Thinking Differently About Food These Days

[CaptainMike]

This is not a political discussion so please refrain from political comments, but due to the undeniable current state of world affairs is anyone else starting to think about food differently?

With a failing world economy, war in eastern Europe, and war drums beating in the Western Pacific (sound familiar?) I have been contemplating the stories my folks would tell about the deprivations of the Great Depression and the shortages and rationing during WWII. Of course they survived and by all accounts it was more annoying than truly egregious, at least here in the land of milk and honey, but things have changed a great deal with our society since those days.

When I was growing up there were plenty of local working ranches, dairies, chicken farms and crop farms. As a boy and a young man I worked a lot in agriculture and had a pretty good sense of it. A great deal of our food was raised/grown and processed within 100 miles or so. Even the metro areas were well supplied by local or somewhat local processors. That is not so today as so much of our food (and everything else) comes from great centralized locations. We see the evidence and pitfalls of that with empty store shelves, long delays, and ever higher creeping prices for EVERYTHING whenever there is a glitch in the system.

We have been bulk beef buyers for years and like everyone else we like to stock up on bargain foodstuffs when the big sales happen, but I'm starting to think more along the lines of trying to be more personally self-sustaining. We're fortunate to have a plot of land large enough for a big garden and even small scale animal husbandry if needed, as well as neighbors who are in the same situation and frame of mind.

I'm not sure of the exact direction we might take, but it is taking up some time and space in my consciousness and I'm wondering if anyone else is having similar thoughts.

Again, let's keep the politics out of the conversation. Thank you.

[58limited]

I've considered this as well. I have friends and family with land, several in Ag production. I think I'm set to weather what comes along but who knows? I'm going to get some more deer this year - friends on overpopulation leases with harvest tags - I should get 100 lbs of venison or so. At worst. I'll move to the old family ranch but I don't anticipate it getting that bad.

[CaptainMike]

Yeah, I don't thinks it's going to get that bad either, but neither did folks in the 1920's and 30's.

[58limited]

Well, looks like the Dust Bowl is back in force...

[DavidNorcross]

We raised our largest garden ever this past year. Purchasing seed for next year this week just in case. Working from our own starts as well. We have always purchased plants or slips but this year we started all of our plants. Will do the same next year. We have chickens and have enough eggs for my wife and I and our children each week. Next year we will raise meat chickens and we will all get together and process them.

We canned, dehydrated and froze a lot of food this year. Also dug about 100lbs of potatoes and we are storing them through the winter. Are we saving money? At the end of the day, no. But we sure know what we are eating and most importantly we do not have to rely on anyone to eat.

A greenhouse is in the long range plans, but that will be a couple years.

Good thread Sir.

[CaptainMike]

Yes David, this is exactly what I'm talking about! As far as cost it's mostly the startup that's expensive. Are you planning on breeding chickens?

[DavidNorcross]

No. I am not planning on breeding. Just buying the chicks. I have thought about quail and that is something that I am still considering.

[CaptainMike]

We do have a nice little 8x12 heated and ventilated greenhouse that helps us get a jump on the garden in our climate and elevation. Collette has also toyed with seed harvesting for the next season's crops, but just scratching the surface. Her understanding is that you need to start with heirloom plants as most of the hybrids have replicating engineered out.

[Oak Smoke]

We’ve put away several pounds of beans, rice, and flower, somewhere in the 100 pounds range. Tuesday the half of beef I bought will be ready. There are several good lakes nearby with excellent populations of fish. Spring will see a larger garden this year. No mater what happens we will be in a place where we can save some on our food costs if nothing else. I am an optimist, but still cautious enough to be prepared. The wife rang her school bell and fed the deer earlier. There were at least 20 mature deer within 50 feet of me. It will not be for sport if we have to utilize them, but they are an asset. If things do get a bit tight I’d like to be in a position to help others. Remember your prayers.

[Oak Smoke]

CaptainMike Another thing I’m starting to utilize more often is my 9 tray dehydrator. It’s a way to have some stored food that isn’t freezer dependent.

