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How to make sourdough bread...

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  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1766
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    My scale is only good to the nearest two grams, which is to say that it only reads out in even numbers when set to measure grams. I use a tablespoon of coarse grey sea salt in my sourdough boule (actually Stella Culinary's) recipe and it's always fine. Heaping or a bit shy makes no perceptible difference to my taste buds. Perhaps purists will disagree. I also rarely weigh things like sugar, eggs, oil, yeast, and butter. The only things I get precise about are the weights of the hydrating liquid and flour.

    Comment


    • Breadhead
      Breadhead commented
      Editing a comment
      I use this scale because it measures in 1 gram increments and... it has the bakers percentage too. https://www.amazon.com/Kitchen-Scale...+scale+kd+8000

    • Willy
      Willy commented
      Editing a comment
      @Breadhead: I'm waiting for my current scale to fail so I can buy a better one. Alas, this one will likely last forever. LOL
  • RonB
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    • Apr 2016
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    scottranda - I see different recipes that call for anywhere from 1% to 3%. You should be OK. I do find most "real" french bread on the salty side though, and they tend to be on the high side percentage wise. To me, tasting salt in bread means it has too much salt. It's there to retard fermentation and add flavor to the rest of the ingredients.

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    • scottranda
      scottranda commented
      Editing a comment
      Feeeeeeeeeling better....

    • scottranda
      scottranda commented
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      Bread tasted just fine, thank you Willy RonB

    • RonB
      RonB commented
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      scottranda - glad to here it turned out well.
  • scottranda
    Charter Member
    • May 2015
    • 1419
    • Charlotte, NC

    Sometimes the stars align
    Attached Files

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    • Thunder77
      Thunder77 commented
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      Beauty!! 👍👍
  • RonB
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    A great lookin' hunk o' bread scottranda .

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    • MBMorgan
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      • Sep 2015
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      The Never Ending Search for Sour Sourdough...

      This post is largely in response to some earlier conversations in which Willy has long been attempting to improve the tanginess of his SD.

      OK ... for the last few weeks, I've been maintaining my 200 g SD poolish differently in an attempt to (1) make it easier to maintain a healthy starter (easier than dump and feed every day) and (2) improve tanginess. The poolish (a.k.a. Winnie) lives in my 34 deg. F. refrigerator 5 days a week (Mon - Fri).

      On Saturday around noon, I remove Winnie to the counter top and give him a few hours to warm up, wake up, and feed a bit. Somewhere around 5 - 6 PM, I perform a normal dump and feed.

      On Sunday, around noon, I perform another normal dump and feed. Winnie then sits on the counter munching on the newly added flour and water until about 5 - 6 PM he is returned to the refrigerator without having completely finished his last weekend meal.

      This past weekend, I performed the above Saturday and Sunday ritual but with one difference. Saturday evening, I did the usual dump and feed and then I took the "dumped" 100 g half of Winnie and used it to prep a second 500 g poolish for overnight prefermentation and then for baking a loaf on Monday. The preferment poolish consisted of 100 g active starter from Winnie (25 g bread flour + 25 g WW flour + 50 g water) to which I added 200 g bread flour + 200 g water. The preferment sat covered overnight in preparation for a noon baking session.

      Overnight, the preferment peaked rising (more than doubling its volume) somewhere between 4 and 6 AM ... way before time to bake (which is what I expected and had prepared for).

      At noon, when I started assembling the 75% hydration dough, the preferment had collapsed back to little more than it's original volume from the night before ... not a problem because I was more interested in the sourdough flavor it provided than in it's ability to rise the dough. It's lack of "oomph" merely meant that I'd need to cheat by adding a bit of commercial yeast as a "kicker" to the dough.

      I used the Forkish technique in which everything is mixed (including 1/4 tsp (approx. .1 g) of commercial yeast) in a 12 qt bench bucket, then folded, pulled and folded some more, then allowed to bulk ferment for roughly 2 - 3 hours ... all of which went quite normally. Once the dough had nearly tripled in volume (I'm at 6300 ft. so that's OK), I turned it out onto my lightly floured work surface and shaped the boule with 5 or 6 tension pulls. Again ... all went normally.

