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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Breadhead
    Banned Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 0

    #61
    Good luck on your first loaf chudzikb. Be sure when you take it out of the DO to put it on an elevated cooling rack and let it cool to room temperature. It is still cooking after you remove It from the oven. It takes a while for the crumb to set.

    Wait to post your pictures until you have the crumb picture too. The crumb picture is the real indicator of how your bread turned out.

    Also... You mentioned something about a dog. If you have a dog put your loaf high enough that your dog can't get to it. My dog is a bread thief! He has stolen a few loaves before I ever got to slice it.

    Breadhead
    Last edited by Breadhead; July 8, 2015, 01:39 PM.

    Comment

    • chudzikb
      Charter Member
      • Dec 2014
      • 184

      #62
      I am at the bulk fermentation stage, not sure I did the folding 100%, but, got that tension deal quickly. It was a tough bird when it came to stretching. Next time it will be better. I have a cooling rack, it would be more at risk if it was meat with my dog. But, you are correct, if she can get her snout on it, it is fair game. Was truly surprised how tough it had become, much tougher than pizza dough I make.

      Comment

      • Breadhead
        Banned Former Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 0

        #63
        chudzikb. If you've done the stretch and folds and the tension pulls and you put the tight dough in your banneton, you are now in the final proofing stage. Let it increase in size by 1.5 times it mass and then start doing the poke test to determine when to bake it. Look at the dent test video.

        If your kitchen is at 80° your final proofing will be 2 hours or less. Don't forget to preheat your oven and DO.

        My dog keeps his eyes on every loaf. I always make sure it's out of his reach.

        Comment

        • chudzikb
          Charter Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 184

          #64
          Did not look as nice as I wanted on the bottom. But, got it to look good on the top. In the basket, growing nicely, it is 80 in here, till I turn it down to sleep. Will be baking around 9:20 or so...

          Comment


          • chudzikb
            chudzikb commented
            Editing a comment
            Was not the most graceful transfer into the DO. The sense of self preservation from 500 degree iron might have had something to do with it. This is certainly not going to look good!
        • chudzikb
          Charter Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 184

          #65
          Click image for larger version

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          Comment


          • chudzikb
            chudzikb commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh, and posting pictures here is stupid easy. Who knew?
        • chudzikb
          Charter Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 184

          #66
          And out in the open...done. I suspect this would be a better idea in the winter, when heating the house might be a good idea?

          Click image for larger version

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          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            I bake the majority of my bread in my Big Green Egg. I can control my temperature better than in my kitchen oven and it doesn't heat the house up in the summer.

            Your kitchen oven is programmed to regulate the cooking temperature at a plus or minus 10° temperature variation. If you set it for 500° it will fluctuate between 490°/510° many times in a 30 minute cook.

            My BGE will vary about 3° during a 30 minute cook if I have preheated it and my pizza stone for 45 minutes. I tell my DigiQ Dx2 I want my interior cooking temperature at 500° and all is good.

          • Steve Vojtek
            Steve Vojtek commented
            Editing a comment
            Brilliant!! That's a beautifull loaf - nice oven spring... Much better than mine. You did really well for your first boule. Outstanding!!!
        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 0

          #67
          chudzikb. Wow! That is a beautiful loaf of bread. You got exceptional oven spring. That means you did a really good job with your stretch and folds and your tension tugs. You're going to have an open and airy crumb. I can't wait to see that picture.

          You also had ideal conditions. I bet your starter was digging the feeding you gave it in the morning and the 80° temperature. I bet you used your starter at its peak. That my friend is a home run. All of the elements were working with you.

          You pulled it off my friend. Pat yourself on the back. I bet your friends and family will love the beautiful loaf of sourdough bread you made for their enjoyment.

          Sourdough bread baking is a lost art. For 2000 years ALL bread was sourdough. When man created commercial yeast, Sourdough was pushed aside, because big bread factory type bakeries could crank out 1000's of loaves of bread in a single day. Quickly fermented bread has no taste!

          I recommend that you keep making this same exact dough for the next 4 or 5 loaves to hone your skills. You will learn with each loaf what the dough is supposed to feel like and look like at each and every step. You will no longer need the video's those techniques will be embedded in your mind.

          Then we will move to a little higher hydration dough, that will give you a more open crumb. We will move to pre-fermented and delayed fermentation dough that will enhance the flavor and the shelf life of your bread.

          The great part of those more advanced steps is... They take no, zero, zilch additional hands on effort, just more waiting time.

          Cooking a really great Artisan loaf of sourdough bread and smoking a really good brisket or pork butt takes about the same amount of time... 16 hours. Neither require very much hands on time - most of it is waiting for something to happen. You get more sleep when your dough is fermenting too.

