Fairchild Kitchen’s Bread and Pizza

[jfmorris]

Richard Chrz did you ever revisit that "cracker crust" you were working on about a year ago, or post an actual recipe? Yvonne really loves a "thin and crispy" pizza crust, and I think something like that would be right along the lines of what she would like.

A couple of weeks ago I made a batch of sourdough pizza crusts, let them ferment for 24-30 hours (not counting the "pre-ferment to make the lavain), then froze as balls in the fridge, with the idea that I can put one out on the counter about 2 hours before dinner on a Friday or Saturday night, and it will be ready to roll/stretch and make pizza at dinner time. I've used this recipe a couple of times before, from the Homebrewer Association (including the use of DME, but no yeast, just the sourdough levain):

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/beyond-beer/how-to-make-sourdough-pizza-dough/

But I don't think this dough will be that thin "cracker like" crust Yvonne likes best.

I guess I will poke around under recipes and see if you posted anything, but if you have't - I would LOVE to see your pizza dough(s) as recipes.

Thanks!

Jim

[Alan Brice]

Such a modest Scientist. I have seen yer Creations, Richard. You ring the bell every time!
Thank you for spending your time to help us learn. Great to see you back.

[Richard Chrz]

So my apologies, I thought I would have this completed by now, I even took the last two weeks off to rest, travel to a concert, and thought it would be a perfect opportunity to advance this project.

I ended up really taking the last two weeks completely off, other than one small batch of 4 doughs for family and a test project). I will try to focus on it more this week, as I really want
to have that crust going out the door.

[jfmorris]

Richard Chrz I understand busy schedules and down time! Don't sweat it and no apologies needed! Glad you got to do all that!

[Richard Chrz]

So despite not working on the cracker thin crust formulas these past 2 weeks, I did successfully pull off another step in my frozen pizza project, someday I truly see frozen pizzas being an actual business, but maybe it is just a pizza ball and a cup of sauce in a separate container.

One step I made though was frozen pizza dough balls, I’m super happy with that. I have some nuances with the pizza sauce to work through, but believe I have a grasp on what I need to do. However, for my friends and family, and others in my list, I will be able to send them home with as many frozen pizzas balls as they want to pull out as they want to eat it, not on I have to eat it in 3 days.

Now to work on shipping for them too, I think they can be packaged frozen and sent with dry ice or similar.

[Alan Brice]

I am game Richard. Still have my Venmo? Seriously.

[Richard Chrz]

Alan Brice when I figure out a dry ice shipping, and if it is even close to being affordable ( I personally think it may be expensive) but I will reach out to you.

[yakima]

Bread. My starter from scratch is nearly 1 month old, looking pretty good. About ready to bake. May I ask what is your Loaf 1 recipe? I skimmed thru this thread, saw pizza but not bread recipe.

[SheilaAnn]

Butting in: I do, but when I bring it out to temper and feed, I crack the lid open. Oh… and I use the commercial deli cups/cam rounds. I also have one dedicated, branded jar (shown below) for small feedings. Then I leave the twist off lid loose.

[jfmorris]

yakima I've managed to keep a starter I got from Richard Chrz alive for several years so far, and it lives in a mason jar where I just don't tighten the ring down all the way. That way I figure if it needs to "burp" CO2 it can, since the flat lid is just sitting a little loose on top. I keep the lid like that on both counter and in the fridge.

[Richard Chrz]

yakima I never leave a lid on loose, always fastened, just make sure you have a big enough container. I use the 2 lb clear plastic deli containers. Plastic lid snapped on just like normal.

[Steve B]

I tried a whole wheat and semolina pizza crust. 50/50 ratio. I think next time I’ll try a 1/3 whole wheat/semolina/bread mix. Let it sit in the fridge for 48 hours or thereabouts. Definitely a very different flavor. Something I guess I have to get used to. Not terrible just different. Trying to cut out bleached flour as much as possible. Trying to cut down on my A1C #s. I forgot to dock my pie crust so it turned out pretty puffy. My wife’s was much thinner as I did dock hers. No pic of hers.

I’m still chasing that elusive thin crust that we both like. If anyone has any suggestions to help me achieve this I would greatly appreciate it.

[SheilaAnn]

Looks fantastic! Sounds like docking the dough is key. Also, I just roll it out, too, and then top right away as opposed to another rest/proof.

[Richard Chrz]

Great looking Za, I love playing with semolina, it’s one of my fav flours to play with, especially pasta. Thanks for sharing the photos.

Docking dough is not a necessary, well for something as thin as thick tortilla you will want to, but you can hand toss a pizza and get a really nice thin crust as well, and I never dock a hand toss.

[hoovarmin]

Really nice, Steve!

[SheilaAnn]

My branded jar:

[Richard Chrz]

Mine does not even have that, lol

[SheilaAnn]

Richard Chrz #inspiration
You rock, my friend!

