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KBQ - The "Maiden Voyage"

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    #31
    overeasy
    Way back when... I was having trouble with my lid sticking as it expanded from the intense heat.
    This was on my 1st KBQ.
    (On my second KBQ not so much, as Bill Karau increased the clearances on the newer lids)
    Even though it was frustrating when it came time to add wood, I kept on using the tight lid during my very 1st smoke (The Maiden Voyage) of 2 briskets.
    I just pried it off, added wood and as it sat on the concrete below it cooled, shrunk, and then went back on somewhat easily.
    -
    I don't recall exactly when I gave up on the lid completely and stopped using it entirely.
    But as time went on and I smoked more briskets, I remember that I had become VERY weary with this sticky lid.
    In frustration, I made the decision to simply quit using it, figuring it was not needed.
    My thinking was that the lid was just a useless hunk of stainless steel and definitely a "royal pain" to remove after it got hot.
    -
    What happened after this was I began noticing that my brisket bark was nowhere near as dark after the same amount of time in the smoker.
    I found this odd...
    You see, I REALLY like Central Texas Style Black Thick Bark.
    I was confused as to why this lack of color was happening and so I started leaving the briskets in longer and longer before I wrapped trying to get more color.
    They were in the smoke for up to 12 hours as I was trying to get dark thick bark. I wanted them to look like a meteorite, I mean REALLY black!
    -
    We all LOVED those 1st "lucky" briskets but the thick luscious Central Texas Style heavy peppered bark was basically just not the same as it was on the "Maiden Voyage" ones.
    WHY I asked, are these current briskets I am smoking NOT as dark and as "barky" as the very first two were?
    I was truly mystified, really I was.
    My BBQ helper Mike and Linda my wife who also helps out adding wood were baffled as well.
    In thinking about it, the thought came to me that "It's just Beginners Luck" Bill, you just lucked out on those 1st ones.
    -
    Here I was an accomplished BBQ dude, a self proclaimed "master" of cheap off-set smokers producing quality smoked meats for friends and family for years.
    Why couldn't I solve this mystery, this lack of dark color in the time it took to get it on the first KBQ smoke?
    So I tried to analyze and think the problem through asking myself...
    "What happened then, that is different now?"
    I had excellent records thanks to Mike, so I scoured them for clues.
    Same temperature.
    Same wood.
    Same spices.
    Same spritz.
    Same timing on all temperature probe checks, water adds, and spritzing so what was the blasted difference!?!
    Nothing... nothing in the notes helped.
    -
    As time went on, I was sitting out on my favorite bench watching my KBQ and started videoing the action of the smoke as the unit ran.
    I watched and saw the smoke pouring out of the top as the draw fan stopped.
    Suddenly, the "light bulb" came on. It was my "Eureka" moment!
    The only real difference was that I had used the lid the 1st time, and then I had simply quit using it in frustration!
    -
    Bill Karau made the lid for a reason, right? I said to myself.
    From that day on, I started using the lid on every smoke and BAM!
    My dark bark came back sooner and I began wrapping earlier again.
    -
    Some other thoughts regarding the lid are:
    1) It helps to keep flying sparks and tall flames in check.
    2) It also helps in the conservation of wood.
    -
    Please note that there are fine smoking guys and gals here that do not use the KBQ's lid at all.
    They also produce excellent product with their KBQ's.
    -
    I am only trying to help with this odd problem here and can only speak from my own personal experience.
    Sharing this "lid thing" is an attempt to help as my thoughts are that darker bark, that forms on the meat quicker, must be from added smoke.
    And with more smoke on the meat, more smoke flavor.
    -
    So with that I say...
    Smoke On!
    Last edited by BBQ_Bill; November 13, 2017, 10:54 PM.