[Finster]

Oak Smoke
What kind of stuff are you dehydrating?

[Huskee]

"I am an optimist, but still cautious enough to be prepared", I like that.

[DaveD]

Our main approach for this has been to sign up for a local community-supported agriculture deal, supporting a farm across the river in Maryland (local pickups every 2-3 weeks); getting our dairy products from a local creamery (weekly delivery); and ordering meats from online vendors like CrowdCow, Wild Fork, Porter Road etc. Keeping that diverse portfolio of sources as much as possible. We are suburbanites, so large scale gardening isn't an option, and my lovely bride does a good job with tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, peppers, and herbs in the space we do have.

So yep, I agree that being thoughtful about these things is a good idea.

[STEbbq]

This sounds like a more realistic approach for those of us not in the sticks. Some good ideas here. Thanks Dave.

[Bad Hat BBQ]

CSA is a great approach
My wife gardens and we are lucky to have the space for 2 large raised garden beds (3x20)

[jfmorris]

You are spot on about the differences in food distribution now versus during the Great Depression that my grandparents lived through, and during the times my parents few up in the 1940's. My dad grew up poor in rural east Tennessee (Erwin), and has many a tale of not having meat in the house, and carrying a bean sandwich to school, not wearing shoes either as they just didn't have the money. Most of the food they did have, they raised themselves, just getting by. When he enlisted in the Army at age 17, he was amazed at the the amount of food he got, and the fact he could drink all the milk he wanted - something he never had growing up. He had never seen a dentist until he was in the Army either.

On the food front - I live in a suburban location with a lot of trees on the lots around me that make gardening difficult. I've tried, and the sun was too limited. Short of turning my swimming pool into a hydroponics garden, I can always go 5 miles down the road to my parents and help them plant their 1/2 acre treeless culdesac lot with veggies though. He has a couple of raised beds. And I guess there is always hunting, but the deer get scrawny when there is drought like we've seen this year. I do get eggs from a local farm, delivered every other week, but since the farmer is 80 years old, I know time is limited on those.

I've got a friend who raises 80 acres of hay, and he only got 2 cuttings instead of the normal 3 cuttings this year. He sold almost every bit of it to a rancher in Texas, who sent some big trailers all the way to Alabama to collect the hay, making several trips back and forth. He got more than the normal price, but again - 2 cuttings instead of 3.

[CaptainMike]

You touched on a lot of important points, Jim. I don't think we're all in the same boat, but we are all definitely on the same ocean and in the same storm.

[Murdy]

We have a similar problem. Between the trees, buildings, driveways, and septic fields, we don't have much space for a good garden. I've considered removing a few of the trees, but I really don't want to. However, if push came to shove, we have a wood burner we heat with.

[RonB]

Yes. it is a thought I have had, but at 75, (next month), and with limited land, (and light), that's as far as I have gone.

[GolfGeezer]

Working my through studying the Dahmer recipe book.

[wu7y]

In 78 years I've never seen that many people I've liked that much.

[CaptainMike]

These are two too funny dudes!!

[FireMan]

The thing to think about in your musings is “things have changed a lot”. You did allude to society since those days. But, it is much more than society, sheer numbers have changed drastically. Attitudes have changed. Common sense vs. knowledge has changed. Food might be one of the problems headed are way soon. You are safe with the politics end of things because there are no solutions in voting for or against anything. A small family garden or a hunting trip is also not a solution. Maybe immediate & personal temporarily, but big picture, hmmm.

[Murdy]

The economics of hunting have changed. I am able to process my own deer, which helps, but it was a lot cheaper when I could walk out my back door with a single shot slug gun and go hunting.

[Huskee]

Lord knows we can't survive off trips to the AuSable or Greenwood neither.

[FireMan]

Huskee , we will have to sharpen our skills or, or just stay there & starve. 😎

[DaveD]

I've also noticed the historical parallels. My Dad and Mom were born in 1919 and 1922 respectively, and had direct experience with the Depression and WWII, including all the rationing here in the States (Dad was in the Navy). I still have a leftover war ration book that my Mom saved... I'm the family historian, and did a project with them where I interviewed them about everything they could remember about their early lives and families, turned it into a coffee-table book for a family gift. We spent a lot of hours talking about those times and experiences... I was lucky to have that opportunity.