[Alan Brice]

fk FTW!

[Richard Chrz]

Alright, I’m going to journal this pizza dough (cracker thin crust, possibly more if interested.)a bit, rather than try to have it perfected, it’s been a long minute since I have worked on this dough, last summer.

im going to do this through my own thoughts, and will do several different hydrations, fermentation times etc, to give any feedback I have on the reason I I tried that hydration, and what possibly is a + or - from the change.

i will run through Kenji’s once more, but I’m going to run the one I trust the most once more, which is Tony G from The Pizza Bible, which is very different than Kenji’s. I suspect, between the two of them, and my own thoughts, I end up somewhere in the middle.

so, these photos represent a dough ball at 300 grams

TFW roughly 150g (50/50 mix of Caputo’s Pizzeria / Dakota Maid Bread Flour both about 13.1 percent),

62% hydration

15% levain (fed 1.3.3)

2% Diamond Crystal Fine Kosher

i made these doughs about 8 am on Tuesday and followed my standard process, which I will break out into a new series, but I think following this, you would want your dough to shape and structure like the dough I use, or possibly lot’s of this could be off.

but fermentation times is roughly 72 hours, so this dough is super fresh and just entering it’s prime (72 -100 hours) on e y9u get past 100, my current dough starts to diminish a bit, but still very bakable, and some enjoy it still

anyways, first photo is the dough ball in container. The second is the dough ball on the counter, degassed a bit already, dusted with lot’s of semolina on the counter, cover and keeping it on the counter for likely an hour before I do next steps. I just want it to relax a bit.

[58limited]

Richard Chrz For this version did you do a primary ferment on the counter? If so, how long and how many folds/ turns did you do? I started my dough at 9:45am. It is on the counter and I've done two sets of folds. I was going to let it double in size then divide it and put it into the fridge.

[Richard Chrz]

58limited I really need to update, I rarely if every do coil folds on pizza dough.

But, generally speaking I stand mix around 8 am, for about 2 minutes, then I do a series of bench work at the 8:30 & another at 9. Let it sit covered until 10, cut & ball, let sit until 10:30 at 10:30 I put each ball into my doughs put a bit of semolina on the bottom then into my dough bins, day 2 I will take them out for another hour dust with semolina and push down on them a bit to de gas a bit), then back in

[Richard Chrz]

I also will say, that you really see no sign of dough increasing in size. My dough has never been better, and more shapable.

Caveat, I’ll definitely learn more over time, and change again,

[Richard Chrz]

Alright, dusting and flipping dough from side to side to make sure it does not stick to my counter, and to ease in handling. I rolled it with my handle roller, and then used the docker 3 times through the process (not docking until it was almost fully rolled.

this dough rolled out in just a couple of minutes, just a dream to work with, The 300 g dough ball rolled out easily to 15 inches, I think I could go another inch. I will need to knock this back in dough ball weight, will try 250g as I pretty much stop at 14 inches pizzas as that is all the bigger my pizza boxes and cardboard rounds are.

[Steve B]

Thank you for the pics Richard. That right there explains a lot to me. I thought when you dock a pizza you just need several holes. I used a fork and only tapped around the za maybe 20 times. I can see why what you show would keep the crust thin. Makes sense

[Richard Chrz]

58limited, be sure to report your review. Steve B for this dough. Yeah, you really want to hit it. There is another caveat to this. You need to have the right gluten structure, docking helps, but it is a step, or so I think. Which I promise to post making this dough, prior to shaping. But more on docking. When your dough is about to shape, first dock, then roll out again, which will then need to be redocked, and then for me one last time for getting final round shape, and last docking.

[58limited]

Richard Chrz I posted my results here: https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...08#post1748908

[Richard Chrz]

I’m just going to say, this was amazing!

Italian sausage, pepperoni, mushroom, green and black olives, onion.

[Richard Chrz]

SheilaAnn it’s an interesting thing. As there does seem to be a split somewhere in amazingly thin, versus actual cracker crunch which I have seen too,

I think personally the cracker is.not a representative of crunchy, rather crispness and no rise to the crust, (what these are) I see little hints in different methods. What Kenji and most show are about a nice crispy bottom, yet like you said can bend.. Again what these are made after as it is my only true experience from eating a lot of pizza

[Steve B]

Can you use any dough in the Gozney? How do you like yours? What temps do you cook at? How long does it take to cook a pizza in it?
Reason I’m asking is I might be able to buy one, the dome model. Propane only for around $400. Obviously it is used but pics look like it’s really clean.
Thanks in advance Richard.

[Richard Chrz]

Steve B buy it!

