So this is the lamest post in the history of AR, but, let me tell you, I absolutely suck at writing recipes, even the idea of writing a recipe causes me major anxiety. But, I am getting pretty comfortable handling dough, and on my techniques or recipes, I am completely willing to answer any question I am qualified to answer, also willing to take feedback, and whatever else this can lead too. I have been asked by a few members 58limited to share my methods and recipe’s. So I guess this is how I can learn what is important in writing a recipe. This thread will be a living document of changes I continue to make. It is also by no means the way to make sourdough, it is just my journey with it. We all have different approaches, so please also respect this is my approach, I’m not looking to disagree on methods and approaches. So, If your looking to debate something, start your own debate thread.
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Last edited by Richard Chrz; February 6, 2022, 09:55 PM. -
I recommend doing a step by step write up in outline form, with pictures of your basic method then add updates as you evolve. Start from the beginning and walk us through how you make a loaf.
Sorry about the anxiety, don't worry: we're an easy crowd, but I can help you if you wish.Last edited by 58limited; February 6, 2022, 09:58 PM. -
I am looking forward to learning from the one of the greats!Comment
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Agreed. He makes some of the prettiest loaves I've ever seen. -
I am certainly not one of the greats, I am just putting my type A - ocd on public display. Lol 😂
With that being said, what I have learned from here, and have practiced with my dough and cooking, every step matters, and you just have to keep learning the steps, and it will all come together, and like you already practice, good food is not on accident, everything is done purposeful.
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This will be a topic I will be following every post on.
Thank You so much for this @Richard ChrzComment
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+1 I don’t think you'll’ see anything but appreciation for your efforts. For me at any rate I need to see the journey that got you there. That way when I see something I don’t understand I’ll remember what you said about it. This doesn’t need to be some recipe on a form letter, just talk to us, we’re people like you, your friends. Thank you!
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Have you thought of incorporating a fam member or friend to take dictation. Since you suck at it , I can totally relate, mebbee a little help from a friend will do. Just a suggestion.Comment
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rickgregory you know I think one of my problems with putting it to paper, is that it took me a couple years and some failure and quitting making bread, to end up here, and so many tiny little thoughts I have tested along the way, I don’t know how to capture that in a recipe. So, I like this method of a living document, as I have tons of things I want to test, and am willing to share those thoughts. But, the video to go through maybe a few steps. Could be a fun cocktail hour! -
Richard Chrz - Yeah, I'm behind you in the learning curve (i see you... WAY ahead) but there's a lot of little things.
I have a paid Zoom account and would be happy to host it or AR folks could, whatever. I can host up to 100 folks. Let me know if you want to explore it - we can do a practice thing to make sure it all works, etc.
Also, I saw your writeup forther down which is great since I'm doing pizza this week
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I would love to hear more about your method and recipe. I’ve never made sourdough, but seeing your pics has made me really want to get into it!Comment
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I'm looking forward to your writings, your pics of bread over my time on this site are awe inspiring.
Especially your pizza dough, we buy frozen dough balls from grocery store for our za's, its beginning to taste like cardboard.Comment
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This will indeed be a regular read. Thank you Richard.Comment
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I, for one, will be delighted to be regaled with each an every bit that ya have to share with us, Brother, an that's a plain ol fact.
Yer loaves are th Stuff of Legends, which we mere mortals can only aspire t'wards
If'n ya desire any assistance, jus PM me, be glad to help out if'n I can, in some way, or another...
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Your bread pictures are inspiring!! I’d love to know your techniques and secrets!! I make some good loaves, but yours seem to kick it up a notch!Comment
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I will definitely be Following this thread. You are a wonderful inspiration for anyone wanting to bake bread Richard!Comment
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I am offering to you assistance in being your virtual assistant. I accept bread as payment.Comment
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I think a step by step approach with ingredients would be fantastic. Thanks for sharingComment
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@Richard Chrz I will just have to say. The photos you take are just stunning. HOW do you manage to do them?Comment
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My friends and community has named this dough and sauce "Chrzizza " ‘’so I love pizza, that and burgers. They where really the only food that I grew up just loving. But pizza was always an order out. I have enjoyed working on this recipe over a few years now, I started by taking some information from the elements of pizza by Ken Forkish, good book, but it was not enough for want I wanted to understand, which led me to buy the Pizza Bible last year. I built a lot of dough following his cold fermentation, but, it was still a commercial yeast, and I wanted to use my culture. So I took what I learned from Tony Gemignani’s book a bit, then a bit about what Kenji believes, also inspired by Chris Bianco (he makes a flat bread that is at 125 percent with preferments) then decided to close all books for awhile and just start experimenting with my own ratio’s temps, times, etc..