The story of the move from more locally-sourced to more regionally- or nationally-sourced foods and beverages is a fascinating one, woven as it is through so much of our social history. There are many and varied factors and influences that led from one to the other, a complex situation that no simple blanket statement can capture. I read a book in the mid-2000s called "Ambitious Brew" by Susan Ogle, which traced the history of brewing beer in the US. The trends in beer closely followed those of other staples from the post-Civil War rise of national transportation, the advent of industrialization in all areas of the economy, the transition of the country from a largely agrarian to much more urban existence, to the timing of US entry into the first and second world wars, the rise of instant, nationwide communications, the growth of the organized labor movement, shifting gender roles, and much more.

Doesn't change the price of chicken wings in your local store this week, but context like this helps me gain some perspective.

[CaptainMike]

Perspective is all well and good, but you can't eat it. History seems to be repeating itself, again, and as an ardent student of history I'm more concerned about physical nutrition than intellectual nurturing, if you get my drift.

[DaveD]

Mike, to be sure! It can't be eaten, but it helps (for me at least) understand whither we may be tending...

[Finster]

That's awesome that you did that book.
Now that it's too late, there's a ton of questions I'd like to be able to ask my folks, and especially my grandparents..

[HotSun]

CaptainMike , this is a good topic and thanks for starting it.

I do most of the grocery shopping and a good amount of the cooking in our household (my DW dislikes the former and does not enjoy the latter). I have always been frugal and a planner, so when 2020 hit, there was no shortage of anything in our house. My DW, who always thought I bought too much (typically on sale), saw the wisdom of 'putting food by' and having extras of just about everything.

Even now, I am cycling through our freezer to clear space for prepared meals, and thinking about the prices I paid for certain items: $3.99/lb for bone-in ribeye roasts, for example. When I find a deal, I strike hard and fast. The other day I scored 2 20lb bags of smoking pellets for $2.99/bag (clearance), $1.99/lb St. Louis cut spareribs, and whole chickens at $1.19/lb. It was a good day, to be sure. We live in an agriculturally rich area, so if I wanted to, I could buy a quarter or half cow, get fresh eggs and chickens, and even raw milk if I wanted it (I don't). In this way, I think we are fortunate. In Delaware, we produce about a quarter billion chickens annually, give or take a few, so we usually have good prices and availability.

For me, this has always been the way. My family is able to eat well and within our means and budget. So to get back to your point about thinking differently, this is what I have been thinking about lately: how I am not buying the more expensive items and going into my freezer, cellar, or pantry and digging out what I paid a lot less for. This will always be about supply and demand, so prices will always fluctuate. Last year, I picked up a turkey at $.19/lb after the holidays. It became a nice Easter dinner. I hit the market right after St. Patrick's day and can usually score cheap corned beef. If the price of a given protein gets too high, then I'll switch proteins or dig into the freezer. I have 20lbs of boneless pork in the freezer that I scored for $.99/lb, which will probably become breakfast sausage.

Probably the one thing that gives me pause right now is the price of eggs, which is very high right now. Whenever there is a glitch in the price somewhere, and there usually is, I'll pounce. Butter is high, too, but I have at least 10lbs in the freezer, all bought cheap.

I have the financial means to not even think about food prices, but I like the challenge of the hunt, finding that really good deal. I hate paying retail. I also hate throwing away food, so I am careful about planning. I have the skills and ingredients to bake bread, so I will when I have time. When I want to indulge, then I feel no guilt in buying an expensive ingredient or going for a very nice dinner. In the end, I will still work the budget. There is definitely an increase in our costs, but with my freezer and cellar, we are literally living in the past, from a cost perspective.

I'm not sure if this is what you're after, CaptainMike , so I hope this adds to the conversation.

[Donw]

Our buying and storage habits are very similar and we also are, from a cost perspective, living in the past. And if we had to close the gates for any reason, those gates would not have to be opened again for a remarkably long time.

