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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Breadhead
    Banned Former Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 0

    #16
    Steve Vojtek WOW... Great job!

    That is leaps and bounds better than my first loaf was.

    Great job of docking/scoring your boule. It will be interesting to see the color of your crust after the next 30 minutes of baking uncovered.

    Those ears will burn a little bit, that's a good thing. Then seeing the crumb is always the final test. What temp did you bake at?

    That's a great Cast Iron Dutch oven to bake bread in. It gave you beautiful oven spring. How you final shaped your boule was critical in achieving good oven spring too. Job well done my friend!

    Pat yourself on the back my friend. That is a tremendous first attempt at baking a sourdough boule. Tremendous I tell you!
    Last edited by Breadhead; June 8, 2015, 11:10 AM.

    Comment

    • Steve Vojtek
      Charter Member
      • Mar 2015
      • 612
      • Melbourne Australia
      • 6 & 2 burner gas BBQ's
        Diy electric smoker
        A-maze-n-tube 12 inch
        Gas powered pizza oven
        GMG Davy Crockett with Wifi
        Rosle 24 inch charcoal kettle
        Slow'nSear - my favourite
        2 x Thermapens
        2 x wireless thermometers
        3 x wired thermometers
        Favourite drink:
        Scotch whiskey various brands
        American Honey WT
        And beer ....
        And at work just plain old chilled water....

      #17
      Ok the results of my first sourdough ...
      I have to mention that i had problems with my first try but i still went ahead just for practise and cause i just had to.The slap and folds and the strech and folds worked out ok after watching Chef Jacob's video many many times. First problem: my starter didn't pass the float test - instead it slowly sunk and drowned LOL . It was past it's peak but still had some life in it ( i'm still working on getting the timing right for my starter - adjusted feeding time to suit ) Second : I thought i had more but only had 400 grams of bread flour left after all the pizzas i made - i filled in with 100 grams of the flour i use to feed my starter - i have now restocked my flour supplies. Third: i discovered my oven only goes to 446 farenheit, not 500 so i left the lid on for a few minutes longer - maybe another 8 or so. So i'll be buying a new oven .. There's a solution for every problem .. The good news - i should have named my first loaf Eleanor - let me explain: I took half of the loaf to work today on a cutting board and sliced it into small pieces to give everyone a sample hoping to keep a couple of slices for lunch . I should've known better - after i made my round everyone was coming back for seconds and more and before i knew it i was left with an empty board and nothing left for lunch LOL - had to buy takeaway - i've never heard ' best bread i ever had ' so many times before .It was 'gone in 60 seconds' my dad (he works in my company) was so impressed he wants me to teach him - so i will be paying it forward.. It really tasted awesome .. The bad: due to the 'issues' the crumb was denser than it should've been - more of a texture problem - not a taste problem.. I've learned and next attempt will be better...Not a complete failure but not a complete success either - inbetween - Thank you Breadhead. Now some pics:

      Comment

      • Breadhead
        Banned Former Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 0

        #18
        @Steve... That bread is a lot better than you're giving it credit for. I'm willing to bet that not more than 1 out of 100,000 people could post a picture of an absolutely beautiful boule like that on their very first loaf of sourdough bread.

        You will get the timing of your starter down pat by just repetition. You might want to keep a log on it's timing for a month or 2. It could be depressed because you haven't given it a name yet.😏 I personally will not proceed if my starter doesn't pass the float test. Yours must have still been pretty active but heading downwards. It got active again when you mixed it with new flour.

        The slap and fold and stretch and fold techniques are tried and true for developing your loaves. It's better than old fashion kneading.

        Short on bread flour... The same thing happened with me last night. I have some dough cold fermenting in the fridge now that is 328g Whole Wheat flour and 172g bread flour. I boosted the hydration to 75% because WW gobbles more water.

        446°F... That's about the minimum, but still ok. Just cook to color. Give it time. You can go over the 205°F some without hurting your crumb.

        Eleanor... Most people have rarely if ever tasted real sourdough bread that's not made in a high volume bakery factory. It's a good thing they loved your bread for 2 reasons. 1: Because it confirms you succeeded at making a beautiful loaf of bread that also tasted great. 2: Breadhead's bake much more bread than they can possibly eat and need to have people to give it to that appreciates it.

