This is the Pitmaster Club at its best. Thanks for such great thoughts.
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Reading the thread, it's interesting to hear from so many Pit folks with enough land and/or storage space to have a garden, chickens, lots of freezer space, etc. Not everybody is in that same position.
Friend of ours sold everything they had and bought an RV. Been traveling across the country for at least 10 years and loving every minute of their nomad lifestyle.
But they have no space for food storage, let alone the ability to keep more than two or three backup rolls of paper towels in the cabinet. They may be an extreme example, but their food hoarding options are very limited - and we're sure that there are plenty of others in similar situations, where almost daily visits to the grocery store are necessary to keep the larder stocked.
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Would be interesting to hear from tstalafuse about their long-term food planning/organizing methodology, based on their comment in a different thread about the nearest grocery store being almost an hour away from them.Comment
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tstalafuse - we were seriously curious about how you handle being more than an hour away from a grocery store. How does that affect your planning/travel/storage etc? -
WillTravelForFood We buy fresh produce for the 1st week, light heartedly hope some will still be usable the second, but we have canned and frozen if not. In the event of a short term power outage during the summer, I have a generator that is large enough to run fridge/freezer. In the winter, I use coolers on the north side of the house. As far planning, I go through the cabinet/pantry to insure we have everything on hand or on the shopping list because if I don't it's a bummer. -
we also typically have dry staples and canned things on hand so that should we get snowed in for a day or two it isn't an issue. Living at altitude, our growing season is very short so a hand full of tomatoes is considered a bumper crop. Otherwise, we don't plan for doomsday or long term outages since we don't face those types of issues where we live with any kind of frequency. Could it happen sure, but I don't worry about it.
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First, I am in general an optimist. Second, in my career I have talked with lots and lots of old people, including family, but many others. The memories of people I have visited with go back to the late 1800s, who were eyewitnesses to history from the days of horse drawn wagons traveling across the prairie. Good times, bad times. I personally think the biggest difference between today and the 1930s is that we know how bad things were. In talking with my mom she said that back in the great depression they were poor, but she didn't know it, because nobody had more than they did. Today, we are inundated with bad news 24/7/365. Our kids watch TV and know exactly what they don't have and should want. Mom (and also me) looked through the Sears catalogue and dreamed, but today, not only the kids, but also the adults have commercials telling them constantly what they need to be happy, fulfilled, not to mention sexually desirable.
I think we will get through this. It may take a while, but we have been on a roller coaster for several years now. Without getting political, not that long ago the whole world shut down, and it still isn't completely back. You don't recover from that in a few weeks. We experience pendulum swings. Eventually, we'll get back to center.
Personally, I don't garden. I haven't for years, outside of a few tomato plants. The churches I serve have great gardeners who love to garden, and they always produce enough for themselves and the preacher. It's my duty not to turn them down when they want to share with me. I also have guys raising cattle and hogs in my congregations who will sell me one, and there are local processors who can take care of that. If one of my guys can't hook me up, my son manages a farm and ranch store, and has farmers buying from him who are always happy to do him a favor.
That's personal, but also, in my community, as in many others, our Food Bank is getting hit harder than it has in years. When you are stocking up, consider buying even a little more, and drop it off at your local Food Bank. Most of us here are very blessed. And it feels so good to give.Comment
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5% of my grocery bill is dedicated to the local food closet...
It doesn't seem like much, but a little added to a little can eventually become a great amount.
Lots of hungry people in this country, for lots of different reasons. While we've never truly worried about where our next meal was coming from, we haven't been without our share of struggles...its always good karma to pay it forwasrd
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MOST people aren't in that situation. It's great for those few who live on enough land that they could theoretically be food self-sufficient, but most people live in or near cities (suburbs, exurbs).Originally posted by WillTravelForFood View Post
Also, there are some assumptions that may not line up. If things got so bad that people are hunting the wildlife, I don't think they should presume that they can just freeze the meat. Who says the electricity is on and reliable if food is unavailable for months or years at the stores? Better know how to preserve (safely!) meat without refrigeration. And have places to store it away from vermin. And have the facilities, tools and know-how to butcher large animals.
All of this is very different from saying "look, prices are likely to spike wildly here and there so it's prudent to hunt for sales and keep a freezer stocked up. Oh and maybe plant a garden so in season you have veggies."
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@ComfortablyNumb, I would suggest there are three types of people: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who wonder what happened.Comment
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Lots of interesting and very good posts on this thread. Thanks to all who posted. It's interesting to me when I think about it how food is a common denominator and always has been all over the world and in all situations. It's good to share a meal with other people.Comment
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I've always tried to be one to have a surplus of goods on hand, even if on a small scale, to the extent my financial situation would allow.
