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**Richard Chrz** · July 8, 2025, 11:21 AM

Well, I launched the dough that I let go long, and then kept in refrigerator over night.

in my oven at 500 broil, it definitely baked differently, but I cannot explain why. I feel like it was over baked, which is possible, but is it over baked because it fermented longer, or because it spent the entire night in a fridge….

Good news is I made 2 more doughs this morning at 58% hydration. So I’ll repeat some of this, but I truly cannot afford to buy mozzarella just so I can test and toss. So I may move some of my doughs into bakes, sans toppings other than maybe sauce, so I can sleep well throwing them away,

still tasted great, just tough to cut, which I think is result of baking maybe too aggressively. Time will tell.

**Richard Chrz** · July 9, 2025, 06:28 AM

Yesterday I went through 2 different methods I remember reading and watching a few years back. The Kenji video in Chicago thin, and then Tony G pizza Bible.

i’d post the link for Kenji but never seem to understand or remember how.

My first ah ha with Kenji was his hydration, and means of getting to it, I remember him being in the 50’s, but when he started saying 50 no higher I was like whatttt, but then he even gets up to 60% by adding 10% olive oil. A. For more hydration, and B. To lesson gluten structure.like I assumed Tony G was right on 62% Tony also adds Medium Grind Cornmeal, as well as diastatic malt powder, I. Was going to add the Malt powder next round, and I knew I had to order corn something, so I will order that today.

here is an interesting twist, when Kenji said AP flour, I thought well, sure, cheaper - easier to find, etc.. and yes, the lower protien will build even less gluten, then last night reading through Tony’s again, he was using it as well, I “think” that is the first time I have seen that in his book.

This has been a fun dive down a project I had put on hold. But I know if I start offering these, they will go out the door, and could be the real method to look at if I do frozen, most people love a good square cut tavern pizza.

p.s. I appreciate the discussion and all feedback, so please let’s keep it coming, it’s truly one of the most important parts of trying to learn this, the regional share and things you all have loved,

**shify** · July 9, 2025, 07:21 AM

Richard Chrz - moving my prior comments to a reply for space reasons.

You've certainly forgotten more about pizza making and dough than I have ever known. The reason for my question is that to me, the hydration and process seems closer to a NY style (minus the docking) than what I know to be tavern style. Thus I was trying to get a bit deeper as I can't quite tell from the picture if there is any bready/chew to it despite the thinness.

At the end of the day, really just thinking through dough vs. process. In other words, if I take my typical NY style dough and roll/dock it - what will the result be - similar to what you are showing above or something totally different? Same thing if I treated my bar pizza dough differently by stretching it vs. roll/dock and put in an oiled pan.

Right now I use different dough formulations for everything - NY pizza, sicilian pizza, grandma pizza, bar pizza, etc and frankly just wondering if that is really necessary if I just tweak my processes depending on the end result. I don't have the baseline knowledge of dough and how various things impact the final product - I usually get to a starting point by cribbing/merging from a bunch of online recipes based on little more than feel and what sounds right to me and then make little tweaks here and there -- usually by reading more online and adjusting/trying things.

I know I should test more and compare more but I just don't have the time, patience or honestly the diligence to do it (i'm terrible at writing things down)

**Richard Chrz** · July 9, 2025, 08:27 AM

A little prequel.

both 62%, the cracker thin is from the last two baked above.

**SheilaAnn** · July 9, 2025, 11:10 AM

Oh the places we go when we go down that rabbit hole of pizza! 💕

so I went to Tony g’s book…. He refers to AP Flour, Ceresota Brand and it is a higher protein AP flour than KA brand or Gold Medal, etc.

Richard Chrz when you mentioned “cracker thin” the first time, my mind went to PR’s recipe for this

and since I opened up the Tony G book for the first time in a long time….. I’m inspired to create more! Thank you Richard, and I am with you, love this conversation!!

**SheilaAnn** · July 9, 2025, 11:20 AM

A trip down memory lane…found it while searching for KLA video.

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/the-pit-mastery-program/pizza-amp-flatbreads-on-the-grill/1394561-chicago-style-thin-crust-kenji-lópez-alt-ny-times-recipe#post1394561

**Richard Chrz** · July 9, 2025, 04:39 PM

I’m not all pizza….. this mornings bakes.

**Richard Chrz** · July 11, 2025, 02:56 PM

I had asked Huskee to change the name to Fairchild Kitchen’s bread and pizza. Mostly as I dislike “my”, I’d rather have it be different, more openness to discuss thoughts on bakes and pizzas if wanting. Also if there is any other dough questions like jfmorris did with the cracker thin dough. If I think I can answer I will, if not, I may even try to see how to and share any lessons, always up for learning something new.

So, I have three projects going on right now.

