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**BBQ_Bill** · November 24, 2018, 10:47 AM

BRISKET FLAT MOISTNESS
I've recently noticed something a bit odd that I would like to share with my friends here.
It is the way the brisket flat surface looks visually immediately after the brisket is cut in half.
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It's hard to describe, and I have not read of this meat surface "attribute" anywhere else on the web.
Am wanting to share it here with the KBQ family and those that are struggling to get a moist brisket flat.
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In examining the surface of the meat of a brisket that has just freshly been cut, I noticed something that caught my eye.
A really moist flat, versus a dryer flat has a slightly different look besides the obvious moisture we see in some web photos.
I am aware that one might spray oil or water on the surface to "fake" a moist flat, but I don't believe that this attribute can be faked. (Am not sure though as this is a new discovery)
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Please bear with me as I may be in some "odd and foreign land of smoke" on this...
Photos with descriptions will show this best, and are to follow shortly when I get them together.
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My thoughts are that the openings, or gaps in the surface of the cut flat increase in size and number when the meat is dry and are closed and few when it is more moist.
If I can see fat that is not totally rendered in gaps of the point, that seems normal.
There is less fat in the flat, and lots of gaps as seen in the top left photos appears to me to be really dry.
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This observation may mean absolutely nothing, and I may delete this post.
Upon further research, I will decide whether I am as mentioned, "In a smoky and far away land" or I am "on cue."

Time will tell.

**Dr. Pepper** · November 25, 2018, 10:29 AM

I have been following you two (Bill and Rfuilrez). I'm impressed. I can innovate in suturing humans (surgeon), but am helpless when it comes to modifying metal to solve a problem. I would purchase a pair of these pins when they are available. Removing the door would make clean up much more efficient and thorough.
Question: Has anyone made a cover for their C-60? I wrote to Bill K, but he doesn't sell any. I put my C-60 in the back of the minivan and brought it to a boat cover/reupholster (Seattle area). They measured, took photos, and called me back later with a $650 price for one out of Sunbrella! No thanks. My thought was a cover which would go over the top with the firebox attached. This would give a nice pitch to shed water. It should of course be a few cm shy of the ground. Could also keep the controller in place underneath the cover. If someone made these, I bet they would have a reasonably sized market to sell to here.

**Dr. Pepper** · November 25, 2018, 11:10 AM

Stowing inside the cookbox means you have to keep a clean cookbox, and move grates around........ðŸ˜
BTW, Comfortably Numb, I just looked at your travel photos. Beautiful. My wife's family had a reunion on Flathead Lake last July, with her 90 year old mother the guest of honor. It was held at the Lutheran Bible Camp (they rent out to heathens on weekends), and relative from, of course, MN and ND were there. So, I recognized those highway passes. Have you stopped at Drummin Up BBQ in Coeur d'Alene?

**ComfortablyNumb** · November 25, 2018, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by new2smoking View Post

Stowing inside the cookbox means you have to keep a clean cookbox, and move grates around........ðŸ˜
BTW, Comfortably Numb, I just looked at your travel photos. Beautiful. My wife's family had a reunion on Flathead Lake last July, with her 90 year old mother the guest of honor. It was held at the Lutheran Bible Camp (they rent out to heathens on weekends), and relative from, of course, MN and ND were there. So, I recognized those highway passes. Have you stopped at Drummin Up BBQ in Coeur d'Alene?

Why would you have to keep it clean? If you don't already have one of these, I suggest getting one, slide in the bottom slot and it catches anything headed for the floor. Stack the racks on their sides or put on top of the cook box before covering. I would put the firebox in first, it should fit fine without touching the sides. Then put the control box on top of it.

Thank you for the compliment, although I don't actually travel much. If someone didn't pay me to drive a truck I would stay home all the time. I haven't heard of Drummin' UP in CDA, but will look it up next time. I see a roadside board for a BBQ place in Wallace, but I haven't been through there at the right time (usually passing through in the late night/early morning hours, not to mention pulling doubles and Wallace is small!) but would like to try it out someday. If you have reason to cross the state on Highway 2 I highly suggest Tribune in Davenport. The Smoked Potato Salad is a must. Kettle Falls also has a new BBQ place, it's worth the stop if you find yourself there. Omak now has one too, but I wasn't that impressed. I'd eat there again, but if I was in Omak for only one meal the Breadline would win out.