    Comment


      #32
      Well Bill,
      Cooked a brisket today, with the lid on, thanks to you, and to my surprise it was done, in 5.5 hrs. Yeah< I know< hard to believe! It was a small brisket albeit a whole one, costco prime salt and pepper only, and as luck would have it, my neighbor at work brought some sausage over from Eckermann's to ad to the cook at about 4 1/2 hrs. Anyway, later, maybe 40 min. I wanted to check the progress on the sausage and to my surprise it was already done! actually overdone, 190, so I checked the brisket and it was done too! The bark was not what i want a bit soft and not thick enough. But there was a big difference in the flavor! Much better smoke! So, Im thinking I need to check my cook chamber temps with a different system to double check everything. Defiantly a step in the right direction. Maybe lower temps to lengthen my cook and increase the bark and smoke? How about the water? I have a full steam pan with water in it doing its thing in there. Thats got to be speeding up my cooks. When I open the door and look at the waterpan its got a low simmer going on so i know its spending up the cook. Then there are those of the opinion that you don't need a water pan? So many variables wow! What do you think about water pans in the KBQ? The BBQ turned out pretty good today. Got a couple packs of back ribs at Costco for the next cook...
      Thanks for your help,
      Dave
      Last edited by overeasy; November 14, 2017, 10:59 PM.

      Comment


      • EdF
        EdF commented
        Editing a comment
        So far, I haven't found a need to use a water pan. But I know some more experienced fellows do. What are you using to measure your chamber temps?

        The KBQ is definitely faster than my other cooker (BGE) due to convection. But not that fast!

      • BBQ_Bill
        BBQ_Bill commented
        Editing a comment
        You are most welcome Dave.
        Agreed, hot and fast means less smoke, less bark.
        If you slow it down, spritz to keep the meat moist.
        Also, put it in COLD.
        I use a water pan, and spritz to cool the surface which slows down the cooking, plus the moisture attracts more smoke, making better/thicker bark.
        I cook at 230°F average in the KBQ's "Port" for a thermometer.
        This is my method for success.
        Last edited by BBQ_Bill; November 15, 2017, 09:10 PM. Reason: Additions needed

      #33
      overeasy
      Here is a photo I took of one of the 1st two briskets smoked on my "Maiden Voyage" that came from my 1st "Virgin" KBQ.

      Click image for larger version

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      Both were full packers, trimmed to a 1/4" to about a 3/8" layer of fat.
      They were and have been pretty good sized cryovac Swift brand packers at around 12 to 18 pounds.
      (I like 'em BIG!)
      Biggest one yet was right at 24 pounds I think... a MONSTER!
      -
      Larry, my old butcher would open the cases, and go through them, choosing the big ones with the thickest flats for me.
      I was buying 3 to 6 at a time way back then.
      Anyway...
      Temperature on this 1st cook was 225°F average I do believe.
      I'm almost positive that I used a water pan and for sure did lots of spritzing during that 1st smoke.
      -
      At about 9 hours, I spritzed again, and wrapped each one in spritzed 40# doubled up pink butcher paper.
      Both then went into a moist oven and continued at 250°F average (not a convection oven) until they reached about 203°F in the middle of the flats.
      At that time, they were pulled and rested on the stove top until 140°F internally and then they were sliced and devoured.
      -
      After many trials, experiments and mess-ups, I am pretty satisfied with my current procedure for brisket Dave.
      Am going with a totally different beef source, a rancher.
      Still going with clean smoke for 9 hours before wrapping.
      They then continue cooking until they are close to being done.
      However, I now go by feel, as well as by probe feel, plus I check them for being "floppy" while looking for "ALMOST" done in the center of the thickest part of the flats.
      They then each get their own temperature probe inserted into the thickest part of the flat.
      Next, they rest still wrapped at a controlled temperature of 110°F and at 90% relative humidity until the thickest part of the flat where the probe drops to 145°F to 150°F or so.
      I then open and add liquid inside the butcher paper and re-wrap.
      They are then moved into holding at 150°F and at 75% relative humidity for around 10 to 15 hours. (Depending on my schedule)
      Resting and Holding are NOT the same thing.
      -
      I've been told by more than one customer that I need to enter BBQ contests with my brisket, but am simply too busy working full time plus keeping weekend customers happy.
      Am basically not interested in the competition scene at this time.
      -
      Smoke On!
      Last edited by BBQ_Bill; November 21, 2017, 11:50 AM. Reason: Trouble getting photo to "stick"

      Comment


      • lostclusters
        lostclusters commented
        Editing a comment
        Good info, thanks Bill!

      • BBQ_Bill
        BBQ_Bill commented
        Editing a comment
        Just hoping to help as best I can is all.
        Not saying my way is best at all, just sharing the most recent procedure that works and produces a consistently high quality product according to the "eaters".
        I used my oven to hold in before I purchased the two Metros.