        You're Dad, paying it forward. Great it's nice having a fun project with your pops.

        A dense crumb. That crumb had lots of holes in it. It's not as dense as many I've seen. Less than perfect sourdough still tastes awesome.

        I look forward to seeing your future loaves. You will get better with every loaf.

        I give you a standing ovation Steve. I really don't think you realize that for a first attempt at a true sourdough loaf of bread, that is truly a work of art!

        Breadhead

        Comment


        • Breadhead
          Breadhead commented
          Editing a comment
          @W.A.

          Selling dried sourdough packet's for 100 year old or 235 year old sourdough cultures, as some claim, is the biggest money making hustle in the bread baking industry. They... Are picking your pocket!!!

          They could send you dried flour that looks different than regular flour. With the instruction I gave on building a sourdough starter above and it would work.

          If some Master Baker in San Francisco gave me some of his starter to bring home to Hermosa Beach, Ca. My local yeast that's on my hands, in my kitchen and my backyard would do battle with the foreign yeast from San Francisco and the local yeast would eventually win.

          Importing a sourdough culture from somewhere else is a waste of time and money!!!

          Ask Steve Vojket... All it takes is a little flour and an equal amount of water. In 2 weeks or less you will have an active robust starter that can levin a loaf of sourdough bread.

          When you're moved and ready to start your sourdough journey read this thread and feel free to ask either Steve or myself any question you may have.

          Breadhead...

        • Steve Vojtek
          Steve Vojtek commented
          Editing a comment
          W.A. I fully agree with Wartface. I may be new to this but have done ton's of research on the net and if you take a sourdough starter from one location to another the local yeast and lactic acid bacteria will take over and win the 'battle'. You will be better off starting your own from scratch. It's just water (bottled water recommended) and flour - soo easy and few weeks later you will be making great bread following Breadhead's instructions - it really is that easy.. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed LOL - if i can do it -anyone can ... That's all .. Good luck with your relocation btw - i hate those - since the age of ten my family relocated through 3 different countries and once we got to australia and i grew up and split away i've moved aprox 9 times LOL but i'm settled now ...I've read about the San Fran sourdough but never tasted it but my nature is to question things and i'm wondering whether all the hype is just psychological - if a lot of people tell you something's great or better one may believe it? I wonder how many people would be able to pick it in a blind tasting test. But i'm probably wrong - just my opinion ... All i can say is that my sourdough where i am tasted great - reminded me of my grandmother's bread which was made on the other side of the world when i was a kid...just a thought..

        • Thunder77
          Thunder77 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yep, that's why San Francisco sourdough is only San Francisco sourdough in San Fran! Local yeast an bacteria win!
      • Steve Vojtek
        Charter Member
        • Mar 2015
        • 612
        • Melbourne Australia
        • 6 & 2 burner gas BBQ's
          Diy electric smoker
          A-maze-n-tube 12 inch
          Gas powered pizza oven
          GMG Davy Crockett with Wifi
          Rosle 24 inch charcoal kettle
          Slow'nSear - my favourite
          2 x Thermapens
          2 x wireless thermometers
          3 x wired thermometers
          Favourite drink:
          Scotch whiskey various brands
          American Honey WT
          And beer ....
          And at work just plain old chilled water....

        #19
        Thank you Breadhead for your very kind words. To be honest i was surprised at how good it turned out - with all the issues - for me it was a training exercise more than anything to learn how to handle the dough - how it feels etc . I had nothing to lose, water and flour are cheap and practise makes perfect .. Didn't expect a good outcome at all. To my surprise i ended up with a great tasting loaf that earned me some brownie points with my workmates and a project to do with my dad. But a student is only as good as his teacher - most of the credit goes to you. There's a lot of info on the net about sourdough and a lot of it is confusing and contradictory. To have someone put it into perspective for me was invaluable. Thank you very much . I will be getting a new oven in the next couple of days and am planning to make two loafs on the weekend to take to work monday - we have a new guy starting and i'm gonna do some meat on my davy crockett - Meathead's mac'n'cheese and potato salad just to impress him - i'm a bit of a show off LOL.. And also i have finally named my starter - or should i say starters - i decided to split it into two 'twins' one fed at night and one in the morning - Night owl and Early bird respectively - gives me more options...

