan commented
          Editing a comment
          Here's an interesting possibility from Lodge: https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-L8DD3-D...ag=amazi0a8-20
      • Pequod
        Club Member
        • Apr 2016
        • 393
        • Fairfax Station, Virginia
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        An oven loaf of Forkish Field Blend #2, which is 78% hydration with 70% AP, 17.5% whole rye, and 12.5% whole wheat.
        Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1838.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	2.01 MB
ID:	246266

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          Oh my... that's a work of art.πŸ™€ I commend you for turning the dough seam side down and getting creative with your lame. That's truly a beautiful loaf of bread. That could easily qualify to be the front cover of a bread bakers magazine.πŸ‘
          I tip my hat to you Pequod πŸ‘Œ

        • Potkettleblack
          Potkettleblack commented
          Editing a comment
          So, how was it? It looks glorious.

        • Pequod
          Pequod commented
          Editing a comment
          Glorious it was! The rye adds a lot. I've done this one before and it's a favorite.
      • MBMorgan
        Club Member
        • Sep 2015
        • 5579
        • Colorado
        • > Weber Genesis EP-330
          > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
          > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
          > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
          > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
          to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
          > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
          > Thermoworks Smoke
          > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
          > Thermoworks Thermapen
          > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
          > Anova sous vide circulator
          > Searzall torch
          > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

          > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
          > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
          > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

        Found this on the Chefs-Resources.com site today: http://www.chefs-resources.com/kitch...cipe-template/

        With a little modification, the Baker's Recipe spreadsheet looks like it might be really useful. FYI, there's a short video explaining the spreadsheet on the same page.

        EDIT: I've been checking the spreadsheet and have found that some of the oz.-to-gram conversions are off ... so until I've made corrections, use them with a grain of salt (by weight, of course) ...
        Last edited by MBMorgan; December 4th, 2016, 02:09 PM.

        Comment

        • Willy
          Charter Member
          • Apr 2015
          • 1766
          • High Desert of the Great Southwest

          As I get further into this bread thing, I'm beginning to think that the real secret to good sourdough ain't the yeast; it's the bacteria. I am also absolutely convinced that passing the float test is irrelevant ONCE you have an active, well (regularly) fed starter. Mine never passes the float test anymore. It does do so (ALWAYS) within a couple hours of feeding, but by the next AM or PM when I start to make a loaf, it just sinks. ALL of my loaves rise just fine.

          Your comments on both of my thoughts?

          Comment

          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 1

            Originally posted by Willy View Post
            As I get further into this bread thing, I'm beginning to think that the real secret to good sourdough ain't the yeast; it's the bacteria. I am also absolutely convinced that passing the float test is irrelevant ONCE you have an active, well (regularly) fed starter. Mine never passes the float test anymore. It does do so (ALWAYS) within a couple hours of feeding, but by the next AM or PM when I start to make a loaf, it just sinks. ALL of my loaves rise just fine.

            Your comments on both of my thoughts?
            It's interesting to read your thought process... remember baking bread from a sourdough starter was the ONLY way bread could be baked for 1000's of years. This is not new science.

            When you mix flour and water and cover it tightly with plastic wrap... all you've done is start a chemical reaction. There's natural yeast bacteria, 2 different forms, and there's natural sugar attached to the processed flour you put in your starter container with the water. There was probably wild yeast in the bowl, on your hands, in the air in your kitchen as you mixed the flour and water. So... those ingredients start this chemical reaction where the water with the flour to start the fermentation process.

            That fermentation process produces Co2, alcohol and both strains of bacteria. One strain of the bacteria is acidic, the other is more sweet, mild. Combined they are fairly mild. If you intentionally retard the mild bacteria, by putting it in the fridge, where the acidic bacteria thrives, you end up with a more sour/tangy taste.

            So... bacteria = flavor. Bacteria does NOT leaven your dough.😎 Co2 leavan's your dough.
            Definition of leaven
            1. 1a : a substance (as yeast) used to produce fermentation in dough or a liquid; especially : sourdoughb : a material (as baking powder) used to produce a gas that lightens dough or batter
            The Co2 in your starter is the ONLY chemical that rises your dough. Alcohol and the 2 forms of bacteria have no ability to rise the dough, their only participation in the process is to calibrate the flavor of your loaf.

            So... if the Co2 is the raising mechanism we are using to raise our dough then we need to understand gasses and how they work, how the chemical process works.

