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Ernest I spent a fair amount of time chatting on the phone with Bill as well as his partner (Laurie) in their commercial venture about their very cool KBQ 400.
I even went as far as discussing a quote with Laurie for specific "add-ons" with two of them being gas assist and self-cleaning.
After looking at the price and the possible diversities of this incredibly well designed KBQ 400 smoker, I told Bill that I had decided to simply go with more C-60 units for this "1st run" at it.
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My reasoning was basically due to multiple advantages of a "small time, starting-out-slow guy" like me in running more C-60's, with but a few detriments. (In my way of looking at it)
Fact is, after our discussions, and my thinking about the possible options...
1) The 400 still sadly has the same 20 to 35 minute wood add, which means someone has to be there all the time and the "keeper-of-the-flame" cannot go away for long to do other things a business requires, he/she is stuck there watching the fire.
2) If wanting to cook say... pork as well as brisket, the 400 is not the machine to do that in as the meat is "Ferris Wheeled" so any dripping product will fall on the meat below it unless some add-on "catcher" (that I didn't hear about) is employed below each level/layer of meat.
3) Price was also a big advantage as I can purchase one 400 that will cook 23 packers, or 8 each C-60's and cook 24 packers with a price difference of $12,000 which is $500 per packer in one cook, versus $23,000 or $1000 per packer in one cook. (My weird math)
4) Versatility was another huge consideration, where 8 each C-60's could conceivably smoke pork shoulder, brisket, beef ribs, pork ribs, chicken, turkey, sausage and salmon... all at the same time and all at different temperatures as needed.
5) Running Apple wood on my pork and Mesquite on my beef at the same time is another easy task with multiple C-60's and not possible with a 400.
6) If running 8 C-60's and a controller goes bad, I have a spare one on the shelf that I have already bought "just in case" and it will work on any of them, changing out in seconds.
Plus, the C-60 controller is a very basic/simple unit to troubleshoot and repair, whereas the controller on a 400 is much more complicated and with more bells and whistles, there is more to fail.
7) If on one day I have a few smallish orders of this and that, say six apple smoked pork shoulders and six oak smoked packers, 4 each C-60's would be the "master" of that situation and a 400 would take way longer as one meat group would have to "wait in line" so to speak.
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A big-time restaurant with hundreds of customers daily could buy several KBQ 400's and that would be the "cat's meow" for their situation.
I am sure that I am not seeing the advantages of a single 400 unit as clearly as I should, probably because I have already committed to the "path" of multiple C-60's, but with currently having 4 units, I am half way "there" to my goal at this stage in the game, plus, I own them and am not still making payments.
Smoke On!Last edited by BBQ_Bill; December 17, 2019, 12:26 AM.
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Thank you for the kind compliment Ernest.
I currently "fire up" each KBQ as orders fill them.
All product is held hot and ready to eat.
After sales, my family eats any leftovers.
With that way of operating and thinking, my customers and I would be waiting longer if I went the other route.
My decision from the start has been to slice and serve paying customers fresh cooked/smoked product, never chilled and then reheated.
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BBQ_Bill that is how my son and I are trying to do it, "slice and serve" Goal of 6 KBQ's. Your maths makes good sense for the little guy.
The regulations to do a food trailer are making what we want to do very difficult though.
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Club Member
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- Oceanside, CA / Milwaukee, WI
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BBQ_Bill What are your current poppet settings for cooking with the KBQ?Last edited by lostclusters; December 18, 2019, 11:28 AM.
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Howdy @lostclusters
For a stock, unmodified KBQ, my settings were a fully open bottom and 1/4" top poppet.
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After adding my latest "Mod" the top poppet is completely closed, basically "sealed" and no longer used.
With this mod, heavy smoke input is first measured by sized port plug inserts, and then any ash is removed before this smoke passes through the coal tray.
This idea/design is intended to increase smoke flavor on product without introducing any ash.
To adjust smoke flavor, the port plug size is changed.
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It was the result of frustration when trying to get more smoke flavor, and ending up with more ash on the meat.
More on this mod later after trialing is completed.
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BBQ_Bill. I'm always fascinated with you posts and depth of knowledge on the KBQ. Are you selling the poppet mods (or any other mods) yet? The door mod was great. Please let me know of others for sale, esp. when you write your "How to Smoke On the KBQ" book!