        Comment

        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 0

          #20
          Steve

          I'm glad to see you're getting a new oven. Being able to get to 500°F will give the proper color and texture to your crust.

          To continue in your learning curve I would recommend you use this same recipe with no changes at all for a few months. Repetition is the best teacher. After a few loaves you will operate by sight and feel. You will know instinctually when your dough is ready for the next step.

          "A student is only as good as his teacher." I simply guided you toward information I knew was correct and easy to understand. I knew I could shield you from all the phony meaningless mumbo jumbo that drains your time and energy.

          I feel for me this was a great success. My other goal besides teaching you to make sourdough bread was to see if I could get others interested in taking up bread baking too. As you see on this thread we've had a couple say their going to attempt this soon. Hopefully there will be more. Your quick and easy success just goes to show that baking good sourdough bread in not that difficult.

          You really ought to go to StellaCulinary.com and thank Chef Jacob for his great video and his ability to make it easy to understand. Show him those pictures of your first loaf... That will blow his mind. Tell him about our collaboration. He will be pleased that I, his student, is paying it forward.

          Bake with passion my friend.
          Last edited by Breadhead; June 10, 2015, 10:53 AM.

          Comment


          • scottranda
            scottranda commented
            Editing a comment
            As long as this thread doesn't disappear, I'm going to give sourdough a try!! I'm inspired!!

          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            @scottranda

            Great I was hoping others would want to learn to bake real sourdough bread. It's not nearly as difficult as people think it is. Steve is an excellent example that people with no bread baking experience can learn to make excellent bread in 1 month and that includes the 2 weeks it take to develop your sourdough starter.

            If and when you do it feel free to ask Steve and I any question you might have.

            Breadhead
        • Breadhead
          Banned Former Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 0

          #21
          Steve Vojtek

          While you continue to work this recipe and hone your technique's it would be great for you to study lesson #6. We will use the same recipe we'll just add a step. We will intentionally slow down the fermentation process by doing a preferment, using half of the flour - 300g, an equal amount of water - 300g and 6 grams of sourdough starter, the day before you actually bake your dough.

          Slowing down the fermentation process adds structure to your gluten development. It adds to the flavor of the bread. It extends shelf life without adding artificial ingredients. Real Artisan Bread maker's always prefer this added step if time permits.

          When you read about the different forms of preferment's pay particular close attention to the Poolish method. I happen to think that is the best form because it is 100% hydration and that makes it very simple to change your recipe/formula to a preferment mixing process.

          http://www.kingarthurflour.com/profe...eferments.html

          The only place you can buy this type of sourdough bread is at specialty Artisan Bread bakeries or you have to make it yourself. We are going to do just that.

          Our current recipe when you include the water and flour of the starter is:
          600g Flour
          400g Water
          12g Salt

          When we change to a prefermented dough we will keep the formula the same... 600/400/12. We will just add flour and water to make up for the quantity of starter we are going to eliminate.

          Here's how it will look:

          Preferment
          300g Bread flour
          300g Water
          6g sourdough starter

          Mix that to a shaggy mass, cover it and let it ferment at room temperature for 12/16 hours.

          Add the rest of the ingredients to the preferment...
          297g bread flour
          97g water
          12g salt.

          Mix to a shaggy mass and autolyse/rest for 30 minutes. Then continue with Chef Jacob's techniques.

          It's still a 600/400/12 formula. But because we took about 20 hours to develop the dough we will be rewarded with a better quality loaf of bread. I call this my low and slow loaf. Using less starter and letting it ferment slowly has great rewards. It's like a low & slow pork butt. You can't rush great bread... It's done when it done!

          The actual hands on time is exactly the same regardless of which method you use. Patience and planning ahead has great rewards in both bread and BBQ.
          Last edited by Breadhead; June 10, 2015, 06:00 PM.

          Comment

          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 0

            #22
            Steve Vojtek

            I did the pre-fermented sourdough loaf as described in post #22 last night and baked it tonight. Here it is. It's easy too.