      The boule was placed seam side down (this is Forkish!) into a banneton until it passed the finger dent test in nearly an hour.

      It was then baked seam side up (still channeling Forkish) for 30 minutes at 475 deg. F. covered, then uncovered for about 25 more minutes.

      Pictures below show the result. The crust was thin and very crisp. Crumb was light, airy, and moist (thank you 75% hydration). Oven spring was good, the loaf burst nicely along the seam, and the resulting ears were charred nicely.

      Flavor was excellent ... almost buttery. I would characterize the sourdough tanginess as moderate. It was most noticeable in the crust ... but you could tell you were eating sourdough, albeit a bit subtle, from just the taste of the crumb. This means that my new poolish maintenance routine, while easier on me during the week, did little or nothing to enhance the sourness of the bread.

      While scratching my head over the results, I did find an interesting link to a discussion on controlling SD sourness which might be helpful for the next iteration:

      https://brodandtaylor.com/make-sourdough-more-sour/

      And now the pics (before returning to the drawing board):

      Click image for larger version  Name:	Loaf 20170206-1.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.37 MB ID:	272471

      Click image for larger version  Name:	Loaf 20170206-2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	2.21 MB ID:	272472
      Last edited by MBMorgan; February 7th, 2017, 06:32 PM.

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      • RonB
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        • Apr 2016
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        That's a great looking boule Mbmorgan . I've read that Brod and Taylor stuff - they also have ideas how to make sourdough less sour. I find the typical sourdough tang unpleasant, so I was trying to go the other way - less sour. I don't know if I will try sourdough again because I was never successful in removing all the sour. However, I keep reading how amazing the flavor can be if all the sour is removed, so I won't say never...

        Comment

        • Willy
          Charter Member
          • Apr 2015
          • 1766
          • High Desert of the Great Southwest

          @mbmorgan: LOL I think a sourdough baker’s motto should be YMMV! He**’s bells, even my OWN mileage varies!
          I am giving up (sort of) on keeping a starter, though I’ll likely freeze some of my new once for later experiments. In my environment, I can get a brand new starter to pass the float test in 2-4 days (it varies—LOL). My wild yeasts are a** kickers!. Alas, my LAB aren’t so trustworthy. I reliably get excellent tang from a new starter (I’m beginning to think most of my tang is lactic, not acetic), but no matter how I’ve stored—fridge, room temp, wine cooler—the tang just fades. The yeast stays great and I can take a fallen batch of poolish and make a new loaf (with great rising and oven spring) in under five hours. I’d encourage you to try and use a starter “past it’s prime” with no commercial yeast boost; I’d bet dollars to donuts you’ll be just fine.

          Anyway, my new starter floated yesterday (four days this time), so I made a 70 % hydration Stella Culinary loaf using all bread flour and 300 grams of poolish (50/50 BF and WW). Straight into the fridge overnight. I did some S&Fs and TPs this AM, then back into the fridge. Just a few minutes ago, I did another S&F and two TPs. Into the banneton it went and I’m’ letting it sit at room temp for an hour or so before returning to the fridge. Tomorrow, straight from the fridge to the oven, assuming a decent proof. Part of this comes from Purdy’s “Pie in the Sky” ideas that I posted about yesterday. I don’t have any elevation related troubles at 5,000 minus feet, but I thought her "underproof and add an extra rise" ideas worth looking at and Vinnie needs refrigeration to stay under control.

          We’ll see--although based on the first two rises and the presence of surface blisters, I am quite optimistic. Let there be tang!

          BTW—NICE LOAF!

          Comment

          • scottranda
            Charter Member
            • May 2015
            • 1419
            • Charlotte, NC

            By the way, I have stopped the float test. If it looks active, it's good enough to use 2% of the starter (20g) and do an overnight preferment. Hasn't failed me yet. In the morning, it's always extremely bubbly. And will have enough to rise the dough.

            Comment


            • Potkettleblack
              Potkettleblack commented
              Editing a comment
              Yeah, have dough hooks for my beater. Hoping to use them to simplify, but I enjoy the hands on process.