      #34
      If you click on this link HERE gents, at Post # 1252, you can see my setup in my kitchen oven which I used for quite awhile as a "Faux Holding Cabinet" for my briskets.
      Last edited by BBQ_Bill; March 1, 2018, 09:21 PM. Reason: Discovered how to link to a specific post, so I edited the link to go there. ;)

      Comment


        #35
        Thanks for all the input Bill. Can I ask how your setting up your water and drip pans. Obviously the water is on the bottom, but are you leaving a slot open above the water?
        And what are you using for the drip pan? Another hotel pan? Seems like I'm losing a lot of real estate with all these pans in there. Also the bottom two slots are blocked
        by the door hinge can't get a pan into them. Maybe a door kit of some sort would help with that. Got any ideas on that?
        Were gone next week from our business so won't be there to receive packages but will be ordering your door kit when we return.
        Thanks,
        Dave

        Comment


          #36
          overeasy
          You are welcome, happy to help a fellow smoking dude.
          -
          Please go HERE for the KBQ setup I use regarding pans.
          Refer to the comments added to Post # 3 and read Post # 4 there.
          Last edited by BBQ_Bill; March 1, 2018, 09:24 PM. Reason: "Accurized" the Link

          Comment


            #37
            I was asked some questions that I would like to attempt to answer here in this thread in hopes that others will add their experiences (both Positive and Negative) as well.
            Some of what was asked is a bit of a "Gray Area" for me, but I hope we can all learn from the posts to follow.
            So... please do feel free to add your thoughts regarding this as we all can benefit from each others mistakes, successes and sweet discoveries.
            So here's a
            BIG Thank You to all who post follow-ups!
            -
            Questions asked me: (Regarding the KBQ)
            1) What effect do the bottom water pans (cookie sheet and 2-1/2" steam pan) have on how the inside of the cook box and fan unit foul up, due to the increase in moisture circulating inside the cook box? (I think probably more build-up)
            2) Is the build-up less than or more than when using no pans? (I think probably more with pans)
            3) Is it easier or harder to clean off? (It depends... see my ramblings below )

            The control unit is a real PITA to clean up as it is with no added moisture and I am wondering what effect the moisture will have.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Okay...
            After Mr. Bill Karau advised me to try the double pan method to help prevent drying brisket bottoms, I have used water pans in every smoke in both machines ever since.
            I know another KBQ owner posted that he believed that increased moisture in the cook box fouled his fans with a heavy dark coating.
            Now... I DO know from my experience after reading and following Professor Greg Blonder's advice, that moisture attracts smoke.
            This means that the more moisture the two fans move, the more smoke adheres to the blades and surrounding fan box.
            HOWEVER, I honestly believe that there is also more water vapor mixed in with the smoke causing better adhesion of the smoke to the meat, which is what I want.
            -
            Now, in looking at hardness of deposit as well as color, my fan blades and surrounding area get coated with a tan/gray somewhat easier to remove deposit if I focus on the following:
            1) Keep a good layer (about 1 to 2 inches) of gray coals covering the holes in the coal tray.
            2) Use the bottom poppet at full open only.
            3) Guard the top poppet from being "bumped" open during wood adds.
            -
            IF, I decide to open the top poppet a touch to get a bit of "dirtier" smoke too, and/or don't keep a good layer of gray coals covering the holes in the coal tray allowing "dirtier" smoke to be sucked in through the holes, my fans get black, REALLY black and hard coated.
            -
            In looking at Aaron Franklin's brisket, he gets a combination of very clean smoke and some dirtier smoke too or he would not get thick black bark in 9 hours (which is how long he smokes before wrapping).
            Attached here below is a composite photo of the bark on two of my briskets.
            One was smoked with focus on the three points above.
            The other was smoked with the bottom poppet full open and the top poppet open to about 1/8" and not much concern for keeping the holes in the coal tray covered.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	Bark Comparison.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	372.6 KB ID:	458287
            I do not recall but would bet that my fan blades would be black after the smoke that produced the bark as seen on the right.
            -
            Now, is it hard to clean the fan blades and surrounding area?
            I don't know because I don't worry about them anymore after Mr. Bill Karau said they don't have to be cleaned super well.
            He explained that they are designed to run well even though somewhat dirty, and that suits me just fine.
            To clean my fan blades and surrounding area I use an old toothbrush and compressed air at 120 PSI.
            What comes off is fine and what does not come off stays on there, smoke after smoke.
            -
            Yes, I could disassemble by removing the blades and clean all really well, but I see no need to do that, so I don't.
            After each and every smoke...
            the thermostat bulb and spring get the same treatment, the old toothbrush rub and high pressure compressed air.
            (Because this IS important to keep somewhat clean, and not covered to where you cannot see the bulb anymore)
            -
            As far as the inside of the cook box, I power wash after each smoke and occasionally spray it while still hot with canned Easy Off Oven Cleaner. (Thanks to another KBQ poster here)
            I then later go out and power wash it out real well and all is good at BBQ Bill's again.
            -
            The racks are an entirely different matter in my book as they touch the food.
            After every smoke they get soaked in a soapy hot tub of water along with the doors and rack holders.
            After the long hot soak they get Scotch Brite pad rubbed with liquid Dawn and an Ajax Scouring powder scrub to a shiney clean.
            Then a thorough hot high-pressure water rinse.
            -
            I hope some of this rambling helps!
            Smoke On!
            Last edited by BBQ_Bill; February 22, 2018, 09:02 AM. Reason: Correction to clarify.

