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**Steve Vojtek** · June 15, 2015, 04:40 AM

Results of my second try:

First i must mention that new oven i wanted wasn't in stock - they said 5-7 days so i'm still waiting. A while ago i bought a gas powered outdoor pizza oven that can hit 500F - i decided to use that. I've never used it before and learned something - having the dutch oven on the bottom shelf on the pizza stone = not a good idea. The first loaf (basic sourdough) got burned on the bottom. For the second loaf (pre-fermented) i moved in to the middle shelf- not as bad but still had a burned bottom. I think it needs to go on the top shelf or maybe just don't use it for this kind of bread....

First loaf (basic):

I used the same procedure as on my first try except this time my starter knew how to swim - it passed the float test beautifully. Handling the dough was easier than the first time and i think i did a little bit better job of the tension pulls. If you ignore the burnt bottom the results were quite similar except this one sprung a little higher - small improvement. I need to work on getting more colour on top - the new oven should solve that. After cutting off the ' burned end ' it's still a good loaf of bread and will be eaten. Now some pics.

**Breadhead** · June 15, 2015, 05:07 AM

Jon Solberg & DWCowles

Meathead's first comment to me about bread was... I have a fear of flour.

Since he made that comment he has attended a seminar put on by Peter Reinhart... One of the great bread bakers in America. Something tells me Meathead is over coming his fear of flour. Meathead has baked my Brioche hamburger buns himself both in his kitchen, on his Kettle and on his BGE.

Steve Vojtek is a perfect example of how easy it is to learn to bake a really nice loaf of sourdough bread in 1 month. Baking bread is not as complicated as people think it is. Cavemen learned to bake bread long before there was commercial yeast or gas ovens.

Learning to bake bread is easier than learning to smoke a brisket properly.

Baking bread gives you something to do during a 15 hour low and slow cook.

You both ought to give it a try or just make the Brioche dough and make donuts. Everyone likes donuts.

**Steve Vojtek** · June 15, 2015, 05:26 AM

2nd loaf ( pre-fermented ):

It is winter here now ( average 30F night to 60F day - give or take a few degrees ). Although my (16 hr old) pre-ferment got some warmth while i was preparing the first loaf for bulk fermenting ( i put a heater in the kitchen) it still wasn't as active as Breadhead's pic in post #23 in this thread. I still decided to proceed - this is about learning and practising handling the dough etc... i didn't expect a good result - and i didn't get one.
I followed all the steps in #23 and noticed the dough was a lot stickier and much harder to handle but managed to get it really smooth and passed the ' window pane test ' so i proceeded with the 20 min stretch and folds using a tiny amount of flour on my hands to help me. After the third stretch and fold i discovered to my horror a little bowl of pre-measured salt just pushed off to the side. I forgot to add the salt in

!!! So i added the salt and did some more slap and folds and the dough came together nicely - it made a big difference so i started the stretch and folds again. I lost a whole hour there. The rest of it went quite smoothly and the finger push test seemed ok ( although i'm still learning that too so i could've been wrong - practice and repetition ) I decided to put it in the oven and here are the pics:

I will now stick to the basic loaf only for a few weeks - trying to juggle the different steps involved with the two different loafs was a bit much for me - i made mistakes... KISS .. Keep It Simple Student ..

**DWCowles** · June 15, 2015, 10:39 AM

Steve Vojtek I wish you the best of luck on your success in the restaurant business

**Breadhead** · June 16, 2015, 12:27 PM

Steve Vojtek I use these cheap painters buckets for my pre-ferments. I cover it with a clear shower cap. I mark the side of the bucket with a felt marking pen where it is when I'm done mixing it. That way I can easily tell when it has doubled in mass. I pay $5 for these painting buckets. Once it has doubled in mass I just add the remaining ingredients into the bucket. I mix it and autolyse it in the same bucket. Then I take it out of the bucket and start the slap and folds. During the slap and folds and the stretch and fold processes I use my clear glass Pyrex bowl to cover it during the autolyse process. I find this to be inexpensive and easy.