            • Willy
              Willy commented
              Editing a comment
              scottranda I'm with you on the mixing too. Knead with the KA! Do you break your kneading times into 4 minute increments?

            • scottranda
              scottranda commented
              Editing a comment
              Willy nope. I do it all at once. Mix slowly for ~45 seconds, then beat it with dough hook on high for around 4 min until it passes the windowpane test. I know what it looks like when it's properly beaten! Easy!
          • Willy
            Charter Member
            • Apr 2015
            • 1766
            • High Desert of the Great Southwest

            So, the "refrigerator loaf" I wrote about not too far above got baked today after about 26 hours in the chill chest and one hour last night at room temp. I'mm starting to feel cocky--not a good sign! I'm due for a big fall. Click image for larger version

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            Comment


            • RonB
              RonB commented
              Editing a comment
              That's a great lookin' boule Willy.

            • Thunder77
              Thunder77 commented
              Editing a comment
              Ok you foul fiend! I ate dinner an hour ago, and now you have made me hungry again!!! 😂😂😂 Great looking bread!
          • scottranda
            Charter Member
            • May 2015
            • 1419
            • Charlotte, NC

            I'm having some problems with getting consistent results for final shaping. I feel like my dough is pretty gassy when I final shape, which (for me) makes it hard to stretch and fold the very last time, so then the bottom of my dough is breaking apart (ie, I need to pinch it together). I just have way too many areas to pinch together, and I don't feel like I get that perfect seal, so then when I proof and score the top, I get the beautiful oven spring and ears. I need some help in this area for final shaping. Should I de-gas it the last time before final shaping?

            By the way, my bread tastes awesome, just need to make it look like a high quality artisan baker made it (I get it right once in a while).

            Comment


            • RonB
              RonB commented
              Editing a comment
              scottranda - I just made a 75% hydration fendu today, and it was wet enough that it would easily stick together without pinching. What's the hydration of your dough?

            • scottranda
              scottranda commented
              Editing a comment
              RonB typically 70%. I may go higher since I feel comfortable with it already.

            • Thunder77
              Thunder77 commented
              Editing a comment
              Also, if you are using any flour during stretch and folds, keep it away from the seams, or they won't ever properly seal. You can also run a damp finger over the dough to help seal.
          • RonB
            Club Member
            • Apr 2016
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            As mentioned above, I made Forkish's white bread with poolish today - well I made the poolish last night... Overall I am pleased - tasted great anyway, but I forgot to turn the oven on until about 30 min into the final proofing. So the dough was ready before the oven. Then I decided to go ahead and prep the dough, (shape a fendu), so that I could stick the dough in the oven as soon at the baking steel was up to temp. That was a bad idea because the dough started to spread and it got too wide to fit the CI dutch oven over it. I wound up using a large disposable roasting pan to cover the dough. That worked well enough, but the dough had already spread out, so I didn't get the vertical rise I was looking for. Still good enough to eat though.

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            Click image for larger version  Name:	CM7I1207.jpg Views:	1 Size:	392.6 KB ID:	276546

            Comment


            • Thunder77
              Thunder77 commented
              Editing a comment
              I would eat that bread any day!! 👍👍

            • Potkettleblack
              Potkettleblack commented
              Editing a comment
              I like the fendu. Sorry it spread more than you wanted.
          • Thunder77
            Founding Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 2488
            • Halethorpe, MD
            • Weber 22.5" Kettle with SnS Brinkmann 5 burner gasser. Akorn Kamado, and Akorn Jr kamado. Love grilling steaks, ribs, and chicken. Need to master smoked salmon Favorite cool weather beer: Sam Adams Octoberfest Favorite warm weather beer: Yuengling Traditional Lager All-time favorite drink: Single Malt Scotch

            Just a simple 66% hydration boule and batard, but damn they came out pretty well! 1 kilo sized loaves. 50/50 whole wheat and bread flour starter at 100% hydration.

            1 kilo bread flour
            600 grams water
            400 grams starter
            25 grams salt.
            2 kilos total, divided into two loaves.
            Attached Files

            Comment


            • Willy
              Willy commented
              Editing a comment
              Nice job! I do believe we have the same bread knife.