Fortunately we have reached a stage in life that we no longer live hand to mouth, or virtually on the cusp of same, so some modicum of preparedness is easier to achieve.
we are keenly aware of how easily it could be to fall back into that position, so have become more mindful of how our money is spent, especially in the area of feeding ourselves. The onset of covid intensified my desire to be more prepared. We now have "a pantry" set up in the basement, and the extra freezer, while always pretty well stocked, is even moreso now.
we're in position now that, if it became necessary, my immediate family, and perhaps a select few extended family members, would be good for a few months at least. Might get tired of a lack of variety after awhile, but we wouldn't starve. Anything beyond that time frame we'd be in trouble... as would many I suspect.
and if that scenario should never arise, it's nice having stock on hand of most of the staples I use regularly.
when the item in the cabinet is gone, pull the one from the pantry, and add it to the shopping list to backfill...
And, of course, being someone that Likes to cook outdoors, I have plenty of fuel on hand to be able to cook for those few months..
the only thing that might get dicey is water supply. While we do keep some on hand, hard to store enough bottled water to last several months..Comment
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I'd suggest getting yourself some kind of water purification equipment. It can be quite affordable, ranging from iodine tablets, to filtered drinking straws, to filtered drinking bottles to hanging filters. All but the latter should be under $50, and some under $20. Check places like REI or Cablela's or, as always, Amazon. -
ComfortablyNumb are you on a well? Do you filter your well water through the Berkey? We have a well and the water is great, but I have considered a Berkey.
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I do what I can within my constraints (SoCal size yard) to be ready for scarcity if it happens. And I try to do it in a way that also benefits me if things don't get too bad.
Specifically:- I have 5 laying hens. I can keep about 3 months of feed on hand; quality of feed degrades beyond that. If things get really dicey, I can stretch that a few ways (eg. cricket farming), but no way I can ever be self-sufficient given my space. The only down side is that once you have quality, fresh eggs daily, you can never enjoy "regular" eggs as much again.
- This year for the first time I bought a whole cow from a local rancher - about enough for a year at the rate we eat it. I'm paying a storage fee for him to keep it in his freezer because I don't want catastrophic loss of my entire cow if I have a power outage, and also my freezer has a lot of pork and chicken in it, so I don't have room to fill it all up with beef.
- I started milling my own flour years ago because of my son's sensitivity to toxins. (Flour starts to oxidize once milled. Not an issue for most people, but affects him.) So I have a very high quality flour mill and sifter. Over the last couple years with all the uncertainty, I've increased the amount of wheat I have in long term storage to over 200 lbs. Bread, pizza dough, and pasta are all covered for quite a while. And fresh flour is definitely more flavorful than store-bought, so I don't mind the extra effort.
- I have a decent quantity of rice, corn meal, and grits vacuum sealed in usable size portions and stashed in 5 gallon buckets. (I know beans are a typical storage item, but we don't eat a lot of them so they would go to waste.)
- I used to vegetable garden a lot, but that got derailed a few years ago for personal reasons. I'm back in a situation where I can do that again, so prepping the fall/winter (SoCal) garden now. What I grow will supplement, not replace the grocery store, but every little bit helps.
- I have a pretty good stash (over a year's supply) of shelf-stable oils/fats: lard, clarified butter/ghee, coconut oil. I have a smaller quantity (3-6 months) of oils that tend to oxidize: evoo, avocado.
- Plenty of canned tomato sauce & paste, some home-canned meats, powdered chicken and beef bone broth, bulk seasonings, some dehydrated vegetables (not enough to live on, but can add flavor to dishes), instant mashed potatoes. All stuff I use anyway, just stocked up for minimum 6 months supply, over a year of most things.
EDIT: There's other stuff I do to be prepared for disaster (water, supplies, skills, etc.) but I didn't read that as the intent of Mike's OP. I'm just addressing here the longer term trend of declining food security.Last edited by radshop; October 25, 2022, 12:30 PM.Comment
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I have a cast-net and enough fishing tackle to last until Jesus comes back (that's my other MCS). As long as I'm still breathing and there are creatures in the sea and the waterways I'll at least have protein.Comment
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So thinking some more, I remembered when I lived in a village in England almost everyone had a few pots of something edible growing, but their backyards (called gardens oddly enough) are typically tiny and focused on other things like kids stuff or leisure.
From the base we teamed with the local council and cleared some land so the villagers could have a co-op. Now, to be fair I'm not sure how well that would work in the US... but there, none of the teens vandalize the plots and no one steals and produce from anyone else. Quite often there would be posts on the bulletin board offering to trade items. It was a nice little system I think every neighborhood would do well to give a shot if possible, if for nothing else than a gathering area and a local point of pride in your community.
