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**Richard Chrz** · June 7, 2024, 10:07 AM

My kitchen has been super good to me over the last few weeks. Pizzas are progressing, getting different ingredients than I typically have, like mortadella, burrata… I am definitely doing a deep dive in pizza, doughs, toppings, styles, various flour percentages, and grinds. Etc.. which I will share everything here when I dial in doughs and shaping, thoughts..

My new fridge is providing entertaining results in my bakes, when your holding them around 46 degrees your proofing can advance a bit, not over proofed, but proofed differently.

I have a probe in a batch of pizza dough right now, testing fermentation schedules and my dough to find any possible efficiencies available to me.

and for me, anytime my ciabatta plays well, I’m happy.

**hoovarmin** · June 7, 2024, 02:58 PM

Incredible bake!

**Richard Chrz** · June 11, 2024, 10:42 AM

Last night I was searching through various pizza doughs, Italian breads, mostly photos. Of course the Pannetone caught my eye as always, I unlike normal, saw the words the “King of a Italian baking”, that was enough for me to look at some of the ingredients, pretty much like always, I saw eggs, butter etc.. and I was un-interested, to me those are expensive ingredients, flor and water are not.

The photos did however get my interest peaked enough, that it made me question the role of starter hydration, in the large open format of a beautiful crafted pannetone, and I have seen that same crumb in standard sourdough loaves, but rarely,

I have no idea how long I’ll play with this, but, for now, I have begun a Lievito Madre, I may weekly put it up against my standard starter, and look for differences. First feeding 50g starter, 25 g hydration, 50g flour.

**Richard Chrz** · June 14, 2024, 10:47 AM

Pizza Mastunicola: The very first pizza ever made,

Taking a deep dive down the halls of pizza history, and working on a pizza dough project.

Pizza in Naples was considered a cheap food of staples for low income that could stop and get a pie, fold it up “Pizza Portafoglio”, and keep it for the day’s nourishment, while working on fishing boats, and other hard labor us work, it also did not have tomato sauce, as tomatoes had not made their way to Italy yet.

Doing some research, and the first pizza ever (as noted) was made in Naples Italy. The name of this pizza was Mastunicola. Standard toppings were simple, as they were what was available,and affordable. The early Mastunicola was traditionally topped with oregeno, lard and basil. Later on mozz was added, but I’m assuming very sparingly.

This is a pretty ugly first Mastunicola, and many may even question legitimacy, being I did not use Italian flour. However, I think in the true nature of pizza, especially the first pie, it was making something that tasted good, and was done with a definite sense of economy to the time.

I always have oregeno, I almost always have fresh rendered lard from a past cook, and the dough, well, I almost always have dough.

This is also my first bake with my new starter, which is being maintained as a Lievito Madre. Also, this dough was made by feel, not by measurement, as I’m working on a simplifying my methods. Can I make good bread & or Pizza dough (they are different), without assistance to weights.

‘the crust was maybe underbaked by 2 minutes, very much cooked through, just not as much color, but that was on purpose for another project. 2 projects, 1stone. You can not make something a second time until you make it a first time.

**Richard Chrz** · June 15, 2024, 04:41 PM

To not take up too much bandwidth on SUWYC on my pizza journey. Today I worked on some more dough, basically going to try to bake one or two crusts a day, various sizes, no real toppings, just oil and some oregeno etc to work on new doughs, flours, and fermentation flavors.

I will likely post several here, today I par baked two small doughs that are in my fridge, pre loaded to be my first trials on take and bake style or even can I build a frozen pizza, and what all goes into it.

but today I also baked another long pan. 96 hour ferment, Saucisson Sec. couple tweaks need to be made, but it was an ok attempt at what I was shooting for, enough I know where I need to change for sure. Longer slower bake, and add the thinner salami with 3 minutes left, like pepperoni.

**Richard Chrz** · June 16, 2024, 11:51 AM

A few directions my pizza has traveled is the direction of lower hydration, rather than higher hydration. I have to recreate this bake likely 10 different ways, as yesterday was the first time I felt a new difference in shaping my dough, I had made it down to 50%. I swear I could have stretched that dough out to 16, maybe 17 inch round, it just kept giving. This was stretched to 14, as my steels are only 16 x 14.

I seriously can not just eat pizza because I want to make it, so, I try to find ways to drag out the experiment. The one thing I trust more than my palate, is my wife’s, she can find small nuances in food that I can not. Especially in my dough, even can tell me when my flour has changed somehow. I’m pretty lucky to have that critique in the kitchen, although there are things I do not trust her on also. She can also detect when my smoke is off.

So since I could not eat it right away, I baked it, cut it, refrigerated it, and then we both had a slice a few hours later, after reheating on the pizza steel in the oven. My wife said there was shift in the negative at 50 percent… but I don’t know where, as we did not have it fresh, so was it a reheating, was it 50% hydration, was it the temp baked etc…? I have no idea, but the cool I found in the shaping, makes me hope that it was a fluke, however I think we have just reached a point of too much flour too little hydration. At least for this dough protien percentage, a different flour may handle it completely different, which I’m going to figure out as well.