**BBQ_Bill** · December 9, 2018, 11:23 PM

A quick post on moisture in the KBQ.
I spoke with Mr. Karau regarding adding more moisture to my smokes.
He brought up the lava rock idea that I have mentioned using in my kitchen oven.
I will be adding lava rock to the bottom cookie sheet in KBQ smokes to draw water up and evaporate it into the cooking chamber.
Will see what happens and post results.
BTW, I am using a home made flat funnel to add water to that cookie sheet during cooks/smokes.
I will try to remember to post a photo from my next smoke.
The flat funnel thingy works pretty good, but I am still wanting an automatic water add system from Santa for Christmas.

**Rfuilrez** · December 15, 2018, 08:54 PM

So I was using the GE inline on/off switch but didn’t really like it. It was nice to be able to do it, but I was just unhappy with it in general.

I had planned to wire in a switch before Bill bought the GE one, so I got that one to check it out.

Had to drill out the rivets to get inside (I know, warranty void and stuff). Drilled a 7/16â€ hole in the side, wired a switch inline with the draw fan, and Bam. Now I can shut just the draw fan off. I got lucky because I didn’t plan out where to put it. Just drilled a hole! Lol.

**BBQ_Bill** · January 24, 2019, 02:50 PM

I noticed that the point of the packers closer to the manifold in the back of the KBQ get darker and will develop bark first. Am thinking that this is partly due to the increased heat in which the Maillard Reaction works better.
In watching videos of Franklin's briskets in his large smokers, I see at times someone has placed aluminum foil on some of the corners.
In a bit of research, this was done to protect that spot from overheating and drying out.
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Next smoke, am going to try this aluminum foil thing on the point in the back after it is sufficiently barky.
The KBQ being a convection smoker, is constantly blowing hot air on the meat, and the meat next to the manifold gets the "Lion's share" of the heat.
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Will see how this works and if the foil helps prevent dehydration of certain hot spots on the meat edges.

**BBQ_Bill** · January 24, 2019, 11:55 PM

Well my fellow KBQers,
I got ALL carried away with water in a smoke this last cook just to see what it would do to the briskets in that "wet thang."
Figured it couldn't hurt, but I was mistaken.
It's cool though, as the briskets sold just fine and the customers were happy.
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The results were not so good as two dehydrated a bit on the side opposite to the fat cap side.
Who woulda thunk it with all that water in there!
The "jerky" like layer on one side was tasty, but hard to cut with the knife.
Brought back bad memories from when I was cooking with the fat cap side up.
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When I say carried away with water, I mean REALLY carried away, like to the max!
Had a water pan below each brisket plus water and Lava Rock in the bottom. LOL!
Yeah, I'm a nut, but I have fun at it!

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It was definitely not worth the hassle either as the trays do not slide out without trying to bring the pan with them.
Anyway...
I'm going back to my normal which is a cookie sheet in the very bottom and one pan above it to catch oil drippings like Bill Karau suggested.
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Just thought I would share my "fun" experiment/failure with you all

**BBQ_Bill** · March 30, 2019, 10:52 AM

Bark Failure

I wanted to share a failure to build bark on some smoked packers.
My LUV is to experiment and I'm always trying to make my packers better than the last ones...
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What happened was I was reading online where using a common table fork to make shallow furrows or cuts in the surface of the meat would INCREASE the bark on a brisket due to the surface being roughed up.

This idea made sense to me as I know that as the smoke passes over the surface of the meat, small protrusions will "catch" the passing smoke and so I tried it.

It was an EPIC FAIL!