I've seen some of the public gardening areas that charities and troubled youth programs have in the big cities like NY or LA, but can't recall anything like that for smaller cities and towns?Comment
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In my very small hometown there was a woman who started something like this. She set up a little unattended stand on a empty lot with this and that garden-wise with a sign saying "If you need something, take it, if you have something, leave it." I don't know about her success or if she's still doing it, but I thought it was pretty cool. My guess is that by October there was about 50 lbs of Zucchini sitting there!Last edited by CaptainMike; October 25, 2022, 03:27 PM. -
One of our local state parks has a similar set up. Plots for rent for a song, and many regulars that rent those plots year after year. Its fascinating to see all the different set ups that people have from fancy upscale wooden raised beds with flowers and veggies, to those where people use whatever scraps they can find to cobble together their plot. It's really a great thing for the community
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CaptainMike who would have ever thought this thread would have over 100 posts. Good job to you.
In keeping with topic, I wanted to add some additional thoughts. I believe that when it comes down to thinking of food differently it does not always mean raising your own. I for one have taken that path, but that does not mean it works for everyone.
Something as simple as buying local eggs, pork, beef and chicken helps the local farmers and provides food that has a much better chance of being safe to eat. Secondly when building relationships with the locals you have a much better chance of getting food from them if they have it. For the vegetables, sure you can purchase in bulk at local farmers markets and freeze, can, freeze dry or dehydrate as if you raised your own. Again you are supporting the local infrastructure.
Alot has been said about space. We are like others, we have filled up multiple freezers and thankfully we have the space for them. However, we have also purchased a dehydrator and it does a great job with fresh vegetables. When you look at space and raising your own, there is container gardening, square foot gardening and raised beds in a small area. There is tons of information out there on gardening in a small space and it is amazing the amount of food that comes from these options.
Finally, I want to add that if funds do not allow and if this is something that you really want to do then start slow and do a little at a time. The place we are at has taken years and if I live long enough, I have years to go to accomplish what I want. But most of all it comes right down to your desire to change the way you want to "think about food differently". Some folks are good with where they are and that is what makes the world spin.Comment
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I'm a little surprised at the volume of thoughtful comments as well. And we stayed away from direct political commentary, even though politics (aka greed) is usually at the heart of any manmade, and therefore avoidable, calamity. A big part of surviving and thriving is mindset, and we don't need to have big plots of arable land or access to a cattle ranch in order to be prepared to weather a food shortage, just a mindset and a plan.
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@DaveD mentions Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) ...good option for congested areas. I liked being part of a CSA , and glad that I was able to afford a "Share". Unfortunately, CSAs are not a cheap option and I understand why many families would stick to the local Food Lion.
Suggest reading "The Third Plate" by Dan Barber; fresh look at sustainability.
During the 1st phases of covid my wife started collecting /storing dry goods...I tease that she is a "Prepper"; however, I love when she takes the time to can stuff from her garden....
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I was on the first page I think...
Great point about getting to know the local suppliers. Our CSA happily works with us on half-shares for eggs and whole chickens, because my lovely bride & I just can't eat a full share quickly enough. And it's really not a heck of a lot more than we'd spend otherwise, only real drawback is sometimes we get stuff we don't care for (not big on kale for instance).
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DaveD yeah after I went back to find it, I found I had been focused on the later half of your post
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DaveD
That's my biggest issue with CSAs.
I live with picky eaters, and I'm a bit selective myself when it comes to veggies.
I found one though at a local farm that does it a little different. If you purchase a "farm card" during a specific period, they will add 20% to the value. The card can be used to purchase anything in their farm market. And if you don't spend it all, it Carrie's over to the next year. Works great for us because we're not getting stuck with a bunch of stuff we won't eat..
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Here is a question that I think fits under Mike’s topic that many people should have a view on it no matter the individual living situation.
Which online meats retailer has the most sustainable practices in terms of treating meats and its supply chain well? Think Porter Road, Creekstone, Crowd Cow, Allen Bros., and Wild Forks.
I am going to say, Crowd Cow is the worst. Donw shared this a while back.
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Hmm.. I think it's hard for us to KNOW since we aren't on the ground. Unless someone investigates all of them it's a blank slate.Originally posted by IFindZeroBadCooks View Post
BUT... if you realy want to be sustainable and encourage local farms, buy from local ranches. I don't mean local as 10 miles away since for those of us who live near cities that's likely not possible. But there are ranches in Eastern WA that I can buy from. And southern WA. And Northern Oregon. Buy at a farmer's market. Take their card and see if they sell offseason too.
One of the butchers near me brings in cattle from over the mountains too. If you have some one like that, patronize them.Comment
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There is one ranch just north of us here in Spokane that I buy from regularly. Lone Crow Ranch is the name of the place. And I have bought from The Herd https://theherd5c.com/ in Ritzville a few times. It is nice to have some small local ranches around to buy from. -
These guys are available locally via Facebook.
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