Why bother with special online butchers?

[rickgregory]

Thanks all. For the brisket etc - when you say something is better than the Costco stuff... can you describe how? is it better tasting? If so... how? More evenly marbled?
To Red Man 's point, I see the Haggen (local chain) near me has a choice brisket for $7.

The reason I'm asking all this is that at $9/lb, I might as well get Creekstone or similar. But it's hard to justify a 2-3x price difference to myself if the taste/quality gap is minimal vs a prime brisket from Costco.

Also, I'm wondering about the trimming vs Costco. the Costco stuff I've seen seems to have a lot of fat and obviously if you trim 4lbs off a 15lb brisket that affects the value.Here's the thing - I can get untrimmed choice from a butcher near me for $5/lb. I can get trimmed ones for $9. To

[ecowper]

At $3.79/lb, you have to trim a lot of brisket before it costs $9/lb for what you are cooking. And it's still prime, not choice.

[Jfrosty27]

Don’t forget about the shipping costs for online purchases. Makes a big difference in the total cost.

[rickgregory]

And then there are things like this https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-disappoinment and the various stories about meat arriving too warm etc (though I think it's silly to order meat in the summer... ).

[Rob Johnston]

This has been a good thread. I have never ordered online, but think about it from time to time just to compare what others are talking about.

[ecowper]

I have 3 sources for meat (with the occasional stop at Safeway very quickly because it is easy, which I won't count).

1. Costco - 80% of our meat is bought at Costco. I don't even bother with Prime at Costco, I buy all Choice on the beef. Chicken, pork, and lamb is also all high quality. Primal cuts are great. Prime brisket is the sole exception, because who can pass it up at under $4/lb.

2. Local butcher shop (Shawn's) - 15% of our meat is bought there. They source from Painted Hills .... grass fed, grain finished CAB. We tend to buy here for special occasions or when we are having a hard time finding something at Costco. Last year, for example, I couldn't get brisket at my local Costco in December, so I bought it at Shawn's.

3. Online retailer (Creekstone or SRF) - 5% is bought here and it is almost always on sale. For example, I bought a brisket from Creekstone for $99 that was about 18 lbs .... that was the sale price. And comes out to just over $5/lb. Not much more expensive than Costco. Everybody thought it was superb. I buy special stuff from the online guys and only a couple times a year.

[JoeSousa]

I did a side by side comparison with a prime Snake River Farms brisket and a prime Costco brisket a year ago: https://completecarnivore.com/snake-...ostco-brisket/

My general conclusion was there was a slight difference in the briskets but there are too many variables (cooking time, size of the briskets, etc.) to make a definitive conclusion that one was better than the other. There were differences but it is hard to know what to attribute that to.

When I lived in Florida for the first couple years I was there my Costco didn't carry briskets. The local butcher who had them sold them for $7-8 per pound and those were choice briskets, not prime. In this case I think it would be worth ordering online and spending a couple bucks more per pound. But if you are somewhere where you can get them at Costco for $3.49 per pound there is no real reason to order online unless you want to go with an American Wagyu or something like that.

You also mentioned trimming above. I found the SRF brisket seemed to be butchered with a bit more care so there was a bit less trimming to do but once you are trimming a few more knife strokes doesn't really matter all that much.

[Panhead John]

Great article and response Joe! Interesting and very helpful answers for Rick’s original question.

[Huskee]

Agree on all counts.

[rickgregory]

AHAHA.. After I posted that I found your article and almost mentioned it here, not knowing it was you. I thought that was a good overview of the two.. thanks.

[Huskee]

Briskets & tri tips:

In my limited experience buying Black Wagyu and Prime briskets & tri tips from a popular online meat supplier I was always disappointed. IMO they were way too overpriced and little to no discernible improvement to me. They weren't bad, they were great, just not worth it to me. I will never do it again unless I have no choice. Sam's/Costco briskets are plenty good enough for me and cheaper than hamburger. For many years they weren't available in my local stores so online was my only option, but the last 2 or 3 they have been so I count my blessings.

Steaks:

Steaks are a different story. I have been very impressed with the online specialty store steaks I've bought. Pricey, yes, nearly the price of a cooked steak at a steakhouse, but darn fine meat if I'm in a position to splurge.

[JoeSousa]

I feel the same way about tri tips. I have had maybe 4 of 5 American Wagyu tri tips from SRF and haven't really cared for them. The choice or prime tri tips from Costco are better in my opinion.

That said the tri tips from Porter Road are better than Costco. Much better flavor. $31 a piece is a bit spendy though and about twice the price of the Costco ones.

[LA Pork Butt]

I have had varying results buying choice brisket, but at the $1.67 a pound I paid for the last one I’ll take the chance.

[TripleB]

I never order online and probably never will. But maybe for pork someday. The main reason is two fold:

1) I have a great local store that sells choice, prime and SR waygu and I'm in Tri-tip country (So. Cal). If I really want that prime brisket, I can drive 10 miles to Costco. I got a Restaurant Depot 5 miles away. Why go online?