**Steve Vojtek** · June 17, 2015, 05:41 AM

That's a great idea. I've used those before to mix paint. Shower cap is also a good idea - not wasting plastic wrap all the time. On my last bake i used a stainless bowl to cover during autolyse - saw it in your pics. I've wasted a lot of plastic wrap for nothing. I haven't seen any clear bowls in the supermarket - i'll have to go to Kmart for that. I'l be doing another loaf (or two) two days from now - have a few other things to take care of - i will post the results ....

**Breadhead** · June 17, 2015, 10:03 AM

I like seeing bread pictures. How's your dad progressing on his bread journey?

**Steve Vojtek** · June 18, 2015, 07:16 AM

I ordered two banneton's and received them today. One for dad one for me. I've also ordered and received a bowl scraper and a bench scraper and a baker's knife for my dad . My dad asked me today (he works part time in my company) if i made any more sourdough bread and i told him about my last try. Burned bottom and all. He seems keen to try - i will have to go to his place one sunday and show him how to do it.I will give him some of my starter just to speed it up for him.My dad bakes his own bread but uses baker's yeast. He always wanted to do sourdough but just like me he was always confused about all the info on the net.He'll be baking sourdough soon my friend and all thanks to you...

**Steve Vojtek** · June 19, 2015, 06:34 AM

The oven is finally here. I picked it up straight after work and got home and started making bread. During the half hour of autolysing i unpacked it on the back of my ute and had to install a plug (they didn't supply it with one). Now my dough is doing it's bulk ferment i had a bit of a play with it. It is still on the back of my ute in the garage - kinda like tailgating' i still have to decide where to put it. Garage aka my outdoor kitchen or do serious surgery indoors to fit it in. It is 900mm or 35.4 inches wide and i can comfortably fit two dutch ovens - bake two loafes at a time. It has a bottom element but covered so easy to clean any spills also a top element and one behind the fan. Each can be configured to run separately or two at a time or all three. It has all kinds of features in the programs that i still have to learn. Eg: Pizza mode . love that one. I still have to read the manual more thoroughly but i turned the bottom element and the rear element on and took it to max and my trusted oven therm bottomed out - unbelievable - this thing gets seriously hot . The gauge is in celsius and 300C is 572F and it went beyond that. So i turned the bottom element off and turned it down and it slowly came down to more usable levels. Great for pizza though. Some pics...

**Steve Vojtek** · June 20, 2015, 04:56 AM

Results of my third try:

Fairly uneventful this time the new oven is great. Just one basic boule. I followed all the same steps as before. Handling the dough was easier again with a little more experience - with the slap and folds i find that if i use just my fingers not the whole hand it releases easier from my hands. And i think i mastered the one hand slap and fold - looked just like Chef Jacob's. For the final 30 min's of baking i was a bit conservative not knowing my new oven so i opted for the lower end of his recommendation ( 425 - 450 Fahrenheit or 215 - 230 Celsius ) i chose 215 C. Next time i will turn it up to get more colour and flavour in the crust. @Breadhead you asked me what kind of bread my dad bakes - he likes the european style rye bread, it's what he grew up on but he really loved my first boule and his only suggestion was to mix some caraway seeds into it - he likes that. I've also seen at Stella Cullinary that Chef Jacob has a video for a european rye bread with caraway seeds - i will attempt to make one for my dad - i'm sure he'll love it. I also managed to fit in a great dinner last night - i had a charcoal seared steak with (the new) oven baked potato chips (they were great!) and a salad but i'm still not happy with the sear on the steak - the SnS will fix that. I didn't take a lot of pics cause the same process but here:

**Breadhead** · June 23, 2015, 11:18 AM

Sorry for not responding earlier. I've been busy with, friends, family and Father's Day.

Again you produced a beautiful loaf of bread. Good on you!

You seem to be getting comfortable with the processes and techniques. By now you should be moving closer to SEEING and FEELING the dough transitioning to the next level. Beginning bread bakers go by times listed by their mentor's instructions. Then they move to recognizing how their dough looks and feels and when to move on to the next process.

Now... Let's stay with the same recipe, 600g bread flour, 400g water, 12g salt, but try something new. Let's use less starter and slow down the fermentation process a different way.

Try this. It lets you mix it today and bake it tomorrow or when it fits your schedule. This is delayed fermentation... After you mix the dough. The longer you leave it in the refrigerator, up to 24 hours, the better. Slow fermentation enhances flavor.

