How to make sourdough bread...

[Breadhead]

Great article. I relate to this paragraph...

More directly, there’s the time it takes to make the individual loaf — the mixing, fermenting, kneading, proving, proving again, shaping, rising and final introduction to the oven. If you’re making sourdough and start at 7am, you can have bread just about ready — still cooling — in time to accompany supper. When you are in a relationship with time, you are in some sense meditating; the repetitive physical process of kneading (or, for the Lepard-ite, kneading and reshaping, kneading and reshaping) leaves your mind wonderfully uncluttered and attentive. You are working at the loaf’s pace, and you draw from it exactly the satisfaction that fishermen draw from fishing.

Touching and feeling dough with my eyes closed I can feel where the dough is... it's talking to me. Sometimes it says give me more work, kneading. Sometimes it says not now, take your hands off of me, I need time to relax.

Once you understand your dough's message to you, you are on the edge of becoming a Master bread maker. Once you can make every loaf and every type of loaf look truly beautiful... you ARE a Master bread maker.🤗

I aspire to become a Master bread maker because it makes me feel good. I like to make it much more than I like to eat it. I find it easy to give my loaves away. I've thought of opening a stand at the Hermosa Beach farmers market to sell it but that would make it a job.😡

[Potkettleblack]

If it's your passion, is it really a job?
I really got the handle on hand mixing ingredients to even distribution with the walnuts. Having a big thing to distribute evenly was proof of concept for me.

[Breadhead]

I make one or 2 loaves at a time, that's a hobby. If I have to make 50 loaves a week, that's a job.🙈 I had a guy that owns a popular delicatessen ask me to make Brioche buns for him. I gave him the recipe.👍 I add my solids, nuts and or etc during the stretch and fold process. How do you do yours?

[Potkettleblack]

Do the pincers and fold step of forkish, then mix in solids, then pincers and fold until evenly incorporated. I think Forkish wants you to be sure the dough in well mixed before adding the nuts.

[Breadhead]

Putting a boule into a preheated 500° Dutch Oven is not easy... for you guys baking your bread in a DO here's an interesting new wrinkle.🤗

http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017/07/05/baking-in-a-cold-dutch-oven/

[MBMorgan]

Putting a boule into a preheated 500° Dutch Oven is not easy... for you guys baking your bread in a DO here's an interesting new wrinkle.🤗

http://blog.kingarthurflour.com/2017...ld-dutch-oven/

Interesting article from the KAF people (thanks, Brian!) ... but putting a boule into a preheated 500° dutch oven is dead easy ... if your DO is a Lodge 5 qt. and the DO "lid" (lower right) is used as the base on which to place the boule and the DO "bottom" (upper left) is the lid to cover the boule.

[Breadhead]

True that! But 500° is still hot. I rarely use a DO but I might try mine again just to test this crazy idea.🤔

[Thunder77]

It works very well. Just make sure the top and bottom handles are not lined up, so it's easier to get the top off! (Ask me how I know) 😜

[MBMorgan]

Ah yes ... the "handle alignment lesson". We all do it once.

[BBQ_Bill]

My Brother-in-Law is the sourdough bread "Guru" in our family.
I need to have him read this thread.
He is wanting to open a business, adding many family food favorites, my BBQ, Chili and his MOST EXCELLENT bread.
I have no clue how to make bread, but Chili? THE BEST IN THE STATE OF ARIZONA!
SHOULD go really well with his sourdough bread!
S. O.

[HouseHomey]

I would love be your chili recipe if it's available.

[BBQ_Bill]

HouseHomey 1st, I purchase the best red Chile powder known to man and woman (in my opinion) from a kind and knowledgeable lady in New Mexico.
It is very basic, namely NuMex (New Mexico) 6-4 Heritage.
It is ripened to a beautiful red color, roasted and ground into powder by a rancher in the Hatch Valley.
THIS is the base on which I build the red chili dish.
HOWEVER, THIS thread is about bread.
So...
I will send you a private message.
S. O.