            • Thunder77
              Thunder77 commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks! That is a Mercer Culinary millennia knife. Great deal on Amazon, and very sharp!
          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 1

            Greetings my bread making buddies...

            i apologize for neglecting this thread for the last couple of months... I've been distracted.

            I've not BBQ'ed or baked Bread for the last 60 days because I've devoted all of my time and effort to quitting smoking, quitting drinking and losing weight.

            After 50 years of heavy smoking that's not easy.

            Today was 60 days without a cigarette, I cheated a little bit with some wine with dinner and I'm down 25 pounds. I've walked about 400 miles and all is good!

            I have no clue why I quit making bread and BBQing really. I even let my starter die.😡

            I just know what I'm doing is not easy. It requires great focus and determination. I'm sure eventually things will return to normal.

            In the meantime... keep showing me your great bread pictures.🤙

            Comment


            • MBMorgan
              MBMorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              I suspect that baking and BBQ have become "triggers" for you to indulge in drinking and smoking. I think it's smart to eliminate the triggers until you've got the indulgences under control. Just don't forget to get back in the baking/BBQ saddle when it's appropriate to do so. Hang in there ...

            • backmarker
              backmarker commented
              Editing a comment
              Great results Breadhead. Imagine carrying that extra 25 lb in your arms over 400 miles. No wonder the old ticker feels the strain. I'd echo the other comments - you have inspired a passion in many members here and we all wish you the best...hang in there!

            • Steve Vojtek
              Steve Vojtek commented
              Editing a comment
              A big +1 on all of the above!
              Inspiring!!!
          • Gooner-que
            Club Member
            • Sep 2015
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              • USAF

            Breadhead keep taking it one day at a time. I found that baking, BBQ, and roasting coffee, has helped me to focus my energy while taking it one day at a time. Stay strong.

            Comment


            • Breadhead
              Breadhead commented
              Editing a comment
              Today is day 85... everything is going as planned.👍
          • Steve Vojtek
            Charter Member
            • Mar 2015
            • 613
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            • 6 & 2 burner gas BBQ's
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              Scotch whiskey various brands
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              And beer ....
              And at work just plain old chilled water....

            Wow this has become huge. One day I'll have to catch up on reading all this - there must be a lot of info here that I've missed out on during my break.
            I've had to take a break cause lack of sleep and my gruelling work schedule was messing me up (AR is addictive!). I'm back but with some restraint. Instead of a quick sprint I want to be here for a marathon if you know what I mean. I don't bake as often as I would like to but I still do.....
            I started with Chef Jacob's 70% hydration boule and that's what I stuck with. I figured to learn how to do a recipe I have to stick to a ' proven' recipe and not change things. Even though it all seemed overwhelming at first - and frustrating because of repetition it is much easier now. I'm still not an expert but I've baked some really great bread. My latest one is from a week ago and not the best I can do but I will still share it.
            The bulk ferment and final proofing was done in the fridge because of my work schedule.. The problem with this boule was that I got caught up reading on AR and it was sitting on my kitchen bench ( it is summer and quite hot here ) for 2 hours before I realized I forgot to preheat the DO and oven!
            Damn I thought I didn't want to mess up the first boule I wanted to share with you guys. So I quickly put the DO into the oven and turned it on. The boule passed the poke test and I was really worried about over proofing it so after 10 mins or so preheating I put it in. I left the lid on longer thinking it may help. Well the result is that I didn't get the usual oven spring but it was still a good boule. Not a total disaster.
            I have to add that I used 00 flour with 12.5% protein cause I bought a 10 kg bag not knowing what it was - now I have to use it and have about a quarter of it left. I've been using it for bread, pizza and foccacias.

            I started slicing and then " hold your horses I have to take pics!" LOL

            Click image for larger version

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            Good luck with your journey ( quitting smoking and drinking and loosing weight ) and I hope you'll be back to baking and barbecuing soon. Breadhead

            Comment


            • Steve Vojtek
              Steve Vojtek commented
              Editing a comment
              Thank you both I appreciate the comments..
              Earlier in this thread ( when I bought my new oven ) I mentioned that my breadbaking oven resides in my garage... Too big and troublesome to build into my kitchen.... It makes things easier in summer...
              Thunder77 ..