Recipe:

550g bread flour
350g water
100g SD starter
12g salt

Use the same techniques but... Extent your proofing times to compensate for the reduction of starter/yeast in the dough. Make the first autolyse 1 hour instead of 30 minutes. Make the autolyse/rest between stretch and folds 30 minutes, instead of the 20 minutes. We're trying to slow things down.

Then when your dough is fully developed, final shaped and ready for final proofing... Put it in your banneton, cover it and put it in your refrigerator. Leave it there for 12/24 hours. The cold temperature slows down the fermentation and gives the yeast, flour and water longer to works it's magic. You will get a little more tang out of your starter. We are moving away from grocery store sourdough bread. We are entering the Artisan sourdough bread zone.

Less starter, more flour, delayed fermentation creates better tasting bread.

The pH of this loaf will be lower because of the extended fermentation process. When you take it out of the fridge set it on your counter at room temperature. After 1 hour do the poke test, with your ambient temp it may take 2/3 hours. As soon as the dough only returns 2/3 of the way... Bake it.

Low pH bread needs a higher heat and less time. Bake it at 550° for about 20 minutes. Leave your lid on for 10 minutes, take it off but leave the temp at 550°. Cook to color.

I think you will be pleased with the results of these changes.

Remember... We are just manipulating the 600/400/12 recipe using different methods, techniques and timing to achieve better results.
.
Breadhead...

**chudzikb** · June 25, 2015, 07:28 PM

Back from vacation. As luck would have it, was in VT doing breweries and rail trails between there and NH. Happened to stumble into King Arthur Flower's training facility and store. I met the woman that did the videos that you linked in this thread. Told her they were very helpful and thanked her. Bought some stuff in the store, ate some samples, it was a great visit, if you happen to be in VT, by all means you should go there. Starter starts tomorrow.

**chudzikb** · June 26, 2015, 05:32 AM

"Bart" has been created! (as in a roadie named Bart) Pictures? That would require figuring out how to post them here. Too much work... My scale was ounces, I did the google conversion, will get a proper gram scale soon.

**chudzikb** · June 26, 2015, 09:04 AM

First question, I figure I have roughly 200 grams of starter, the recipe calls for 200 grams of starter. So, how do I get it up to that level? Don't dump as much when feeding? To allow the mass to "grow" in size? I know premature questions, there will be more in about 2 3 weeks.

**Steve Vojtek** · June 26, 2015, 10:43 PM

Speaking of starters i would like to post my experience with mine:

Temperatures greatly affect how often a starter needs to be fed. I've learned that from research and also experimenting.
At my current temps ( 40F - 60F aprox.) my starter only needs to be fed once every 24hours. I keep my starter at 400 grams at all times, with my work schedule i cannot predict when i'm going to bake. Except sunday - i can bake every sunday and i do. For me to bake and still get some reasonable sleep i need to get home by 6pm latest which is not always possible. I feed my starter every night before going to sleep by dumping 200 grams and feeding 100 grams bottled water and 50 grams WW and 50 grams BF all at room temps. I find that my starter always passes the float test when i get home at 6pm - so it's ready when i need it. Of course that will change when it starts getting warmer here and i will have to re adapt to suit.

There are also ways of "controlling" the starter using temperature and a little planing ahead if needed. Eg:
My dad wanted to bake his first sourdough yesterday. He only works part time - goes home at lunch time and due to work i couldn't go and show him but i did give him all the "tools" i bought for him and all the information and link to Chef Jacob's video etc. We viewed the video together so i could advise him on some of the steps etc.
The night before instead of dumping i split the starter into two 200 gram batches. I fed both and took my dad's one to work in the morning. My starter is 'trained' to be ready at 6pm - no good for dad cause he wanted to start as soon as he got home. So i found a clean bucket and filled it with warm water - about 80-85F and put the container with the starter in it. Using my thermapen i would periodically top up hot water to keep it at those temps. By the time dad was going home the starter was passing the float test. It worked and my dad baked his first sourdough. He called me at 9pm last night and told me it's in the oven and looking good. He sounded very excited and so did mum. As soon as i get my hands on the pics i will post.

I think one of the most important skills in sourdough baking is "knowing" your starter and being able to "manipulate" it within reason - at least for a busy guy like me.

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