1. I have two doughs that were 58%, no changes in bench work building the dough. I can tell you already, it rolls out different, I don’t like it yet, one will be left out to go towards Keji’s method (not the entire method), just the drying out one side, and one is in refrigerator in a bag., not certain how I will bake them yet. I’m torn, I want to bake them in the gozney, as when I sell them (this next week I’m offering them up), I would like the data, but if I started selling them take and bakes, which may also happen, so I really should have home oven experience…

2. I’m testing a gluten build process that may differ from this on the 62% that were above. I want to see if there is an any sort of difference when rolling out, not to mention hand tossing differences. This is so I can be a bit more confident in what I’m saying, as I’m hoping to have my wife film my hands while I’m talking, and share here to help answer questions in the techniques I currently are using.

3. I have not made a 65% in forever, so I’m making us one to enjoy, and going to see difference in shaping and baking. My initial guess, no difference,not worth the extra 3% (with the methods I use at least). This is a bit to update my head on. What shify was talking about with different formulas for different desired results. Honestly I’m a bit mixed on that, and will try to explain.

i had forgotten to order a few things, so I have not done side by sides on Kenji vs. Tony G’s, but, promise, will order this weekend, so in 10 days or so..

I had a great week with my pizza bakes yesterday. It started raining right about the time I started, thankfully my oven is on a cart, and we have a gazebo, everyone just kind of hung out under it while I was baking,

‘’a photo of one that went out, taken as I was getting ready to box (taken over my shoulder by the person that ordered it). Taco Surpeme ground Chuck seasoned with my Chipotle - taco seasoning recipe (in the recipes). Light sauce base with a bit of seasoning dusted, mozzarella base, center section romaine, Roma tomato from our garden, black olives, onion, shredded Jack cheese and topped with the Cilantro Lime Crema I shared last week.

and one of the 58%’s

**Alan Brice** · July 11, 2025, 03:29 PM

Richard, I Like the FK, BnP. Keep things easy. I cannot wait til I can knuckle down and begin making bread n pizza crusts. Specifically from this thread and others. I appreciate you taking the time to lend yer expertise and formulas.

**jfmorris** · July 11, 2025, 09:23 PM

Yes! Keep it! I love this pizza journey. And I am watching your experimentation with these different hydration levels of a thin crust with great interest.

**Skip** · July 12, 2025, 04:58 AM

Keep it Richard. It's a great thread with lots of interesting research and results all proven by You! Thanks for all your posts.

**RonB** · July 12, 2025, 06:11 AM

Sorry Richard - I forgot to say keep it.

**Richard Chrz** · July 12, 2025, 08:34 AM

Thank you everyone, I really did not want to, but realized this is not “the true” pizza thread,

Im back in the kitchen this morning, working through the dishes, and pans, seasoning peels, etc… I have some dough on the counter moving to next stage, this will be a young dough, only about 36 hours on fermentation, but it is for a pizza for my wife and I tonight, and I wanted to go up to 65%. Baking a mortadella pizza tonight for us. Decided to make enough though to run 2 65% doughs through the cracker thin while I’m at it.

the 2 58 % rolled out and kept differently are ready when I’m ready, and I have a few 62% doughs I’m working on today, purely for shaping, they will likely be shaped, baked and thrown, if not even just shaped and thrown. It’s part of this project for making sure you’ve built the right gluten structure for this crust. (I believe the 2 62% doughs will not be my preferred way, but wanted to check myself before I said that,

**Richard Chrz** · July 12, 2025, 06:29 PM

I had a good day of baking tests today. I have to look at my photos and gather thoughts

for dinner I baked a fav on my menu, Mortadella! 36 hour ferment, mozzarella base, mortadella, burrata, purple onion, pistachio, basil lemon pesto, then dusted with a bit more pistachio powder.

this is the front right pizza ball in the above photo. 65% hydration.

**Richard Chrz** · July 13, 2025, 11:40 AM

Alright, the disclaimers, I’m not a teacher, I’ve been a coach in my time, but rarely saw my self as teaching. So this experiment is going to hopefully teach me a bit about presenting what I’m finding, and where I need to retest (which right now, is everywhere, as yes I’m an over thinker, and live with paralysis by analysis for certain. I’m also not organized a bit, none of this is written down anywhere, this is all done by practice, and concepts of why, and let’s start answering how.

this should also always be considered, I could send this out on the inter webs and be laughed off the side of the earth by pro’s who know actually what they are talking about out. Truly I thought I made good pizza dough 2 years ago, my process is almost nothing the same, my fermentation though has not changed a bit. I’m very confident in the fermentation for the way I currently know how to make dough, and I truly hope it changes.

and of course typos and grammar. Remember it was only about 5 - years ago, occasionally I was driving my chair through head rest controls and typing with my eye’s, so my strength and dexterity have definitely improved, but my fingers missfire lol,😂 , also my dexterity has somehow taught my autocorrect to type things improperly, rather than the correct way. 😂

so enough of the boring…

I will begin a new reply here for the actual dough and photo’s.

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