I’ve been super happy with 63% hydration for a good NY slice. Naturally leavened 96 hours, my sauce, pepperoni, and Italian sausage, baked in my Gozney XL.
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Richard if I lived with you or near you I would be as big as a house from gobbling up all the amazing looking pizza and bread you produce, not to mention the BBQ. Keep up the good work!
I'm kinda off my baking game as I am currently trying to lose weight, and all I've been doing is feeding my sourdough starter I got from you once a week, and keeping it in the fridge to keep it moving slow until I reach my goal and feel I can handle the extra carb intake again. My main carbs are beer right now. -
jfmorris having beer as your primary carb source sounds pretty delicious to me. I’d make you the pizza if you brought the home brew!
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So, I’ve taken almost 2 weeks off with little to no baking, only a few loaves to say thank you to a few people that helped at our annual run/walk. Even though I do little to no work there anymore, I’m just more of a mascot and the person who hands out the hugs and high fives over the two days, Those two days though knock me for a loop, way too much sitting up, hence no baking.
Returning this week, I felt a little less enthusiastic about it, wanting a 3rd week off, I decided to challenge my process, I made 3 batches over 3 days, and made changes to day 2 & 3, to see if I’m working hard, or am I working smart.
my schedule has always been, start mixing with stand mixer at 8 am, generally by 8:30 am most of that is done (bread dough and pizza doughs - generally 25lbs of flour), and it is onto the bench work on my counter. My process goes mix then set on counter, do a small bit of kneeling or folding to get it all gathered, this repeats from first dough on counter at say 8, then folded or kneaded again at 8:30, 9, 9:30, 10, 10:30, & 11:00. This week my day 2 & 3 makes were cut off at 10:00 eliminating an hour of time, and 2 less folds to do with my energy. I will repeat it next week again, and may even try 9:30 relying 4 folds. The photos shown will show 2 loaves, one with the full set, one cutting an hour off my kitchen time, I’d call that working smart.
My pizza dough only gets one real kneading or folding and it is pretty much done other than just a little flour for dusting and bringing it back into a ball to bulk. I really need to update my pizza here.
the loaf shown on the left is an hour less, although it appears it opened up more, that is truly refrigerator temp difference, meaning the one on the right was finished off in a colder fridge setting, as I was worried about it over proofing over a few days time. But literally some oven rise and expansion often is just a proofing temp difference, rarely anything else.
a profile shot of the above, but reversed in direction, the 1 hour less loaf is on the right in that photo.
The last photo was some bakes from yesterday. I’m getting very close on my long pan ciabattas, which means I can start working more on the long pan pizzas, with the caveat of knowing my dough process is solid, so any inconsistencies will come from the bake setting.
Last edited by Richard Chrz; October 4, 2024, 10:01 AM.Comment
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jfmorris funny thing, a few weeks back I had an owner of a local micro brewery message me and said, “so… my wife wants some of your pizza,” I was like sure, I’ll get you a pizza kit (dough & sauce). You can just make it and top it the way you want, he said no, you are not getting it,” my wife does not want me to make the pizza, she wants you to make it” he then offered to bring the beer, or bourbon, or whatever would get his wife pizza..lol it’s likely the 3rd or 4th self invite for pizza I have gotten. I am going to bake one for his wife this week, but for them to take home.
I also had a guy knock on our door and ask how does he get my pizza, which I had to let him know that he could not. I do not know the person, we have mutual friends, but I like my underground kitchen, which means it has to remain at private invites for my list of friends and their orders.Comment
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If you actually feel like going more retail, see if that brewery will let you “ghost” or “pop up” there. That’s a thing here in CA. This way, you are in an approved kitchen. Again, not sure of your HD rules. Plus, with that experience under your belt, it may be easier to transition to doing the frozen pies (I think you mentioned that earlier). -
I love it! If I was your neighbor or lived locally, I'd be happy to contract brew kegs and setup a kegerator at your house, in exchange for your pizza and bread knowledge and the occasional slice!
Thinking of which, I need to pull my starter out and feed it today, or I'll never be making sourdough again!
Consequences of the diet are I am not actively baking...
I did go off the rails over the weekend at an Oktoberfest we went to... can't turn down schnitzel, brats, funnel cakes, beer...
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This one is going on my menu, have a few ordered for this week. But I wanted to refresh myself on the temps and timing, etc..
mortadella, purple onion, a fresh pesto from basil, pistachio, garlic, some fresh squeezed lemon, and parm. On a 90 + hour ferment, 63 percent hydration.