2) and most importantly, I need to see what I'm buying. I need to see the cut angle, fat layer, the weight and marbling. I've seen prime that is as marbled as choice and I've seen choice as marbled as prime. I just can't fathom (for the price) buying meat unseen.

However, I do buy my crawfish online. Great thread. Thanks for posting.

[SheilaAnn]

TripleB what local store? I’m looking for a good source. Also, if you happen to have the opportunity to hit SMFM, Peads and Barnett Pork is exceptional!

[TripleB]

SheilaAnn - I just mean my local grocery store which is a Ralph's (Kroger). Believe it or not, they are the #1 Ralphs store. Don't know what SMFM is?

[SheilaAnn]

TripleB Santa Monica farmers market

[SheilaAnn]

For me, it’s all about where the meat comes from, sustainability, blah blah blah. It is the philosophy I adopted long before my old job. HouseHomey knows what I am talking about. That said, I have tried a few online retailers and it has been hit or miss both in service and quality. I swear, I have had some of the best product when I was at the old job. I have not found it’s equal (name the movie)....yet. I have been to several farms, some bad enough that I would go veg in a hot minute if that was my only choice. Even though I’m allergic to vegan! I would take my chances.

not that I am answering your question exactly, but I think it all has to do with our budget, availability and philosophy. That said, I will eat Portillo’s or in-and-out in a heartbeat. Does that make me a hypocrite? No, I’m just honest and the heart wants what the heart wants.

I do not buy proteins from Costco and the like anymore. I either do online or Whole Foods Gap 4 or better.

[rickgregory]

yeah, I can see this reasoning. It's actually something I'm thinking about too.

[Red Man]

I think different Costco locations have different meat suppliers and the quality may vary a bit. I don’t really know how to best describe the taste difference. Think about the taste difference in a steak from a top quality beef producer vs commodity beef. To me, that’s the same difference in taste between an SRF, or even a Double R, brisket and a Costco prime. Costco prime beef is certainly not bad. It’s a great price for brisket and the beef is just fine.

[HouseHomey]

SheilaAnn I am generally with you.

First take brisket out of the equation.

That changes the conversation a lot.

Now.. let’s eliminate "mechanically tenderized" meat....game changer. Costco has now been voted off the Isand.

Then let’s talk about heirloom birds, organic birds etc... Costco who???

Now.. let’s talk about the treat meant of animals and the commitment to the farmland and practices as well as animal care.... Costco???

so for me tri tip??? Meh??? Been it that crap for decades. Hell...
I just grind it now. Of course as you all know... I’ll grind anything.

so excluding tri tips and briskets this thread leaves us with steaks and short plate.

funny what no one has mentioned is chuck, flap, outside skirt sirloin. Good lord that is some
money and great eats. Also some
of the best burger grind you’ll EVER taste.

So yes, philosophy has a lot to do with this conversation as well as the elimination of brisket and try tip.

I have cooked more SRF product than you can shake a stick at. And SRF product is fabulous 100% of the time. Fabulous in texture, taste and richness. Without a doubt. I know sheila
may disagree with me here but there is no question in my mind that they are a superior product in comparison to the ordinarily stuff ordered by restaurants.


Do not get me wrong I have purchased plenty of Costco prime product and have been very very satisfied with it. But it is simply not the same and texture, richness and marbling.

I do not want to buy mechanically tenderized meat but you will not catch me spitting out a piece of Costco prime beef.

for general reference I think Mosca has a great mindset and applicable experience.

The steaks that I received is Creekstone sucked (twice) but the st Louie ribs and short ribs were amazing. I’m waiting on SRF plate ribs now so I can compare them to Creekstone.


also I have a problem when people are comparing Costco‘s price for brisket. That’s the only place you’re going to get that for brisket.

Sams club sucks for pork ribs, chuck roast and other prime meats. Costco has more of a selection of prime meats.

I just don’t understand it when people are comparing Costco prices and local butchers. Perhaps it’s my location. I am within a two or 3 mile proximity to every store imaginable to mankind. My local butchers are the most expensive place to buy anything. Period. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are not a value to me but they are simply pricewise more expensive than any of the other dozen places I had to buy meat from. I know this sounds like I am blessed perhaps this is why I can’t understand how Y’all make a comparison to Costco and local butchers. To me they’re just not in the same planet. But like others have said I guess it depends on the proximity of the outlet you have to purchase from. I have a Costco membership and a Sam’s membership. I cannot tell you last time I bought meat at Costco. In fact I don’t think I’m going to renew my Costco.

So I know this takes away from the "quality of meat" conversation but it also has to do with price as mentioned so it needs to be a consideration. But nowhere in the conversation above did anyone mention the treatment of animals and the quality of the food chain with the exception of Sheila. And some of us that is important

[SheilaAnn]

I used to get sirloin cap at the Costco HB. It was my fav at the time. Then my thoughts and tastes changed.

[glitchy]

I agree on the SRF quality. I've never had a single piece of meat that was not great if not fabulous and I pretty much only buy the sale products and bulk packs. This is both Prime and Wagyu. I don't know if it's good enough to keep me coming back regularly, but SRF would definitely be the choice when I want something special. Haven't had as good as luck with Creekstone, but been pretty happy with Porter Road minus one Picanha.