            Yes... You can make a 600 grams of flour loaf of bread with just 6 grams of sourdough starter, you just have to give it time to do its thing.

            https://app.box.com/s/nux66sctiqzvo798qnizv43wopef8h8z
            Last edited by Breadhead; June 12, 2015, 02:34 AM.

            Comment


            • Steve Vojtek
              Steve Vojtek commented
              Editing a comment
              Thank you Wartface. Having some internet issues here but finally managed to check my e-mail and log on here. I will be making 2 Eleanor's on sunday - time to find out if it was beginner's luck. Next week i will try the pre-ferment - the extra step is easy to do. I am in the process of ordering the Slow an Sear and getting it shipped to Australia so i'll be having a lot of fun. After all baking great bread and making great bbq is not a chore - it is fun with great rewards....
          • chudzikb
            Charter Member
            • Dec 2014
            • 184

            #23
            Alright, I read everything, all the links as well. When I get back from a short vacation will start my starter. As for "stuff" I think I would need a bench scraper, proofing basket, and maybe a plastic bowl scraper. Says use "non reactive bowls" does stainless fit this requirement? Have stainless bowls, but, will get some glass if that is preferable? Any recommendations for other equipment? I have a digital scale which I use to make pizza dough. (left over from building pinewood derby cars for cub scouts) Would like to start sooner but, nervous about a departure for 5 days. So, will start in about 2 weeks. And I do, well my wife, has a dutch oven, actually 2 of them.

            The king arthur videos showed more clearly the folding under when making it round. Kind of like his "dragging" process.

            Comment

            • Steve Vojtek
              Charter Member
              • Mar 2015
              • 612
              • Melbourne Australia
              • 6 & 2 burner gas BBQ's
                Diy electric smoker
                A-maze-n-tube 12 inch
                Gas powered pizza oven
                GMG Davy Crockett with Wifi
                Rosle 24 inch charcoal kettle
                Slow'nSear - my favourite
                2 x Thermapens
                2 x wireless thermometers
                3 x wired thermometers
                Favourite drink:
                Scotch whiskey various brands
                American Honey WT
                And beer ....
                And at work just plain old chilled water....

              #24
              chudzikb . Yes bench scraper (depending on the surface you'l be working on either plastic or stainless - stainless will scratch some surfaces ), bowl scraper, digital scale. Proofing basket or banneton can be improvised by lining any bowl with a clean lint free teatowel or t-shirt and covering with plastic wrap and i use a rubber band to keep the wrap on. It works the same. Stainless bowls are non reactive and in the video Chef Jacob uses one and so do i. You may also need a digital thermometer to measure the temp of your water - and bottled water is also recommended both for your starter and your bread.Also you will need a really sharp knife or razor blade for scoring as in Chef Jacob's video.The 'dragging' process are 'tension pulls' it creates tension on top of the dough for a better oven spring. I'm baking two tonight - the first is done and the second will be going into the oven soon. I've had some problems again and i will post results tomorrow so others can see and not make the same mistakes i made.

              Comment

              • Breadhead
                Banned Former Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 0

                #25
                Steve Vojtek good job of answering chudzikb's questions. You got this all figured out all ready. chudzikb I agree with Steve the tension pulls that Chef Jacob uses in his final shaping will get more tension on your boule than the method demonstrated in the King Arthur video. You can use plastic, glass or stainless steel for your mixing bowl. For the mixing process I prefer clear glass so I can see what's happening during the autolyse time and proofing time without lifting the cover. A stainless steel bench scraper is not a must have. I really use the plastic putty scrapper that I bought at a hardware store in their painting supplies department. It's 6" wide and does as good a job as a SS scrapper does and costs much less. You can use a really shape knife to dock/score your loaves but a real bakers Lame is less than $20. Chudzikb... I'm pleased that you've decided to give it a try. Good luck on your sourdough journey. Feel free to ask either of us questions at anytime.
                Last edited by Breadhead; June 14, 2015, 11:03 AM.

                Comment

                • Jon Solberg
                  Former Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 4819

                  #26
                  The knowledge sharing on this is AWESOME! I totally dig the pay it forward attitude. Great job Steve! Congrats to all involved!