          Congratulations my friend you studied well. Both you and Steve Vojtek really surprised me. You both baked a much better loaf of bread than I was baking on my 10th loaf.

          Breadhead...
          Last edited by Breadhead; July 9, 2015, 01:18 AM.

          Comment


          • chudzikb
            chudzikb commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks guys! I really thought it was going to be a disaster. Will cut it for breakfast and take a pic. There are things I could have done better, of that I am sure. But, when I fed "Bart" in the A.M., left for work, came back in about 4 hours for lunch, he had doubled in size. I never got the inactive "stall" phase of the starter, once it started, "Bart" kept on rocking. Putting in the refrigerator after feeding on Friday when gone, back in 4 days. How do you deal with longer vacations and starter maintenance? Breadhead and Steve, thanks for your advise and support, this certainly was not possible with out it, and for that I thank you.
        • chudzikb
          Charter Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 184

          #68
          Well, it's actually pretty tasty. There is a hint of that sour dough taste in there. But, more importantly, it is tough to eat, meaning you have to chew it, and in my mind, that is good bread. When I was doing the final tension pull, I saw bubbles right under the outside layer, I expected more air pockets in this loaf. Not seen yet, but, it is not fully cut up either. Click image for larger version

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          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            chudzikb. "There is a hint of that sour dough taste in there."

            The sour taste comes from your starter, not from the dough. Creating/controlling the sourness, the tang, of your starter is part of the science of sourdough bread making.

            Later... After you've refined your skills a little more I'll inform you how to create a more sour flavor in your starter if that's what you want. San Francisco sourdough is famous for it extraordinary sourness, tang. Part of that is what you feed your starter, the feeding timing and cold storage.

            If you engineer a sourness in your starter you can get very sour tasting bread.

            Now is not the time to get that technical.

          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            chudzikb. "When I was doing the final tension pull, I saw bubbles right under the outside layer,"

            Bingo! Thats what I want to see during the final shaping process. The blisters are an indication that your starter/yeast is very active.

            That will greatly help your final proofing process.

            The lack of holes, the slight density of your crumb indicates to me your dough was slightly under proofed. Had you given it another half hour to final proof you might have got a more open crumb. That's a very difficult thing to judge for a beginner.

            The Co2 that your starter is omitting during the final proofing process is what creates those holes. The poke test is about seeing/feeling the development of that process.
        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 0

          #69
          chudzikb. "Thanks guys! I really thought it was going to be a disaster."

          Most people think that.

          Baking bread is not nearly as difficult as people make you think it is... It's just science and techniques.

          " I never got the inactive "stall" phase of the starter... " You had 80° ambient temperature, yeast heaven! No Stall... Amazing!

          "How do you deal with longer vacations and starter maintenance?" Just put it in the fridge before you leave and when you get home dump and feed it. It might take 2 or 3 days to revive it's self but... Dump and feed and all will be good.

          "Breadhead and Steve, thanks for your advise and support, this certainly was not possible with out it, and for that I thank you."

          All we ask is that you do for others what we did for you. One day you are a student, the next day you are a teacher.

          Pay it forward my friend and we are even!

          But... You are just getting started. There are a few slight details that you will absorb in the next few weeks that will make you love baking bread. Baking bread is a personal thing that no one you know will understand why you do it or why you are so passionate about it... but you will.

          The only reason I bake bread is to see if I can...

          I don't eat much bread. I bake bread as an art form... Because I can. I like making a beautiful loaf of bread or a beautiful hamburger bun... Just to see if I can!

          I baked my first loaf of bread when I was 59 years old. Just to see if I could?
          Last edited by Breadhead; July 9, 2015, 04:42 AM.

          Comment


          • chudzikb
            chudzikb commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you sir! I make stuff because, well, I like to eat! Smoking, grilling, and now bread, all driven by making excellent results. Never thought it would be so easy. I was going to try one small mod today, (since I have time) and go half and half on the flour with whole wheat flour. Just want to see what it will do. One of my friends has already expressed an interest in learning. He is a fellow smoker/griller and home made pizza guy.

            And for others, if I figured it out, you can as well. Watch that chef Jacob video over and over and while you are actually making the loaf. It is not rocket science, take your time and follow along, things can and do work out.
        • Huskee
          Pit Boss
          • May 2014
          • 14901
          • central MI, USA
          • Follow me on Instagram, huskeesbarbecue

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          #70
          Wartface chudzikb Steve Vojtek You guys are awesome!