I love my gozney, cooking temps are where ever you want, I have seen as high as 950, maybe 1,000. Cook pizzas I. 60 90 seconds to 4-5 minutes depending on style, toppings, etc…

I have the Arc XL, and would love a dome. If I saw one for 400 that was decent, it would be mine

[captainlee]

You're confirming so much of what I have been learning. Great looking pie. Always looking to make that perfect pizza dough. I have one in the frig now day 3, 2 days in the process and a 24 hour rest. Ran out of time, usually like a 48 to 72 hour rest. This is a Neopolitan dough. Keep posting.

[Richard Chrz]

I look forward to seeing it.

[captainlee]

Richard Chrz. Here is the Neo pizza tonight. The recipe does say that the dough will be sticky and it is. This is the 4 th time I have worked with this recipe. It was good but definitely too wet, the hydration this time was 67%. Being at high altitude and very low humidity I always have to tweak recipes and play with them. Next shot will be 65% and see how that goes.

[Richard Chrz]

I’d eat that!

I admit to having no real understanding of the difference in elevation and baking, only enough to know there is a difference, so I would love to understand somehow through a video talk, or messaging, or type,.. on what your barriers are. 

I have a bunch of thoughts instantly, but will reserve until I can better understand, so if you want ever, let me know. 

big airy Neapolitan’s do not need to be high hydration, and 67 - 70% does not “need” to be sticky

[captainlee]

https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/learn/resources/high-altitude-baking

Richard Chrz. Here is some general info on high altitude baking. I'm at 8500 ft and don't totally agree with everything here. Baking or roasting is always at higher temps. Cook times longer for meat and solids like potatoes. Baking gets very tricky, even the barometric pressure will affect it. Sometimes baking brownies they are perfect and do it again and you have cookies, it never rises. I do increase the amount of water for flour. Always a challenge.

[captainlee]

Fyi for bbq

https://girlscangrill.com/competition-bbq/barbecue-at-high-altitudes/

[jfmorris]

Richard Chrz

Ok, I am trying to formulate a recipe in Paprika, which knows nothing of hydration percentages. I tried to work my way through the math. So when you start with 150g of flour, and say 62% hydration, that would be 93g of water. But you also say 15% levain (22.5g) and 2% salt (3g). Do those numbers sound right, compared to the 150g of the "main flour", or do I need to dive off a cliff where I calculate the flour percentage and water percentage of the levain itself in calculating the total flour and hydration amounts?

I made the mistake of asking Copilot on my laptop, and it wanted me to factor water and flour in the levain as part of the hydration percentages... resulting in LESS than 150g of flour in the "main dough" and less than 93g of water in the main dough, as it wants to factor in those components of the levain....

Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!

[Richard Chrz]

lol!

So all percentages are done off of flour weight, so those numbers look pretty accurate.

Don’t worry about the little bit of hydration or flour in the starter, yeah that can increase, but not enough in this formula to affect anything,

[Andrrr]

Why does bread have to be so complicated😂. Seriously though, the idea of trying to maintain all of this just seems exhausting.

[Richard Chrz]

Andrrr I don’t think it is as complicated as it seems. I think the general thought should be, if I can do it, anyone can.

[Richard Chrz]

So I rolled out another dough today. I held one dough back, as I know Kenji talks about the ease of working with older fermentation, I don’t remember, but will duplicate it again with his hydration, I think he was in the upper 50’s, and Tony G The Pizza Bible I believe is around 62 -63 % which is what I generally work in, so these last two were naturally in that zone. I think I understand Kenji’s reasoning on the lower hydration, but will test my theory this week.

I am really torn on not baking this tonight in my home oven. Just because, but I’m also thinking of holding it a night in fridge, then bake tomorrow morning. Learn a bit how it holds over night. I think you could just stack these in a bag with parchment paper between each sheet. I think you could even roll these up in parchment paper and store them in a long bag.

for what it’s worth, older fermentation, did nothing for shaping. Shaped identical, I started a timer and was shaped in about 3 minutes, that’s about what I did on last one, so from a ease in shaping, it can only mean that Kenji is trying to find ways to help people move through this shaping, possibly because of the dough structure they make is not in line with this particular style of crust.

So right now, my first belief, knowing how to make the dough structure is “likely” more important in the success of this crust.

[hoovarmin]

Freaking unreal. Mastery!

[Richard Chrz]

Thank you Dave, Im definitely not a master, but I’m at the point where I want to travel and hit up where I think the masters are, and learn what mastery tastes like, and the experience of eating there.

[58limited]

Pizza road trip!

[58limited]

I'll be making a pizza tomorrow evening. I went with 250g Caputo 00 and 250g KA Bread Flour and used your percentages with the Iron Goat culture. I started it yesterday at 9:45am and let it rise until doubled which took about 5 hours, then divided into 250g balls (and one 190g or so ball) before putting in the fridge. We'll see how it turns out.

In the past my pizza doughs lost structure by 96 hours so maybe I should skip the first rise and divide after an hour or two.