Making "Close to Katz's Pastrami"

[OmegaDog12]

MeatHead and all with experience,
I going to try to make "Close to Katz's Pastrami" and have several questions. The recipe calls for a gallon of brine for a 4-5 lb brisket. I have a 15 lb CAB packer brisket and plan to cut it into 3 pieces and brine/smoke it. Is 1 gallon of brine enough for all 15 lbs. of meat? Should I separate the point and flat? How much fat to leave on the flat and point? How long should I brine 15 lbs. beef? Do I boil the "corned beef" after brining or does it get soaked (if so, how long would you suggest to get rid of some of the salt?). Or, should I give it a rub and go directly to the smoker? What smoker temp (I have BGE -Large) and what wood would you suggest? Finally, what final temp would you smoke to? Any other pointers/"little things" would be appreciated. Thanks for all the GREAT help and all the learnin'!!

The OmegaDog

[Jerod Broussard]

1 gallon of distilled water, along with the other ingredients, PER 4-5 pounds of meat.

You really need to acknowledge that statement before we can move on.

[Meathead]

Yep. He means you need to understand that the recipe is 1 gal per 5 pounds or 3 gal per 15 pounds. Be sure to read the Science Of Curing link in the first paragraph.

[OmegaDog12]

Sorry - I don't understand what you mean by, "Acknowledge that statement." I got the original instructions from this website. Let me know so I can make the changes necessary
Thanks!

[ecowper]

OmegaDog12 when we are dealing with curing meat, the amounts and ratios of the cure ingredients to the quantity of meat involved is really critical. If you don't get the cure right, you run a significant risk of making folks sick. What Jerrod is trying to say is that you need to stick to the cure recipe very precisely.

As far as post brining ... If you are making pastrami, your next step is to smoke the brisket. If you are making corned beef, your next step is to boil the brisket.

[SMOG MAN]

I just made my first batch of pastrami, My wife fell in love with me all over again because of it. I followed the "Pastrami Perfected" information from Pit Boss, except I used a whole packer brisket that I separated into three parts. As he describes, using Meatheads bringing method, and as Meathead describes adjusting the ratio's is on you, I measured the meat, adjusted the ratios to be sure the meat was always covered with brine and it was "Pastrami Perfected". Follow the path of those two and you will love the result.

[bbqoaf]

Such a great recipe, I have one in brine right now for this weekend.

[OmegaDog12]

Thanks to all and will stick precisely with the recipe

[RonB]

Good luck and keep us posted. We live for photos...

[ecowper]

Enjoy! Looking forward to hearing about a great outcome!

[Jerod Broussard]

Thanks to all and will stick precisely with the recipe

Good deal. You scared me when you thought you might could use 1 gallon of water for that whole brisket.

I separate the muscles and trim to get 4-5 pound chunks.

[OmegaDog12]

Allright,
Cut the brisket into 3 - 5# pieces and 1 gallon of brine per piece in a 2 gallon ziploc bag. Washed the meat in vinegar to get rid of as many germs as possible, then rinsed in distilled water. For some reason, there was no fat separation layer between the flat and point, so I have 1 piece from the point that is about 5 -7 inches thick, but weighs about 5 lbs. Is 7 days of brining enough or should I go longer? If so, how long would you suggest as minimum and maximum? Also, thinking about doing sous vide. I saw somewhere to smoke to the 160 degree stall, then vacuum bag and finish meat to 190 in sous vide waterbath. Your thoughts on this - overkill or a step up in flavor/taste? Again, thanks for all the help!!
The OmegaDog

[fzxdoc]

OmegaDog12 , smoking to 160-170 or so and then finishing up with the sous vide technique is David Parrish 's brilliant approach to making perfect pastrami. Read about it in his Pastrami Perfected topic. I made it exactly the way he did, using boneless short ribs, and it turned out so tender and delicious.

Also, be sure to rinse the corned beef when you take it out of the brine to get rid of the excess salt before adding the rub and putting it in your smoker.