          Comment


          • Steve Vojtek
            Steve Vojtek commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you Huskee. chudzikb really outdid me with his first loaf. I looks just like Chef Jacob's. That's an awesome looking loaf. He's got baking talent..that's for sure...

          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you Huskee. This has been a fun project for all of us. Both Steve and Chudzikb have learned much faster than I thought was possible. I personally was not capable of making as good a loaf as either of them when I started trying to learn how to make sourdough bread.

            It gives me great pleasure to see their successes.
        • Steve Vojtek
          Charter Member
          • Mar 2015
          • 612
          • Melbourne Australia
          • 6 & 2 burner gas BBQ's
            Diy electric smoker
            A-maze-n-tube 12 inch
            Gas powered pizza oven
            GMG Davy Crockett with Wifi
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            2 x Thermapens
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            Scotch whiskey various brands
            American Honey WT
            And beer ....
            And at work just plain old chilled water....

          #71
          chudzikb i must say you did really well - no you did excellent Sir!! My hat off to you!!! Beautifull oven spring and a nice even crumb. That is something i've been trying to achieve whilst battling my cold temps. I just finished baking two boules. Just like Breadhead i don't eat a lot of bread - at least i didn't use to. I eat a lot more now that i'm baking my own cause it's just so much better. My usual routine is to bake it - take it to work the next day and everyone brings something to put on the bread and we all have a nice brunch. The guys love it. The reason i baked two tonight is that one of the guy's took a couple of slices home to his wife and she loved them. I promised to bake him one to take home cause i think his wife is interested in trying it herself. He asked me for all the info and i gave it to him. I did explain to him that my bread is not perfect by far but they still love the results... go figure..
          Shop bought bread always gives me acid reflux - the reason i don't eat it much but with this naturally leavened sourdough bread i never had that problem. It is healthier and much easier to digest than commercial yeast bread (and whatever else they put in it).
          The reason i started this? Well let's just say i like a challenge. And for some reason i just wanted to bake sourdough bread for years now i forget why. The reason i got into BBQ'ing ? The same. Controlling temps in a kettle and producing awesome tasting food is soo much better than turning my indoor oven to a certain temp and cooking something for x amount of time per x amount of weight etc. You all know what i mean. And nothing beats the taste of real BBQ.
          Whilst my oven spring is not great i'm really hoping to have a better crumb. I did change a few things. Full report tomorrow as it's 2 am and i need to hit the sack...
          Preview of the non identical 'twins' :

          Click image for larger version

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          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            Steve... Congrats on more beautiful loaves of bread.

            Yes naturally leavened bread is healthier than store bought bread that has been formulated to extend the shelf life. And we know it tastes better.

            I'm pleased you are paying it forward with your friends wife.

            How's your Pop's doing on his bread making project?

          • chudzikb
            chudzikb commented
            Editing a comment
            Good stuff right there! I think it is the fact that they are water, flour, and a little salt that makes them better than store bought? We control the ingredients and the percentage of whole wheat in them as well. This is not lost on my wife, she sees the health aspects of what I am making.
        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 0

          #72
          chudzikb. "Never thought it would be so easy." Each loaf gets easier and easier. Repetition refines your skills and understanding.


          " I was going to try one small mod today, (since I have time) and go half and half on the flour with whole wheat flour. Just want to see what it will do."

          I would recommend that you only use 20% of the total flour as Whole Wheat flour. That will allow you to stay with the same hydration and it will give you a different flavor profile. If you go above 20% you need to increase the hydration to 70%/75%. Your crumb will be more dense. Remember half of the flour in your starter is WW flour. Factor that 50 grams into your formula.


          "One of my friends has already expressed an interest in learning. He is a fellow smoker/griller and home made pizza guy." Pay it forward my friend. Someone once did for me what I've done for you. Breadhead's like to share, just like griller' do.

          "And for others, if I figured it out, you can as well. Watch that chef Jacob video over and over and while you are actually making the loaf. It is not rocket science, take your time and follow along, things can and do work out." Chef Jacob is my bread making mentor! When I have questions I turn to him. He is a master bread maker.

          I'm pleased that you like Steve Vojtek have shown the Pit members of AmazingRibs that real bread making is not that difficult.

          Comment

          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 0

            #73
            chudzikb. "Never thought it would be so easy." Each loaf gets easier and easier. Repetition refines your skills and understanding.


            " I was going to try one small mod today, (since I have time) and go half and half on the flour with whole wheat flour. Just want to see what it will do."

            I would recommend that you only use 20% of the total flour as Whole Wheat flour. That will allow you to stay with the same hydration and it will give you a different flavor profile. If you go above 20% you need to increase the hydration to 70%/75%. Your crumb will be more dense. Remember half of the flour in your starter is WW flour. Factor that 50 grams into your formula.