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Naturally leavened Khachapuri, Mozz base, mortadella, garden tomatoes, a pesto made from fresh basil, pistachio, olive oil, salt, and grated parm, topped with some shaved Manchego. Arc XL
Im going to load these with bbq, just to up the notch in the near future.. (or spring depending on this fall. I’m also likely adding another Gozney next spring.
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So I’ve been super busy working with pizza dough and adjusting formulas, fermentation, etc… and having a great time making pizzas for friends, neighbors, and family. Take and bake is the most popular as they can bake it in their schedule not when my oven is running.
I was asked this weekend to bake 12 pizzas, and have 3 take and bake pizzas (after party) ready for our neighbors wife’s 40th birthday. Expecting 30 - 40 guests. It was an absolute blast, I ran into snag here and there, but I expected to, I just told myself this is easy. Just be sure to have fun. They were received very well. I had made up a garlic confit with Parmesan pizza drizzle, and hot honey.
i also had a friend of mine who is a former restaurant owner who is obsessive over sanitary for all the right reasons, come over and go through the entire flow and where are my hurdles and solutions. So I felt really good on that part, he helped me even stage everything.
Here is flyer we had up by the pizza station
Last edited by Richard Chrz; May 18, 2025, 04:47 PM.Comment
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Posted by yakima ”Sourdough terminology seems confusing. Fermentation, I believe, refers to proofing. I think there are 3 proofing stages: the starter, the dough, and then proofing the loaf. Levain refers to a 100% hydration starter/culture. I run thru this just to confirm that I am on the same page as those more experienced.”
So let’s put all the disclaimers out there. I’m not a scientist, I’m not even a professional baker, I’m a hobbiest, not so much a hobbiest baker, baking is the means in how you test your understanding of fermentation, structure, and shaping. Once it’s baked, I’m bored.
I may not even use these terms correct, because I have read a bit of a book called Open Crumb Mastery by Trevor Jay Wilson, I don’t recommend this book to a new baker, because, honestly while so much of it resonates with me, it’s above my head at times, and because of that, I love it. But his use of terminology was different from how I explain it, so, take this only as how I reference terminology when I say it.
fermentation is too big of a term, because truly it represents every part of the bake, right up until it is baked . That said, knowledge of fermentation is the 1st and most important part of dough. There are processes that you can engage in that will give you a great way to understand it, starter being most important. Speed of your starter activity, plays out in slower but similar in the rest of fermentation.
Fermentation though represents: starter, levain, initial mix, folding or kneading methods, bulk fermentation, final proofing…cold proofing. Glad to break anyone of those down more.
proofing is in your final steps, you are “proving” that the dough and fermentation is still viable, prior to next steps (those can vary by baker, and wants) but truly “proofing” is the very last step prior to baking, it’s often done cold to extend fermentation, which then breaks down more starch, which then feeds the fermentation and keep it viable, for a well fermented and great oven spring loaf.
Levain I feel is misunderstood, it is not starter, levain is the mixture you made from your starter, to carry various acid loads, stiffness in starter (like a lievito madre (used for certain traits in pastry baking and more, but think the Pannetone. Starters are generally fed at 1-1-1 ratios. Levain is often at 1-3-3 1-4-4, based on several factors, one being taste, as you can drop acid loads by going to less starter being used, and you can control a slower fermentation feeding over night etc.. Levain is something you make from your starter, your starter is just your active colony to borrow from.
Truly, this is just how I interpret this, there are far more qualified people to explain this. What I like about bread, it is not about money, it is about flour, water, salt, practice.
Last edited by Richard Chrz; June 9, 2025, 09:17 PM.Comment
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Than you for your comments. I like your distinction between starter and levain. It is more nuanced than I have read elsewhere.
When do you start building your starter into lavain prior to bake-day? 1 or 2 days? How many feedings? Discard less?
I appreciate your advice to build new starter for 30 days prior to baking. It reinforces the importance of patience.Comment
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I am making 9 loaves of bread today, not baking, but making, and a bunch of pizza dough,
I will break down starter feedings and schedule that I often follow.
If you take 30 days to build your culture, you will be rewarded heavily is my guess.
The thing that can not be taught is reading dough, that just takes lot’s of practice, I still sometimes get thrown off by a dough,but have baked a couple thousand of them by now, so I’ve just had more practice on how to watch and adjust methods. Also after that many loaves, I still don’t have it figured out at the level some do, I’m still very much learning.
there is one photo I think I can grab today, it would be a bulk fermentation, and what I look for (if using my ratios at least.)Last edited by Richard Chrz; June 10, 2025, 07:35 AM.Comment
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It all starts with your starter!
To me, an active culture can be re-fed every six hours if you're aiming for speed—possibly even sooner if you're carefully managing ambient temperature.
But what if you can’t get to it for eight hours? Or what if you need it 12 hours later?