You're going to love it. Many folks here say that Meathead's Close to Katz's Pastrami is one of the best recipes on the site. I'd have to agree. My family goes nutz over it.

Kathryn

[David Parrish]

You're going to love it. Many folks here say that Meathead's Close to Katz's Pastrami is one of the best recipes on the site. I'd have to agree. My family goes nutz over it.

Meathead says it himself!

[Meathead]

Yep. It is one of my best efforts.

[OmegaDog12]

New question. The 3 pieces of brisket have been brining for one week and looking good (brine is clear with no mold). Because of business, I will need to be gone for 2-3 weeks. Should I leave it in the brine that long or take it out and freeze it? Thanks much for all the help!

[OmegaDog12]

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the GREAT advice. That was likely THE BEST THING I HAVE EVER MADE!!! I bought an ANOVA Sous Vide and did the @PitBoss method and it was GREAT. To give you an idea, I gave away a 5# piece to a friend whose absolute favorite is pastrami and who was raised in Jewish neighborhoods in NYC and Boston. He ate at all the local Jewish deli's and he says that my cook was the third best he's EVER EATEN!! Thanks again for great advice and not looking down on all us noobs!
The OmegaDog

[Meathead]

Woooo hooooooooo!

[MrRiskPerson]

Though pastrami not a particular passion, we'd had some fun with corned beef in the pressure cooker and were intrigued by the "close to Katz" shtick. Also impressed by the Harry/Sally clip. Shoprite had a two-fer on "beef briskets," roughly 8 lb each. Bought a pair. Biggest "spec" vessel that I could find within budget was a porcelain enamel canning kettle, which had the added bonus of a jar rack that prevented undue contact of the chunks (had to cut each piece in half; they were too long to fit anything) and the kettle and with each other. Prepared per Recipe and left the kettle in the refrigerator whilst I went away on business for the week. My daughter agitated the pot every few days. In the event, it was 10 days and a shorter trip looming; everything looking benign per recipe description, I dumped the brine, rinsed the chunks, and left them in the fridge in fresh water for what turned out to be five days. Rinsed again and prepared one chunk in the pressure cooker (method verified as referenced in my opening sentence) as corned beef and found it at least as good as any commercial corned beef. (Would do this much again; painless and I know whit's in it; who knows what lurks in that gelatinous stuff surrounding bought corner beef?) Wrapped other three chunks. A few days later prepared the coating and applied to two more chunks (my steamer having only two compartments) and... they waited patiently in the fridge for a couple of days. Smoked. Refrigerated another few days. Steamed. And sliced. Whoo-ee; clearly I had not previously experienced fresh pastrami (if something so thoroughly processed can be so described). Strongly affirmed by my lady friend (of middle European persuasion) and my daughter. And so:

Katz's? We plan to make the pilgrimage when the weather is nicer. (To an upper east sider, places like SoHo and the west side might as well be on another planet or even in New Jersey.) I shall report.

Worth the effort? Intersection here with the foibles of cooking for one. Although sliced cold and nuked gently it's good, but it's uniqueness is right out of the steamer. I'd want more people to share the experience.

Why I am subjecting y'all to such a boring read: You will note ironclad adherence to ingredient and procedure but sometimes (significant?) increases in timing. Is this an irreproduceable result? Or is an equilibrium reached at each point after which time is not terribly important? Had there been any sign of distress, the whole experiment would have ended. There was not, and we're here to tell you about it.

Any thoughts?

[SMOG MAN]

I have made the corned beef and then pastrami three times, life has changed some of the timing but always FANTASTIC!!

[fzxdoc]

I've never made pastrami with the timeframes for each step that you report, MrRiskPerson . What I do know is that every time I make it with Meathead's "Close to Katz's" recipe, it's outstanding. My curing/soaking/time gaps etc. vary slightly from one time to the next due to expediency, and I don't notice any effect on its always delicious taste.

David Parrish makes it with boneless short ribs, which also rocks. Here's that link: https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...rami-perfected

Kathryn