I’m starting 12 sourdough pizza doughs today (and the first 6 of 12 loaves of my bread starting tomorrow.) I will try to take some photos of my stretch and folds, and put some words to them, these pizzas will ferment for anywhere from 72-96 hours before they are picked up and baked. I have frozen a few, but nothing long enough to really know what my long term expectations are. I would say though, if you want to freeze them, do it after fermentation, de gas it and ball it up.
since I have already fed my starter last night, (I use the word starter) but, what I really have is a constant live culture. Mostly because I make so much bread and pizza, that I no longer even discard. I do however do a cold ferment. As my culture doubles in 6 hours, me that is just too fast for what I want, so I have messed around with ice water, and cold refrigerators, to keep my cultures from growing too fast
when I feed my culture, I add the water first, and stir it aggressively to break up the culture . Structure that is there. But it also gets the water bubbly with the culture , so you have a bit more awake culture, before you add flour. then this will sit in fridge over night, and I will take it out in the morning and let it slowly come up in temp before making dough. I will add some on this if any questions, I don’t know if I will just do each step at some point in photos. But, I have already fed last night, so I will add a photo from my next feeding, (tomorrow).
my Pizza dough tools list.
water pitcher
KA 600 professional stand mixer. I’m actually getting a different stand mixer this summer that will be quite a bit better stand mixer. (For autolyse & final mix). Sorry hands just are not as good when it comes to this step, and I look for all ways to use my hands less.
6 qt cambro(s) or other food safe containers.
‘bench scraper
bowl scraper
larger scale up to 50 lbs
microgram scale
a couple of spoons for stirring.
if you really want to geek out, a thermometer, but this is a cold ferment, so temperature is not really super important, but play with it.
Pizza dough ingredient list for 1 crust, ( i make much bigger batches, but this recipe batches up with little need to do much adjusting.
100% TFW Total flour weight), 250 grams Sir Lancelot High Gluten flour 14.4 percent protein as well.
70% hydration 175 g (I have played with this dough all the way out to 85 percent, I prefer it in the 70-75, but make it and sell it in the 70, for others being able to work with the dough.
12.5 -15 % ( my active culture) or your active starter, I prefer even almost down to 10 percent and higher hydration, only because it’s more fun to play with. Note* the more starter you use, the faster this process is going to go. I find 12.5 -15 is about perfect for a 72-96 hour ferment t on dough ( you work with your refrigerator for your best results). The more culture percent you add, the faster this dough is going to grow, even in the refrigerator. My first attempt was 25 percent levain, and it was fully matured even in the refrigerator in less then 48 hours. So, that would make. Nice percentage if you are wanting. 48 hour dough instead.
1.5 percent sea salt. Lot’s of recipes call for 2 percent. I operate under the idea that this is going to mature slowly over 4 days, I want a little less salt in there, as to not out anymore taxing effort on my starter. But, I have made this at 2% a lot with no troubles.
if using for a larger outside pizza oven, or inside oven, I will add 2% diastatic Malt powder, however I have read on Kenji’s site, that he removed the diastatic malt powder from his pizza doughs for the smaller ooni’s as he said it over chars in that smaller area. I have not tried this yet. I am borrowing a ooni though from my sister, so I can work on any changes in the dough for the smaller pizza ovens.
Pizza Schedule:
8 pm feeding night before on sourdough culture. Into refrigerator
9-10 am I pull the levain out and sit on the counter to warm up a bit.
1:00 pm I do full mix flour, water, levain and mix, then add in salt after that mix, again, we are working with smaller percentages for culture. So, my thought process, the salt can have a chance to do a little more damage, so I lower the amount, and add them separately, some people will go both ways on adding salt lag, but again, this my way.
I will display in a separate comment on this thread, all of my steps through a stretch and coil (at least how I currently am doing it.
1:30 stretch coil rolls
2:00 pm stretch and coil rolls
2:30 stretch and coil rolls
3:15 stretch, coil and fold and into cambros, and refrigerated for 48 hours in a bulk ferment
Wednesday. 48 hour mark, I will take them out of the refrigerator for about a hour to loosen up the dough a bit. Degas dough if it has risen a lot and you suspect your container may might not be big enough. then I cut and weigh my doughs, (I work in bigger batches), made into dough balls and put in the refrigerator in quart size deli containers for another 24-48 hours to continue to mature and grow.
if I am eating this on Thursday or Friday (72-96 hours), I have it out on the counter again for an hour or more, before I shape it and bake it. Cold dough does not stretch properly and you have just built all this beautiful glutton network, hand tossing or rolling this dough cold, you just are not getting all this pizza can be
FYI, this gluten structure and dough gets so strong right away, I have hand tossed just to test, 4 pizza doughs together, so about a 2,000 gram of dough, can be hand tossed in the first few hours
alright, ask questions, there is no way I will ever explain all the little nuances, but will do best to answer each question with the nuances I’ve learned about my method. I have tons of photos to share already, and will take more as I continue to evolve this dough, and will put post more photos in another comment in this thread of the process.
Last edited by Richard Chrz; February 9, 2022, 09:44 AM.Comment
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Another question - how big (dia) is your one crust pizza in this recipe? -
RichardCullip I just made these 12 of them, and they are roughly a 460 gram dough ball, and I prefer them in that 12-14 inch, I have seen great flat breads, and stretched once to a 17 inch round (no tearing), stretched rectangular on sheet pans, etc. . I have only heard about 2 that have torn so far out of close to 100 made.Last edited by Richard Chrz; February 9, 2022, 04:11 PM. -
an edit on this post, I have moved down to 60 percent hydration on my pizza dough, as I am making more NY Style crusts right now, and found 60 percent to be an incredible joy to work with.
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