The benefit of launching so many pizzas right now, is I am advancing my peel skills. I have always enjoyed launching on a wood peel, and I still prefer it. But the advantage to having your dough ready for a metal peel, is pretty incredible to launch in to the oven flat, and equally pull back at same time just to see a round dough land, and remain round. Lol

50% hydration, 10.9% protien bread flour, Dakota Maid.
starter had been fed 1:3:3 15% levain, 96 hour ferment, roughly at 44 degree average.

**Richard Chrz** · June 18, 2024, 10:31 AM

A few may remember back to early this year I was asked if I would consider participating in a city wide, well, small regional area pizza competition, being the only amateur, and the work load of needing to make 60 pizzas, I had said no. The amateur side may never change and I do not want to be perceived as am business when I truly am not even trying to be, so I will still likely say decline again, if ever invited.

The 60 pizzas part I thought I could take a year to understand how that would look for me, the help I would need, the prep work I would have to have done, etc… and I truly doubt I will ever try to make 60 pizzas,

Questions I'm considering are, pre-shaped and in cardboard rounds, loaded and unbaked, pre shaped & par baked topped and refrigerated, make them, preshaped top, wrap and freeze, then cook when ready…

All of this has me questioning maybe in 3-5 years I could have a frozen pizza being sold at bars, or take bake at a local market. Not very likely, but fun to think.

These are 2, 7 inch tests rounds, that I did a 60 - 90 second par baked the refrigerated, after cooled down, topped. Covered in plastic, and back in to the refrigerator. 13-14 minute bake at 475 on a steel.

**RonB** · June 18, 2024, 11:00 AM

If ya ever invite Pit members to your house for pizza, yur gonna need a lot more than 60 pies.

**Richard Chrz** · June 21, 2024, 09:02 PM

I have read several peoples takes on a cracker crust, and am working it through my own sets of questions. Kenji comes in with a 50% hydration, and there is real merit to that, truly, if you want to make a cracker, you make a cracker, low hydration. Tony Gemignani comes in at 62%, and I think he gets a better tasting dough than you will at 50.

I am working on my own methods, with a few ideas from both, and adding a bit of my own beliefs as continue to move through this bake. I have two to bake tomorrow, but these are at 60%.. I think the range I will work in will be 55 - 60.

I will keep this in motion and please feel free to ask as I go, as I typically over analyze everything and never end up feeling confident in writing any of it. I will try…

**Richard Chrz** · June 22, 2024, 01:58 PM

125g BF, 60 % hydration, 15% levain, 3% salt. Roughly a 220 dough ball rolled out between 13 and 14 inches.

topped with my sauce (which is in the pizza sauce recipe thread) Italian sausage, mozz.

**Richard Chrz** · July 26, 2024, 06:56 PM

So, I’m not challenging Kenji, for so many obvious reasons. But what I would like to say, remember anyone’s way, is just one way, not “the” way, nor is mine.

I keep working on advancing this cracker crust, for a method I like. I’m not there yet, but I’m a lot closer (also, I hope In the same breath, that I’m never there.)

This however was 25% naturally leavened. It was almost fully bulk fermented, as fresh and airy as you can get….and I believe there may even be benefits to that. Which basically contradicts everything Kenji says.

**Richard Chrz** · August 2, 2024, 11:45 AM

Just in time for football season, go tell that foot long sub where to go. Game day long pan ciabattas for the party platter.

I’m very close to having this better figured out,

**hoovarmin** · August 3, 2024, 06:47 AM

Somehow I've stopped getting notifications of new posts on this thread even though I am Following it. What the heck? I've miss a lot!

**Richard Chrz** · August 29, 2024, 11:01 AM

A bit on my long pan, I’m truly not looking to make long pan breads, but, that may change. My whole reason to start making long pan ciabatta. Was to develop the dough and bake for my long pan pizzas, but instead of putting a bunch of pizzas and melting cheese, toppings etc, and working through the dough that way, I figured, learn to bake the dough, then adjust as the toppings dictate. However, I’m getting messages asking for long pan, so, I will continue to offer them. To me at least that is how I have learned most things, friends and others like it enough that I can continue to learn it and get paid by them to learn it, so it’s a win / win for sure.

Things that have answers, most answers I believe I know, but it is one thing to know the problem, it’s another thing to correct it, always easier said than done. My biggest learning is going to come from baking in a pan, and long ferments, dough does not relax the same way as a loaf that goes on the steel.

I have baked these long pans from 60 - 70 percent hydration, but more in the 60 - 65. I have went from 350 gram dough ball to these at 700 g

I think these long pans are probably going to land in the 400 range when it comes to pizzas, possibly even a par bake. For an 18 inch bread loaf, I think the dough will be 500 - 600 range, both likely in the 65 - 75 hydration. So, understand long pan baking over on the steel ( I may just get a 20 inch steel and make my whole upper rack a bakers deck), how to take around ball and stretch it out 18 inches with out creating big voids in the evenness of crumb.

Photos show the holes I get on the bottom. Really not an issue, as you can just slap a piece of cheese on it to patch it, but it does represent the shaping and dough size. I would have loved about a 1/2 inch less rise, but that is the nature of the ciabatta.

Photos of a few bakes from yesterday and today.

Yesterday’s bakes.

this mornings, I’m keeping a loaf for myself.

**Richard Chrz** · September 7, 2024, 04:29 PM

First Fairchild Kitchen Pizza went out.

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Fairchild Kitchen’s Bread and Pizza

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