            "One of my friends has already expressed an interest in learning. He is a fellow smoker/griller and home made pizza guy." Pay it forward my friend. Someone once did for me what I've done for you. Breadhead's like to share, just like griller' do.

            "And for others, if I figured it out, you can as well. Watch that chef Jacob video over and over and while you are actually making the loaf. It is not rocket science, take your time and follow along, things can and do work out." Chef Jacob is my bread making mentor! When I have questions I turn to him. He is a master bread maker.

            I'm pleased that you like Steve Vojtek have shown the Pit members of AmazingRibs that real bread making is not that difficult.

            Comment


            • chudzikb
              chudzikb commented
              Editing a comment
              Don't know how, but, figured out the 20% deal on the whole wheat flour before you mentioned it. Jedi bread maker? That is the actual percentage of what I am making right now. Should be interesting to see the results. The women at work loved the bread, I suspect that is good?
          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 0

            #74
            chudzikb. It's great that the ladies at work liked your bread. Most Breadhead's bake more bread than can possibly eat and need appreciative people to give it to.

            Nice that you figured it out on your own. You could do a 50/50 loaf but WW needs more water. Plus it ends up as a pretty dense crumb. Remember your starter is 50% WW so out of the 200 grams of starter you put in your recipe you have 100g water, 50g bread flour and 50g WW flour.

            I look forward to seeing your next loaf. It will be interesting to see if you get that great oven spring again.

            Comment


            • chudzikb
              chudzikb commented
              Editing a comment
              It is in the final rising stage now. Then into the oven around 9:00 tonight. It went easier this time. Figuring it out, need to make a cheat sheet on when to do what and for how long.

            • chudzikb
              chudzikb commented
              Editing a comment
              Really have to work on getting from proofing basket to the DO, certainly not hitting the middle of the oven. And then it stuck to my hand, I suspect experience will smooth these transitions over. Cause, it is not pretty now!

            • Breadhead
              Breadhead commented
              Editing a comment
              chudzikb. As you keep making more loaves of bread you will develop a keen sense of how your dough is supposed to look and feel at each step. You are learning to bake bread in ideal conditions. As your ambient temperature falls your bread will take longer to rise and longer to ferment. The general rule is for every 17° change in ambient temperature your dough will take half as long to develop or twice as long to develop.

              Going by time is fine but you have to adjust the times as conditions change.

              Develop that visual knowledge of how your dough is supposed to look and the hands on feel of the dough at each step. Then you will know what to do under any condition and when to do it.
          • chudzikb
            Charter Member
            • Dec 2014
            • 184

            #75
            Look away, I am horribly misshapen! The elephant man of sourdough bread loafs. And one more question, how do I get that tangy sour taste of the sourdough from the stores? Click image for larger version

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            Comment


            • Steve Vojtek
              Steve Vojtek commented
              Editing a comment
              That oven spring is awesome!!

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          Our Favorite Backyard Smoker

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          The amazing Karubecue is the most innovative smoker in the world. The quality of meat from this machine is astonishing. At its crux is a patented firebox that burns logs above the cooking chamber and sucks heat and extremely clean blue smoke into the thermostat controlled oven. It is our favorite smoker, period.

          Click here for our review of this superb smoker


          Masterbuilt MPS 340/G ThermoTemp XL Propane Smoker

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          This is the first propane smoker with a thermostat, making this baby foolproof. Set ThermoTemp's dial from 175° to 350°F and the thermostat inside will adjust the burner just like an indoor kitchen oven. All you need to do is add wood to the tray above the burner to start smokin'.

          Click here to read our detailed review


          Digital Thermometers Are Your Most Valuable Tool And Here's A Great Buy!

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          A good digital thermometer keeps you from serving dry overcooked food or dangerously undercooked food. They are much faster and much more accurate than dial thermometers. YOU NEED ONE!

          Click here to read our complete review


          Track Up To Six Temperatures At Once

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          FireBoard Drive 2 is an updated version of a well-received product that sets the standard for performance and functionality in the wireless food thermometer/thermostatic controller class.

          Click here for our review of this unique device


          The Cool Kettle With The Hinged Hood We Always Wanted

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          Napoleon's NK22CK-C Charcoal Kettle Grill puts a few spins on the familiar kettle design. In fact, the hinged lid with a handle on the front, spins in a rotary motion 180 degrees. It's hard to beat a Weber kettle, but Napoleon holds its own and adds some unique features to make the NK22CK-C a viable alternative.

          Click here for more about what makes this grill special


          Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

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          Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

          Click here to read our detailed review and to order