                  Comment


                  • Steve Vojtek
                    Steve Vojtek commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank You Jon Solberg . I just want anyone who wants to try this to benefit from my learning experience and not make the mistakes that i've made and will undoubtedly make... This is what AR is all about...
                • Breadhead
                  Banned Former Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 0

                  #27
                  @Jon Solberg

                  Steve did a great job of his very first loaf of sourdough bread.

                  I hope others see how easy it is and decide they too can pull it off.

                  After you create your sourdough culture/starter out of just flour and water... You can mix, proof and bake a loaf of sourdough bread in half the time it takes to smoke a pork butt or a brisket.

                  It just seems to me to be a good fit for those that like doing low and slow cooks.
                  Last edited by Breadhead; June 15, 2015, 12:50 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Jon Solberg
                    Former Member
                    • Jul 2014
                    • 4819

                    #28
                    Way to complicated for me. I'm good with BBQ. hehehehehe

                    Comment

                    • DWCowles
                      Founding Member
                      • Jul 2014
                      • 9709
                      • Smiths Grove, Ky
                      • Hi, my name is Darrell. I'm an OTR truck driver for over 25 years. During my off time I love doing backyard cooks. I have a 48" Lang Deluxe smoker, Rec-Tec pellet smoker,1 Weber Genesis 330, 1 Weber Performer (blue), 2 Weber kettles (1 black and 1 Copper), 1 26" Weber kettle, a WSM, 8 Maverick Redi Chek thermometers, a PartyQ, 2 SnS, Grill Grates, Cast Iron grates, 1 ThermoPop (orange) and 2 ThermoPens (pink and orange) and planning on adding more cooking accessories. Now I have an Anova sous vide, the Dragon blower and 2 Chef alarms from Thermoworks.

                      #29
                      Me too Jon Solberg I leave the bread making for the bakery. I will stick with BBQing.

                      Comment


                      • Steve Vojtek
                        Steve Vojtek commented
                        Editing a comment
                        DWCowles I am learning and doing both.. My dream is to open a small restaurant and serve great bbq, bread,burgers etc. I started learning late but this old dog is learning new tricks. I want to put my plan into motion about 5 years from now and i still have a lot to learn. It is exhausting - late nights etc but it's something i need to do...

                      • Breadhead
                        Breadhead commented
                        Editing a comment
                        That's a nice goal Steve. I would suggest you work at a restaurant before you start your own. The restaurant business is a tough game. I would suggest asking Chef Jacob about weaving a path to owning a restaurant. He's worked in 4 and 5 star restaurants. He's is the executive Chef at Stell's a nice restaurant in Truckee, Ca.

                        His website is all about preparing up and coming chef's and Resturantuer's.
                    • Steve Vojtek
                      Charter Member
                      • Mar 2015
                      • 612
                      • Melbourne Australia
                      • 6 & 2 burner gas BBQ's
                        Diy electric smoker
                        A-maze-n-tube 12 inch
                        Gas powered pizza oven
                        GMG Davy Crockett with Wifi
                        Rosle 24 inch charcoal kettle
                        Slow'nSear - my favourite
                        2 x Thermapens
                        2 x wireless thermometers
                        3 x wired thermometers
                        Favourite drink:
                        Scotch whiskey various brands
                        American Honey WT
                        And beer ....
                        And at work just plain old chilled water....

                      #30
                      Results of my second try:

                      First i must mention that new oven i wanted wasn't in stock - they said 5-7 days so i'm still waiting. A while ago i bought a gas powered outdoor pizza oven that can hit 500F - i decided to use that. I've never used it before and learned something - having the dutch oven on the bottom shelf on the pizza stone = not a good idea. The first loaf (basic sourdough) got burned on the bottom. For the second loaf (pre-fermented) i moved in to the middle shelf- not as bad but still had a burned bottom. I think it needs to go on the top shelf or maybe just don't use it for this kind of bread....


                      First loaf (basic):

                      I used the same procedure as on my first try except this time my starter knew how to swim - it passed the float test beautifully. Handling the dough was easier than the first time and i think i did a little bit better job of the tension pulls. If you ignore the burnt bottom the results were quite similar except this one sprung a little higher - small improvement. I need to work on getting more colour on top - the new oven should solve that. After cutting off the ' burned end ' it's still a good loaf of bread and will be eaten. Now some pics.

                      Comment

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                      Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

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                      Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

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