[HouseHomey]

This is a far bigger conversation than the cost of brisket at Costco. I apologize for the ramblings but one thing led to another and there are so many different places to go.

[Timbo54]

This has been a great thread. I have come close to pulling the trigger on an expensive mail-order piece of protein. We have a couple of butchers nearby that I've purchased from and not noticed any positive difference. Costco is nearby and have always been happy with their meat. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

[rickgregory]

SheilaAnn I am generally with you.

First take brisket out of the equation.

Well, but that's what I was comparing because the cost difference between a Costco prime and SRF prime is about $100. That's not trivial to a middle class income guy.

That changes the conversation a lot.

Yes, if you move the goalposts... it changes the field.

Now.. let’s eliminate "mechanically tenderized" meat....game changer. Costco has now been voted off the Isand.

Then let’s talk about heirloom birds, organic birds etc... Costco who???

I agree. My first post should probably have been clearer that I was mostly thinking of brisket because of the overall price impact. The equation changes on things like this.

Now.. let’s talk about the treat meant of animals and the commitment to the farmland and practices as well as animal care.... Costco???

They seem to be good at this *for their size*. Of course they can't match small family farms here.

so for me tri tip??? Meh??? Been it that crap for decades. Hell...
I just grind it now. Of course as you all know... I’ll grind anything.

Utterly disagree. From anyone else, I'd say you need to learn to cook it. But... fine, we'll just disagree on this one.

so excluding tri tips and briskets this thread leaves us with steaks and short plate.

funny what no one has mentioned is chuck, flap, outside skirt sirloin. Good lord that is some
money and great eats. Also some
of the best burger grind you’ll EVER taste.

Agreed. Again, though, the price impact between a good prime steak and a decent choice one isn't that much, same for chuck etc. In fact... well... see below

So yes, philosophy has a lot to do with this conversation as well as the elimination of brisket and try tip.

I have cooked more SRF product than you can shake a stick at. And SRF product is fabulous 100% of the time. Fabulous in texture, taste and richness. Without a doubt. I know sheila
may disagree with me here but there is no question in my mind that they are a superior product in comparison to the ordinarily stuff ordered by restaurants.

Can't comment on the restaurant stuff (I see a lot of IBF choice stuff at the local supply place but...). But the SRF stuff I've bought is very very good.

Do not get me wrong I have purchased plenty of Costco prime product and have been very very satisfied with it. But it is simply not the same and texture, richness and marbling.

Consistently or is it that there's more variation in the Costco prime briskets?

I do not want to buy mechanically tenderized meat but you will not catch me spitting out a piece of Costco prime beef.

I refuse to buy their tenderized stuff.

also I have a problem when people are comparing Costco‘s price for brisket. That’s the only place you’re going to get that for brisket.

Again, moving the goalposts here. You're taking one of the main advantages for Costco off the table (so to speak). I don't care if it's the only place I'd get that price. It's as valid a source of meat as any other as long as you're willing to consider the source of the meat as OK.

I just don’t understand it when people are comparing Costco prices and local butchers. Perhaps it’s my location. I am within a two or 3 mile proximity to every store imaginable to mankind. My local butchers are the most expensive place to buy anything. Period. That doesn’t necessarily mean they are not a value to me but they are simply pricewise more expensive than any of the other dozen places I had to buy meat from. I know this sounds like I am blessed perhaps this is why I can’t understand how Y’all make a comparison to Costco and local butchers. To me they’re just not in the same planet. But like others have said I guess it depends on the proximity of the outlet you have to purchase from. I have a Costco membership and a Sam’s membership. I cannot tell you last time I bought meat at Costco. In fact I don’t think I’m going to renew my Costco.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. The reason for the comparison is obvious - price. For standard cuts, there really are only 3 things to consider that I can see - quality, price and how something is raised.

Don't get me wrong, I have a few actual butchers near me and their prices are decent. One will cut smaller cuts from subprimals to order. But for briskets, they're in the $10-12/lb range and at the weight of a full packer, that's over a $100 difference.

For high choice steak from a butcher, the difference is much less - maybe $10-12/lb and since I rarely eat steak, I'm fine with grabbing the stuff from the butcher. I also don't see a reason to buy steak in quantity since don't eat it that much so the attraction of buying a lot (at Costco and the like) isn't there for me.

So I know this takes away from the "quality of meat" conversation but it also has to do with price as mentioned so it needs to be a consideration. But nowhere in the conversation above did anyone mention the treatment of animals and the quality of the food chain with the exception of Sheila. And some of us that is important

As I replied to her, I think this is very valid reasoning and an excellent point to bring up.

[ecowper]

Just to add to this .... Costco does a good job of ensuring that their sources are sustainable and humane. For their size. It's not the same as a family farm with a few hundred head of cattle and simply cannot be. But it is the best of the big boxes. One of the key things that their meat buyers do is continuously inspect and evaluate their suppliers for compliance with Costco's supplier standards. Their competitors are not so good at this, for many reasons.