            • Breadhead
              Breadhead commented
              Editing a comment
              You still got it Steve... that's a nice looking loaf of sourdough bread! Now on to 75% hydration bread. I can't wait to see your attempt at that. Google Ken Forkish on YouTube. He has lots of great videos about his techniques.

            • Steve Vojtek
              Steve Vojtek commented
              Editing a comment
              I like a challenge Breadhead. I will review the vids from your other post and give it a go. Nothing ventured nothing gained they say... I'm excited and I'll give it my best go...thank you..

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          G&F Suede Welder's Gloves

          Heat Resistant Gloves With Extra Long Sleeves Hold The Hot Stuff

          If you're using oven mitts at the grill, it's time to trade up. Say hello to these suede welder's gloves. They're heat resistant enough to handle hot grill grates, and flexible enough to handle tongs. The extra long sleeves even let you reach deep into the firebox to move hot logs without getting burned. Our Fave.

          Click here to read our detailed review

          Click here to order from Amazon


          GrillGrates Take Gas Grills To The Infrared Zone

          grill grates

          GrillGrates(TM) amplify heat, prevent flareups, make flipping foods easier, keep small foods from committing suicide, kill hotspots, are easier to clean, flip over to make a fine griddle, and can be easily removed and moved from one grill to another. You can even throw wood chips, pellets, or sawdust between the rails and deliver a quick burst of smoke to whatever is above. Every gas grill needs them.

          Click here for more about what makes these grates so special


          kareubequ bbq smoker

          Our Favorite Backyard Smoker

          The amazing Karubecue is the most innovative smoker in the world. The quality of meat from this machine is astonishing. At its crux is a patented firebox that burns logs above the cooking chamber and sucks heat and extremely clean blue smoke into the thermostat controlled oven. It is our favorite smoker, period.

          Click here for our review of this superb smoker


          Masterbuilt MPS 340/G ThermoTemp XL Propane Smoker

          masterbuilt gas smoker

          The First Propane Smoker With A Thermostat Makes This Baby Foolproof

          Set ThermoTemp's dial from 175° to 350°F and the thermostat inside will adjust the burner just like an indoor kitchen oven. All you need to do is add wood to the tray above the burner to start smokin'.

          Click here to read our detailed review


          Professional Steakhouse Knife Set

          masterbuilt gas smoker

          Our founder, Meathead, wanted the same steak knives used by steakhouses such as Peter Luger, Smith & Wollensky, Morton's, Kobe Club, Palm, and many others. So he located the manufacturer and had them stamp our name on some. They boast pointed, temper-ground, serrated, high-carbon stainless-steel, half-tang blades with excellent cutting edge ability. The beefy hardwood handle provides a comfortable grip secured by three hefty rivets. He has machine washed his more than 100 times. They have never rusted and they stay shiny without polishing. Please note that we do not make, sell, or distribute these knives, they just engrave them with our name.

          Click here to read our detailed review and to order


          PK 360 grill

          Is This Superb Charcoal Grill A Kamado Killer?

          The PK-360, with 360 square inches of cooking space, this rust free, cast aluminum charcoal grill is durable and easy to use. Four-way venting means it's easy to set up for two zone cooking with more control than single vent Kamado grills. It is much easier to set up for 2-zone cooking than any round kamado. Beautifully designed and completely portable. Meathead says it is his preferrred grill.

          Click here to read our detailed review of the PK 360

          Click here to order it direct from PK and get a special deal for AmazingRibs.com readers only


          Fireboard: The Ultimate Top Of The Line BBQ Thermometer

          fireboard bbq thermometer

          With the ability to monitor up to six temperatures simultaneously with either Bluetooth or Wifi on your mobile phone, tablet, or computer, Fireboard is the best digital thermometer we’ve tested.

          Click here to read our detailed review


          Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

          Green Mountain Davey Crockett Grill

          Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

          Click here to read our detailed review and to order