[MBMorgan]

Gents ... be aware that the PM system is down at the moment. You might want to start a recipe thread instead.

[BBQ_Bill]

Ah... after a very detailed message, this sad truth "slapped" me in the head.
Thank you kind sir for the "wake-up" call.

[HouseHomey]

Thank you for you effort sir. I will patiently await. Respectful Bow to you.

[BBQ_Bill]

Going to the thread named: What's your Chili "Base"?
It was started by Abom back just before Christmas last year.

[BBQ_Bill]

Thanks man, U Rock!

[Spinaker]

No problem, my friend BBQ_Bill

[BBQ_Bill]

I do NOT like posting on #666

[ComfortablyNumb]

Reminds me of when I was once being drug tested (required for CDL holders) My SS# contains five '6` of which three are in succession. The lady performing the test did not want to do it.

[BBQ_Bill]

HouseHomey please click on this link > What's Your Chili "Base"?
Then scroll down to Posts #20 thru #22 to read about the chili my Mother and I make and the story behind it.

[Thunder77]

The Akorn makes a great bread oven! I let these go just a bit too long, but I am still getting used to the Akorn. They were still delicious! Just a couple of standard 70% hydration loaves. I love the fact that I can bake in the summer without heating up the kitchen!

[Thunder77]

I went with 500 degrees on this bake.

[Spinaker]

Looks great!

[RonB]

Pass the butter please...

[scottranda]

I've made only a few loaves the past few months due to my travel schedule at work. I'm still visiting Salt Lake City about every other week, or every 3rd week. Quite the journey to get there, and when I'm home I'm either working, hanging with my wife, or playing with my 17 month old.

Two nights ago, I started a preferment with 50/50 flour and water, but I added 15g of Vital Wheat Gluten. In the morning, I added the rest of the flour/water, then started to knead it. It was soupy! It was like there was too much water in it (there wasn't because I calculated it correctly), and very little gluten strands developed.

I'm pretty sure it had to be with the amount of VWG I added. Most only recommend a table/tea spoon, but I probably doubled or tripled that (I'm guess with 15g).

Do you think because my dough was soupy was because of the amount of VWG I added? Have you run into this issue?

How much VWG do you use? And do you normally add it to the pre-ferment or do you add it right before you start kneading?

By the way, I salvaged the entire thing because I dumped some out, and added a bunch more flour. Who knows what my hydration was, but it was the only way it was going to work.

I'm also not keeping a starter any more due to my travel schedule If you all use instant yeast, how much are you putting in the pre-ferment vs. the next day?

My son is obsessed with my bread. He calls it "Bah" and he can't get enough of it! He's going to be a junior bread head!

[Thunder77]

Scott, as long as you are home at least every two weeks, you can maintain a starter in the fridge.

[scottranda]

Thunder77 I know. I just am getting too lazy bc of my travel schedule. I need convenient right now. I’ll go back to sourdough eventually.

[Thunder77]

I hear you! Convenient is good! 😎

[Willy]

scottranda I have used VWG at 2% for a bagel recipe that used about 1,000 grams of flour, so 20 grams of VWG. It worked fine for a 57% hydration recipe--very stiff dough. I added at the 2% rate for both the pre-ferment and the final dough, treating it as if was was just part of the total flour for each addition. I can't understand how VWG would make things soupy. Maybe a measurement error?

Edit add-on: A bit more detail: I used Reinhart's BBA ("Bread Baker''s Apprentice") bagel recipe, which calls for about half of the flour and ALL of the water to be in the pre-ferment, so, well over 100% hydration and very soupy for the PF. I treated VWG as flour, so, for 1,000 grams of 'flour", I did 980 grams of KA BF plus 20 grams of VWG. This recipe makes GREAT bagels--very chewy. I think BBA is a great book for bread bakers

[scottranda]

Who the heck knows. One other time I ran into a very soupy dough (months and months ago), but I can't remember if I used VWG or not. I had to dump that whole batch out (didn't even try to salvage it... but I HAD to salvage yesterday's dough). I'm going to keep an eye on it for now on.