            Comment


              #38
              When I use my KBQ I open the top poppet an 1/8" when the wood on the top of the firebox has started to coal. This method does definitely add extra smokiness to the taste profile. It adds all the smoke profile I need. As far as increasing the moisture level in the cookbox goes, I believe that moisture helps smoke stick because of the tests done here. It would follow that smoke will stick to everything the moisture comes in contact with including the fans and inside the controlbox. I have not cleaned my fans yet, but I'd say that a cleaning is due though. I have cleaned the inside of the cookbox by taking out the racks, rack holders, and taking off the door and scrubbing all and the inside with a stainless steel scrubber and vinegar. This is very effective. I'll most likely use vinegar to clean the fans too, being careful not to allow the vinegar to go down the motor shaft into the motor. I have only cleaned the cookbox once that way, mosty I just spray it out with a garden hose and sprayer.

              I use cabbage to increase the moisture level in my cookbox. I put quartered cabbage, with olive oil, salt and pepper, on the bottom rack. Cabbage is tasty when cooked this way. This will definitely increase the moisture level. I tried this on a 22.5" WSM that had just finished smoking salmon. It almost extinguished the coals. I had to open all the vents all the way to keep things cooking. And there was a lot of moisture around the vents on the exterior of the WSM.
              Last edited by lostclusters; February 22, 2018, 07:07 PM.

              Comment


                #39
                As memory serves me, I copied and pasted Bill Karau's instructions regarding cleaning the Control Box and Fans in a post found HERE.
                For those of you that do not own a KBQ, Mr. Karau is the Genius that designed, built and sells them.
                He is a great guy, with EXCELLENT customer service, and is just a call away when you need help with your KBQ Smoker!
                Last edited by BBQ_Bill; February 28, 2018, 08:57 PM. Reason: Added an explanation as to who Bill Karau is.

                Comment


                  #40
                  Fired up the KBQ yesterday and did 4 racks of baby back. I have some pictures of the cook, but none of the finished ribs...they went that quickly!

                  Now I'm going back over all the posts I read before...everything makes a lot more sense now...

                  My wife (the foodie who studied the restaurant industry until she got tired of being yelled at in kitchens) felt that the ribs were a bit dry and overcooked, but absolutely loved the flavor! We gave all the ribs away, so she's on my a$$ to make more, immediately! Fortunately I have two racks set aside for the sous vide experiment. I'll get that going in the morning...

                  I think I need to grab a water pan for the bottom of the cooker...

                  Comment


                  #41
                  Oh, man.

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                  Last edited by Livermoron; April 19, 2018, 02:46 PM.

                  Comment


                  • hogdog6
                    hogdog6 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Great lookin ribs, I’ve been going between ribs or brisket for a cook this weekend, finally decided on brisket then I pull up your pics and now I’m back to undecided. It may now need to be both.
                    Last edited by hogdog6; April 19, 2018, 10:33 PM.

                  • BBQ_Bill
                    BBQ_Bill commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Oh man is RIGHT!
                    Those look sticky and sweet!
                    I GOTTA try KBQing some pork ribs!

                  • Livermoron
                    Livermoron commented
                    Editing a comment
                    They were awesome, and gone in a flash.