The instruction was to follow the natural grain of the meat with the fork.
I did this and my packers looked very much like the online photo when I was finished with them.
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Here below are my opinions and observations:
1) During this failure to build bark, the meat oozed moisture for 10 hours from these gashes created by a fork.
2) The Millard Reaction is a HUGE part of the formation of bark and will STRUGGLE to occur on a...
continually oozing wet surface.
3) An ALTERNATING of moist and dry results in:
a) a trapping or attraction and adhesion of smoke when moist.
b) a browning of the surface during the dry periods.
4) When the meat surface temperature climbs the browning will occur more rapidly.

So for me, to build a great bark the condition of the surface needs a "toggling" back and forth.
I spritz to moisten to attract smoke, and then allow the surface to dry so it will brown doing this over and over.
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To cook more evenly...
I spritz with cold liquid to cool the surface.
Then I allow the surface to dry and heat back up.
Back and forth, over and over, layer upon layer works to build a high quality flavorful bark.

Unbelievable Barkless packer!

Please note that these packers have been in the smoker at 230°F for 10 hours.
There are some patches that are dry where the oozing liquids did not occur.
I suppose I did not "fork" these areas as much.
You can see a huge difference in the surface in this bottom photo.
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I therefore recommend that one NOT rough up the surface with a fork.
That is unless you do not want bark, then take a fork to them thangs!

BBQ Bill

**BBQ_Bill** · March 30, 2019, 12:23 PM

FYI, here is a photo of the color I expect from a typical 9 to 10 hour Mesquite smoked packer.

Now THAT's what I'm talking about!
BBQ Bill

**BBQ_Bill** · March 31, 2019, 05:10 PM

Timbo54
This was smoked with the bottom poppet fully open and the top poppet at about 1/4" open, BUT...
I was mistaken and feel rather foolish for my grabbing a photo of a successful packer, but it is what it is.
The one shown was a 13 hour smoke, NOT 10.
HOWEVER... if I had left the ones shown with the "fork raking" in for another 3 hours, the bark would still be NOTHING like they should have been.
THAT I am sure of.
UPDATE: I just found a comprehensive note that states I left them in for just under 12 hours and pulled them.
The note states, "Pulled at almost 12 hours to conserve moisture. So sad, no real bark on these."

**BBQ_Bill** · March 31, 2019, 09:21 PM

Thanks guys!
In regards to hotter temperatures, I originally was running much hotter, and struggled with hot spots on the meat here and there.
Generally the flat on one corner or edge would get dark really quick and start to sizzle.
I would spritz like crazy trying to stop that area from overheating.
When that area was sliced, it was dried, harder and discolored, with the meat a sort of caramel like color inside.
So I dropped the temperature a bit and would spritz those hot spot darker areas even more.
I kept doing this and finally got the sizzling to stop at lower temperatures.
Recently, I have ran higher temperatures again, and spritz and foil these hot areas.
The cooks take less time when I run hotter, but I REALLY have to hawk these things more to keep from overheating and dehydrating thinner areas.
Sizzling is simply a BAD thing in my KBQ experience.

**SmokeyNate** · February 4, 2020, 06:42 PM

Just wanted to share my first cook on my KBQ. I did a couple of racks of ribs a couple days ago and they actually turned out pretty tasty for a first cook. I used hickory and ran between 225 and 275 for about 4 hours. I probably could have left them on another 30 minutes but they still pulled off the bone with a slight tug. Some of them were a little dry for my taste but it could have just been the ribs. Had to throw a fatty on there too. The first thing I noticed is the light smoke flavor everything had. I am used to my PBC which puts a much heavier charcoal flavor on meat. I ran the top poppet closed and the bottom fully open. I might try a little top next time but wanted to get a good baseline. My wife said she liked them much better than PBC or Traeger ribs so I think it was a success!

Attached Files

**hogdog6** · February 4, 2020, 11:51 PM

Looks great. And remember "when mama's happy everybody's happy."

**Taipan** · January 17, 2023, 11:37 PM

Greetings from warm balmy Phuket.
just got my KBQ delivered and am trying to hook onto the forums where I can learn some tips and tricks. But for some reason using an IPad from Thailand does not allow the usual access to the AR webpage. I have some success in responding to posts so I’d any kind souls can guide to to the right locations you get a big thanks from me.
Gary

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