            When you dump your starter and feed it new flour and water you are restarting the chemical reaction over again. The flour will swallow the water, the bacteria will devour the sugar and produce alcohol and Co2. That process will slowly create the optimal condition for raising and flavoring a loaf of bread. If you try to use that starter before it's produced enough Co2 to raise your dough you will get no rise. Remember... the ONLY chemical in your starter that will allow it to float is Co2.

            So now let's analyze the the value of the float test. Remembering that the ONLY chemical we have in the culture that has anything to do with creating the rising process.

            Think in terms of the min/max process... if your starter won't float an hour after feeding it, that means it hasn't produced enough Co2 yet. Then if your starter will float after 12 hours of feeding that means the chemical reaction has produced a sufficient amount of Co2 to make the culture float, gas floats in water.πŸ‘

            So... because bread making is a science let's just say we want to really nail using our starter at the optimal moment to achieve the best results possible.

            My mentor, Chef Jacob Burton, told me if you really want to make the ultimate loaf of bread, you really have to understand your starter and especially it's timing. How long does it take to reach it's optimal peak and when does it start losing its peak... all directly related to the Co2 content of the culture.

            After your culture peaks with Co2 content it gradually starts to deflate. The more it deflates the longer it takes to rise a batch of dough. It will still work, kind of but you won't achieve the maximum rise and oven spring you would if you timed it right.
            Last edited by Breadhead; December 5th, 2016, 02:08 AM.

            Comment

            • Willy
              Charter Member
              • Apr 2015
              • 1766
              • High Desert of the Great Southwest

              @Breadhead--Agreed that only the yeast causing rising; I should have been more clear. It's the flavor that I was talking about. As long as we have β€œgood” bacteria, our flavor will be fine because the bacteria produce the acetic and lactic acids that we love. The yeast does little more than leaven. Commercial yeast could provide the leavening with no or minimal loss of flavor.
              As for the float test, using starter that doesn’t pass the float test (again, the starter must be a strong one that always does pass), seems to me to be no different than using less starter to begin with. How often do you cut back on starter quantity to delay fermentation/rising? Also, having CO2 in the starter at the beginning has little or no effect on the final product as all the CO2 gets β€œbeaten out” during the slap and fold process. All that counts is the ability going forward to make new CO2.
              Last edited by Willy; December 5th, 2016, 10:30 AM.

              Comment

              • Breadhead
                Banned Former Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 1

                Willy

                No Co2, no rise! Most of the time I use 20 grams or less starter. I do long preferments that require 1% or 2% of the weight of the flour of my starter. If you use a starter that was past it's peak in a preferment it would take longer to rise your dough. Learning your starters activity cycle is very easy and very handy in my opinion. Even though I know by sight if my starter is active... I ALWAYS do the float test, always. I'm looking to see if it floats but just below the water line or does it float above the water line? I prefer above the water line. That tells me I timed it perfectly the starter is at its peak. If it doesn't pass the float test I will not use it.

                Co2 being beaten out during slap and folds. Yes... but the yeast has multiplied so many times by that point it will reproduce the Co2 quickly. That's how you get your final rise after final shaping.

                Comment

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                Professional Steakhouse Knife Set

                masterbuilt gas smoker

                Our founder, Meathead, wanted the same steak knives used by steakhouses such as Peter Luger, Smith & Wollensky, Morton's, Kobe Club, Palm, and many others. So he located the manufacturer and had them stamp our name on some. They boast pointed, temper-ground, serrated, high-carbon stainless-steel, half-tang blades with excellent cutting edge ability. The beefy hardwood handle provides a comfortable grip secured by three hefty rivets. He has machine washed his more than 100 times. They have never rusted and they stay shiny without polishing. Please note that we do not make, sell, or distribute these knives, they just engrave them with our name.

                Click here to read our detailed review and to order


                PK 360 grill

                Is This Superb Charcoal Grill A Kamado Killer?

                The PK-360, with 360 square inches of cooking space, this rust free, cast aluminum charcoal grill is durable and easy to use. Four-way venting means it's easy to set up for two zone cooking with more control than single vent Kamado grills. It is much easier to set up for 2-zone cooking than any round kamado. Beautifully designed and completely portable. Meathead says it is his preferrred grill.

                Click here to read our detailed review of the PK 360

                Click here to order it direct from PK and get a special deal for AmazingRibs.com readers only


                Fireboard: The Ultimate Top Of The Line BBQ Thermometer

                fireboard bbq thermometer

                With the ability to monitor up to six temperatures simultaneously with either Bluetooth or Wifi on your mobile phone, tablet, or computer, Fireboard is the best digital thermometer we’ve tested.

                Click here to read our detailed review


                Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

                Green Mountain Davey Crockett Grill

                Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

                Click here to read our detailed review and to order