The OmegaDog
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@OmegaDog12
I am still trialing the "poppet mod" and do not have enough data at this time to know if it is worthwhile.
IF this mod successfully does what it was designed to do, I will sell them here at AR at near my cost.
On another note... maybe when I retire, I will have time to publish a book.
Way too busy now, especially after my wife broke her leg in an accident.
I have become the "wife" doing most of what she did, plus what I normally do.
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BBQ_Bill Sorry to hear about your wife's leg fracture. My wife used to point out that she did everything around the house, AND everything I normally do! Women are tough! And to be feared and respected. 🙄Last edited by Dr. Pepper; January 7, 2020, 08:11 PM.
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Ernest Looks like you applied lipstick to those beef ribs!
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Dr. Pepper freezer trick........
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Tips for Your Next Beef Rib Smoke/Cook
Please examine the photos closely of the Ernest beef plate rib smoke/cook above.
Note the nice thick bark.
Your bark will NOT be near as good if you leave the surface fat on as shown in the photo below.
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Beef plate ribs are very marbled with fat, similar to a prime point on a brisket, so they will not dry out like a brisket flat will.
Basically, there is no need to leave the surface fat on trying to prevent them from drying out in the smoke/cook.
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Again, bark does not build well on fatty surfaces, and a smoke ring will not develop well either, so remember to remove all surface fat on these rich fatty ribs.
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As a note...
4-Rib Beef Chuck (NAMP 130) are similar, so remove the external fat on them when trimming to get better bark.
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Also, you might consider 40 pound peach butcher paper wrapping after the color is good and bumping the temperature up to help render out more of the internal fat.
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FYI, wrapping in aluminum foil will hold the rendered oil in, and then you will be "frying" that wonderful bark you just built in hot oil, which is not a good thing.
Just like with a packer brisket, 40 pound peach butcher paper allows the rendered fat (hot oil) to drip through (into a cookie sheet below) and holds the gelatin and moisture in which IS a good thing, building incredible flavor into the bark.
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Please note that these two cuts, the 3-rib Plate as well as the 4-rib Chuck are incredibly rich and fatty, so a little fat rendering into oil, and getting rid of it is a good thing.
Smoke On!Last edited by BBQ_Bill; January 7, 2020, 07:51 PM. Reason: Thought that some advice regarding foil versus paper was needed.
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Last edited by texastweeter; December 26, 2019, 12:02 AM.
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texastweeter What brand is the knife in picture #2? The Damascus is awesome.
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frigate Dalstrong Shogun series slicer.
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texastweeter I have recently converted to Dalstrong knives! FANTASTIC
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My New Year's Day Cook
Locally all I have been able to get are brisket flats. I found an area butcher who got get me a full packer. Noon time 12/31/19 I pickup a 12.6 lb. full packer.
The first brisket i cooked was dry. The Admiral said I needed to do something about that. So i started making injections. After a few tries I got one we both liked.
Frigate’s Brisket Injection Ver. 1.0
2 cups of beef broth
½ cup of Worcestershire sauce
1 ½ scoops Butcher Beef powder
¼ cup Butcher’s Phosphate
2 tablespoons granulated garlic
2 teaspoons onion powder
Bring beef broth and Worcestershire sauce to a boil over medium heat. Decrease heat to a simmer. Whisk in the Butcher powder, phosphate, granulated garlic and onion powder. Continue to simmer until the stock is reduced by one third. Refrigerate till cool.
Trimmed the brisket and injected it. The Admiral gets a kick out of the brisket looking like the former governor of CA after I inject it. Then I used my rub from page 101 post #1515. Next the brisket went into the refrigerator over night.
6:00AM
01/01/20 start the fire using cherry wood. 6:15AM the fire is at 275 degrees F. Brisket out of the refrigerator and into the smoker. Point end to back of smoker.
3:53PM
The brisket was at 203 degrees F internal temp. and the temp. probe move in the brisket like in butter.
4:00PM-6:00PM
The brisket rested then we eat.
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No after pictures of this cook.
First I tried marinading but the marinade did not get very deep into the meat and was a real mess to deal with. I do a lot of reading. Have the competition and back yard books from Mixon, Cookston, Franklin and Stone. Also have Meathead's book. Took parts from different books and mixed together. A lot of trail and error but with each trail we got closer to what we both like.
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