                    I never thought I'd be able to do something like this. Now I feel like I can do it on demand...

                  #42
                  I have been researching pork ribs for a few weeks now Livermoron, wanting to KBQ some, but not wanting to fail with my "Maiden Voyage" smoking them.
                  Basically, "Failure" is NOT an option for me in this venture.
                  -
                  Done Beef Brisket, Beef ribs, Salmon, and Chicken, but never any pork...
                  My buddy James out at JL's Smokehouse here in Phoenix does some pretty tasty pork ribs, and I purchase them from him fairly often.
                  Am wanting mine to be better than his, "right out of the gate" so I am procrastinating.
                  And... reading and stalling, and looking at the 3,2,1 method at this time.
                  -
                  Would you be so kind as to share what you did to produce your awesome ribs?
                  These are your very 1st KBQ smoke of pork ribs right?

                  Comment


                  • Livermoron
                    Livermoron commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The ones in the pictures were done sous vide. Baby backs, sprinkled with salt and dry brined overnight. Rubbed with Memphis Dust and cooked sous vide at 165 for 12 hours. Dried, another light rub and cooked in the KBQ at 230 for 45 minutes, with sauce applied every 7 minutes for the last 14.

                  • Livermoron
                    Livermoron commented
                    Editing a comment
                    The first batch was done at 230 for about 3 hours, with an apple cider spritz every time I put in wood. They came out a bit drier, but a bit more smokey than the sous vide ribs. I don't have any pictures of the finished product, because everybody took them before I could get to my phone!

                  • BBQ_Bill
                    BBQ_Bill commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you kindly sir.

                  #43
                  Livermoron - beautiful!

                  BBQ_Bill - ribs are easy. Here are some that are just plain with a bit of a decent rub. Nothing to fret over. Just figure an hour less than on more traditional cookers.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  Comment


                  • BBQ_Bill
                    BBQ_Bill commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yeah, I see most all say pork ribs are a pretty quick cook.
                    Of course, with our convection smokers, things do cook faster yet.
                    Thanks EdF

                  • EdF
                    EdF commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Quick, easy and satisfying, BBQBILL !

                  #44
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                  BBQBILL with your skill you got this. Very forgiving. Like EdF said in the KBQ they do go fast.
                  Last edited by hogdog6; April 20, 2018, 06:38 PM.

                  Comment


                  • BBQ_Bill
                    BBQ_Bill commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Faster, understood, and thanks hogdog6

                  #45
                  I am not a newbie to the KBQ, but AM a newbie in the use of my weed-burner, charcoal/wood lighter, meat-searing-torch.
                  -
                  Yes my friends, I've made a bad mistake and wanted to share my error in hopes to help others.
                  Basically I "blew" one of my KBQ doors open, and damaged it a bit.
                  Yeah, my KBQ smoker exploded... sort of.
                  -
                  Damage:
                  The "cool" handles (bent the bolts) and sprung the door latch.
                  -
                  The sound was a rather loud "HUFF" and the KBQ door suddenly slammed into the concrete.
                  I am SO glad nobody was in front of the door when this happened.
                  -
                  So...
                  When lighting the wood, or lump charcoal in the firebox please...
                  DISCONNECT THE POWER TO YOUR KBQ!
                  -
                  Here is what happened...
                  The large propane weed burner torch was burning well at first.
                  Then, I positioned it above the firebox opening and pointed the flame downwards onto the wood inside.
                  The flame went out for some reason, and the KBQ draw fan quickly sucked in some propane and oxygen.
                  I re-lit the torch, and while this VERY dangerous mixture of fuel and oxygen was being circulated inside the cook chamber, I re-lit the torch and... well, you get the picture.
                  -
                  The sprung latch was repaired and the bent handles repaired.
                  I thank God that there were no injuries except to my pride.
                  -
                  Therefore, now that I have been educated by my ignorance and stupidity, I humbly pass this "near-miss" experience on to my fellow KBQ buddies.

                  Comment


                  • BBQ_Bill
                    BBQ_Bill commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yeah, I have lit it from the sides before with no problems. I was drawing air though the wood with the fan to make it start faster each time, but not a good idea.

                  • EdF
                    EdF commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Glad no one got hurt. Gotta be careful around those industrial-strength methods!

                  • hogdog6
                    hogdog6 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Whew! Dodged a bullet there. Good all is well!

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