[MBMorgan]

I'm also not keeping a starter any more due to my travel schedule If you all use instant yeast, how much are you putting in the pre-ferment vs. the next day?

Scott ... Like you, I've let the starter fall by the wayside (pretty much for the same reason). When I bake a large (1750g) loaf with a preferment, I generally use 0.4g (scant 1/8 tsp) commercial yeast in the preferment and 3g (about 3/4 tsp) in the next-day dough.

[scottranda]

Long fermentation dough is the only way to go... glad to see you've been able to incorporate commercial yeast into the pre-ferment. I'm incorporating just a pinch, but ti doesn't seem to "bubble" much the next day. I always have to add more the 2nd day.

[MBMorgan]

scottranda - If you have a copy of Forkish's FWSY, it's the "White Bread with Poolish" formula that I often bake.

[Willy]

Regarding starters: I have continued to have trouble with mine becoming "acetone-y", so, I've purchased a starter from KA (I'm spending money to do an experiment for y'all--and me, too LOL ). I know the conventional wisdom is that a starter will eventually be over-taken by "local" bugs, but I'm trying this anyway, because I've read other convention wisdom that says an established starter will out compete invaders. Alas, I am skeptical of most conventional wisdom regarding bread. Anyway, so far, the KA starter has NOT become tainted with acetone, but it's only about 4 weeks old. I will post again on this as the experiment progresses. I am also doing my normal starter side-by-side as a control; it's OK so far too.

[scottranda]

Excellent! Looking forward to the results!

[Potkettleblack]

I went with a KA starter, and have been running it for months. It is very hearty, in that I have left it unfed in my 45-55* fridge for up to 3 weeks without killing it.
I dunno if it's been colonized by the yeast on the KA white flour and Bob's Red Mill Whole Rye I've been feeding it, but it is robust and makes tasty bread. Since the local whatever killed my previous experiment, I'm not sure.

[Thunder77]

I maintain a starter in my fridge that I feed once a week. It is very robust so far.

[Willy]

Potkettleblack I think, which is to say I think I know but might be wrong, that yeasts have very little influence on flavor. It's the lactobacillus bacteria that give the sour flavors, plus, in my case, some strain of bacteria that ends up leading to the off-flavor of acetone, which is pretty strong smelling. My starters have all become very active within 3-4 days and easily pass the float test, which I attribute to yeast activity. I don't think the bacteria do much in terms of producing CO2 and I think the bacteria takes much longer to get a good foothold than does the yeast, which is why I think that whatever yields acetone is able to establish its own foothold. I am hoping the KA starter is "infected" by so many good guys that bad acetone guys don't have a chance. We shall see; my hopes have been dashed before.

If any of y'all think differently, please chime in.

[Potkettleblack]

I think you're bailing on your starters for no reason.

http://www.breadmatters.com/sourdough-faq#5

My starter smells of pear drops/nail varnish remover/paint stripper. Is it safe to use?

Problem

Starters, usually wheat and usually ones that have been kept in a not-very-cool place for a while, begin to smell rather ‘chemical’.

What to do

This a fairly common occurrence with wheat starters, especially in summer: they start smelling of ‘pear drops’, i.e. a bit chemical. The smell is actually acetone. Under certain conditions, the lactic acid bacteria in the sourdough produce copious amounts of acetic acid which gives the familiar vinegar smell. Another couple of chemical steps and this can turn into acetone. It can be a bit alarming to sniff your sourdough and get the aroma of nail varnish remover, but it is nothing to worry about. As soon as you dilute the sourdough by refreshing it with flour and water, the smell goes.

If you want to delay the onset of the acetone effect, you can stiffen up your starter by adding flour to the pot of it that you keep in the fridge. A stiffer sour will work more slowly, but, in the long run, will produce more acetic than lactic acid.


Mileage may vary.