These are all things worth learning. Your starter is essentially a high-hydration, active version of your bread dough. Understanding its timing is crucial—you want it fresh and rising when you're ready to use it, not one that’s already past its peak. Making naturally leavened bread is all about building momentum at each stage and knowing when—and how—to pause that momentum effectively.
Once you see a truly active culture (usually around two to three weeks in), it's a great time to feed it and observe how fermentation progresses, even over a day or more in the fridge. This will give you insights into how cold proofing works, how water and ambient temperatures impact fermentation, and how these variables interact.
I know I’m probably in the minority, but I believe a starter takes more than the 7–10 days that every book recommends. I think they say that because no one would buy a book if it told them it would take longer. Does that mean you can’t create a good culture in 7–10 days? No, it doesn’t. It absolutely works for many people. But in my experience, I’m firmly in the "month or more" camp. It takes time to play with, build up, and refresh a culture. You're allowing time for enough bacteria and yeast activity to develop the right enzymes, and that time creates a more robust ecosystem in your starter. It’s helpful, especially when you’re learning to bake, to know your culture is strong—it removes a lot of uncertainty.
Maintaining My Culture
Maintaining my starter is pretty simple. I generally freshen it up twice a week, though sometimes life gets busy and it’s just once. But once is always twice—because there’s feeding the culture, and there’s feeding the levain.
On Mondays around 1 p.m., I take the last bit of culture from the prior week—usually about 100g of leftover levain from my previous bakes. I add 100g of water (adjusted for ambient temperature), stir the mixture to dislodge the culture and create a slurry, then add 100g of bread flour. I stir again, cover it, and leave it on the counter.
Around 9 p.m., assuming I got the water temperature right, that culture should be looking really healthy. The flavor has started to refresh, and I’ll typically feed it at a 1:3:3 ratio (90% of the time). Again, ratios may vary depending on temperature. If the house is warm and I want a little more time, I might feed at 1:4:4 to buy myself an extra hour or so.
Usually by 8 a.m. Tuesday, my culture is ready to use.
I always make about 100g more than I need. That extra 100g goes into the fridge until the following Monday. That said, I like to do a Friday or Saturday refresh too—feeding it 1:1:1, letting it sit out for 4–5 hours, and then putting it back in the fridge until Monday. It’s an athlete, treat is as such.
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Excellent. Thank you.Comment
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I'm far removed from baking, haven't done much of it in a long while. I know more about this from the microbiologist POV than the baker's, but here is a simple way I think of it:
Fermentation is when a microbe (bacteria or yeast, generally) interacts with sugar, as you said. In home cooking, it is typically done by using an existing starter (like in sourdough, or SCOBY in kombucha) to do the fermentation, or start with yeast and flour. You can also make a starter from wild yeast, but that is a different conversation. Various starters have different qualities and behaviors, so you can bake with a new starter, but until you get used to it (and it to you) it will be trial and error for a while. You'll get a good result, usually, but you will need a while to get to know your own starter, and ingredients, like Richard Chrz is describing above.
The proofing is where you make sure your yeast, or starter, is alive and well and working. You mix and let it sit to make sure it bubbles, rises, whatever yardstick you are using. It is more of a test, to make sure everything is ready and willing to bake. My understanding of "overproofing", from ages ago when I learned to bake bread, was when you let it sit to proof too long, and the bready thing gets overly puffy, which can make an unfortunate texture, lot of holes, or even have a loaf that won't hold up if it's too overly blown up.Comment
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Thank you for verifying the science, I feel I understand it to a small degree (by practice), but also know that I’m not a scientist.Last edited by Richard Chrz; June 10, 2025, 09:02 PM.
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So, two photos, showing going into bulk, and when bulk is done (for me).
I have found my loaf at 760g generally is about perfect in the rise and fermentation I’m looking for, when it reaches 1 qt per loaf in bulk.
‘’that is the the top of the dome on your dough that shows good active rise, but rather the baseline of where the dough hits the sides.
I roughly drew in the 3qt mark, but that is 3 loaves, and you can see with my blue line where the actual peak of the dough is in comparison. And what 3 loaves looked like going in.
this happened over a very short time, so this will go into fridge much earlier, so it does not finish up the fermenting before I bake it,
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Last 2 feedings, there has been a thin solid disc floating on the surface. Indicating?Comment
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The lesser bubbles, that happens, you do not have a strong healthy culture yet, it has not productive bacteria in there also, the good bacteria takes a bit of time to take dominance. -
I use tap water, never had it tested, I just kind of go with if you like the taste of your water, use it. If I had to buy water, I would not make bread.
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I just noticed this thread a few days ago and I am now fully invested in Richard Chrz baking journey.Comment
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