[Bogy]

There is a reason the price of turkey and eggs are what they are, that has nothing to do with the cost of transportation and might or might not have anything to do with the reality that today most poultry, are grown and processed in huge facilities. Bird flu hit Iowa and Minnesota hard this summer and millions of birds had to be destroyed. Iowa is one of the largest suppliers of poultry and eggs. It might have been no different if they were raised in smaller groups, wild birds visit everywhere.

[HotSun]

Thanks Bogy , I did not know that. We are a huge poultry state, considering our size, but obviously the demand and price pressures from things like the bird flu in states like Iowa are affecting our prices. There are also feed prices to factor in, but this ebbs and flows with the underlying commodity prices.

[jhapka]

“You best start thinkin where your food comes from and I hope you tend a good garden” -Corb Lund

[jhapka]

And don’t forget that everything is better with some cows around

[jhapka]

Work that shovel with vigor gravedigger fore the rigor mortis sets in big

[Jimmie Rhoden]

I don't have much land just a tad bit less than 2 acres I do have a garden and I have poultry and I work for a major poultry producer that's close to the sixth largest in the nation if there was anything going on I think I would have heard about it but you never know it's better to be prepared than not prepared the company I work for is hiring left and right and they just purchased another large company called Sanderson farms so that should tell you what company I work for, I'm here in all the rumors same as you and I'm putting back food as anybody in their right mind would do so in times like these my dad's 83 years old and he told me he's never seen things like this before I think it's a good idea to have a good garden and putting up your own food nobody knows what future holds but if I do hear anything from the processing plant that I work at in the poultry industry I promise all of everybody on this website know.

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

DavidNorcross I have an acre, of that I can grow on less than 300 sq ft. My septic field is in a terrible location, and then I have 2 other leach fields on my property as easements. In the front yard, the only viable growing space would be over most of the utility lines so would get ripped up if there was an issue. It's a major bummer.

[DavidNorcross]

ItsAllGoneToTheDogs that does stink for sure. I firmly believe you can come close to feeding a family on 1/10th of an acre.

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

DavidNorcross absolutely, I've seen some creative small space gardening too, like raised beds being dual purposed as a gazeebo or kids playhouse. Root veggies take up little room and go a long ways if harvested right

[texastweeter]

Probably 40% of our food is wild game, wild forage or from the farm. We enjoy it. The limiting factor for us is time, land we got plenty of.

[CaptainMike]

You are more fortunate than most.

[klflowers]

So I am going the other way. I took the rv to a local park this weekend to winterize it - well, just to drain the tanks and clean it up - and lo and behold they happen to have a long term spot opening up. I thought about it and decided to take the spot. I can keep the house for awhile and see how I like it, but I am pretty sure I'll be downsizing pretty radically soon. So no room for gardens or livestock. Or bulk purchases. Maybe my timing is off and I'll be one of those guys in a dusty old rv out in the desert like in mad max or something lol.

But I am the eternal optimist. I think we will adjust. Not withstanding all of this political nonsense, we are still a wealthy country, and we will be able to feed ourselves. There will be periodic shortages, but I don't think I'll be out hunting for protein any time soon. If it comes to that I am in big trouble anyway, last time I hunted was maybe 40 years ago, and it wasn't something I did well.

Anyway, I have enough rancho gordo beans to last for a couple of years...

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

There have been RV parks at almost every base I was at, and there were always at least a few families with gardens of some sort. The best one I saw was a bunch of 5 gallon buckets, I don't remember what was planted other than at least one bucket the lady said were potatoes.

[CaptainMike]

In my heart and soul I believe that we are all Americans and that being an American is in our DNA. No other humans in the history of our world have ever been given the gift of self governance like we have. We have fought for it, bled for it, and died for it and will do so again and again, because that is what we do.

[HotSun]

Poignant, klflowers , and like you I am the eternal optimist. Where some may see gloom and doom, I see opportunity. I take the long view of it all and as the pendulum swings, things eventually return to an equilibrium. And like you, I was a terrible hunter and an even worse fisherman.