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**Panhead John** · July 8, 2021, 06:31 PM

Great discussions and debates and knowledgeable moderators to help you

Moderators and members share tips, opinions on cookers, restaurants, tools, butchers, techniques, and more, all respectfully without flame wars, politics, race, religion…….. Maybe we should add "Plant Based Meat" to this list. I’ve never seen our members get this heated up about something so meaningless. C’mon guys, we’re all supposed to be friends here.

Addendum: This is not a knock on anyone who has ever posted this subject. Who would have known it could generate this much occasional venom to each other? I’m no saint, I’ve chimed in as much as anyone else. But honestly, maybe we oughta just give this subject a break for a while. I’d rather be friends with everyone than bring this up again. Just my opinion.

**Spinaker** · July 9, 2021, 08:58 AM

This has been a fairly civil discussion, which is what we want. Thank you to those that have participated.

The only thing I will add to this point is civil discussion is what makes this place special. Believe me, the AR staff is forever grateful for the way you all handle disagreements, 99% of the time. We should continue to respect the fact that everyone has differing views on all kinds of subjects. Contrary to modern belief, disagreement does not mean disrespect. How you handle those disagreements can.

For me, I don't consider plant based "meat" to be meat at all. I cook meat and veggies all the time. When I want meat, I cook meat that came from an animal, because that is what meat is and always has been. When I want veggies, I cook veggies that come from plants. I look at this whole thing like you would when exploring food substitutes on a diet. You can have Keto-Pizza or Weight watchers zero cal potato chips (if that is a thing) or whatever substitute you want.....at the end of the day all those things just leave me wanting the real thing. Which is one of the reasons I always pass on substitutes. They are never as good as the original and generally not even as healthy as the original. Especially since many of those "substitutes" replace fat with sugar. Which science is showing to be far more detrimental to your health than any fat. (That is whole notha can-o-worms) I am a big fan of whole foods that are not or minimally processed. That is primarily what I eat everyday. I am not perfect in this respect, but I make an effort to eat whole veggies, meats and eggs. I find the fewer ingredients a product has, the healthier it tends to be. I try to keep in mind what they have to put into plant based "meat" to make it plant based "meat."

I could care less if people want to eat PBM. Eat it up, if that is what makes you happy. If they wanna call PBMs "Meat" that is fine too. Go for it. That has no effect on the meat I eat. Everyone should have the right to put whatever they want or don't want into their own body. I am gonna stick with meat from animals and let others devour the PBMs.

Keep the smoke rollin'

**smokin fool** · July 9, 2021, 09:28 AM

So my PBM finding expedition has come up a croppers so far.
While many butchers or meat counter employee's have heard of PBM's that's where it ends.
All they can refer me to is the Vegan section or in some cases Halal foods. I have cooked Halal vegan dishes at BBQ's and its....unique....
I think the thing that is holding this back is just a complete and utter lack of knowledge on the PBM's as a whole.
Canada can be 2 years plus behind in getting some goods than the US, hell, I had Papa John's Pizza for the first time on Monday....
Have two more grocery stores to try this afternoon so see how that goes.
Not confident I'll came up any better.

**smokin fool** · July 9, 2021, 09:56 AM

Success.
Expensive, two â€˜burger’ patties $7.99,
4 sausages $7.99 on sale from $9.99.

Attached Files

**Huskee** · July 9, 2021, 10:05 AM

If you think about it, everything we talk about here is beating a dead horse. How many times do we want to see someone's ribs, or brisket, or talk about how they smoked a pork butt at 250 for 14hrs, or how to build a snake in a kettle, or 'should I get a PBC or a KBQ?' ALWAYS! That's a discussion forum and it's what we're here for. And the beauty of a discussion forum is the opportunity to click on a title and join the discussion or click on something else and steer clear of something that we have no real interest in. I don't click on very many ghost pepper or carolina reaper topics (to name a couple) because I'm not much of a hot pepper guy, but folks like to talk about what they like to talk about. PBM? I'd try it. Who knows, might be good. I've tried plant based butter and I think it's really good. Healthy? Debatable. Endlessly, endlessly debatable.

**smokin fool** · July 9, 2021, 10:37 AM

So my daughter Taylor has agreed to be a co-guinnea pig for this and no ones a more picky eater than she is.
Going to fire up the gasser at 13:00 LT and see what happens....
Got 911 programed into the phone.....y'know just in case....

**Panhead John** · July 9, 2021, 10:44 AM

I have read Spinaker â€˜s and Huskee â€˜s replies and everything they said makes perfect sense. This is a forum after all and we aren’t always gonna agree. Y’all have changed my mind and I withdraw my comments about giving this topic a break. (like who’s gonna listen to me anyway?)

**Meathead** · July 9, 2021, 11:19 AM

Troutman I did a whopper and impossible side by side. Whopper wins. Then I removed the patties and washed them off and tasted them side by side. Without all the condiments there is nooooo comparison.

**Bruceski44** · July 9, 2021, 11:42 AM

You can call me paranoid or a conspiracy theorist if you want, but I'm seeing a movement at the center of the PBM craze mostly focused on animal rights and climate change. People on this site are civil and open-minded, but we are not the ones who concern me about this movement. In my opinion, it won't be long before we'll be hearing "The science is settled" or "There's no debate" as these folks begin outright attacks on traditional meat diets. There's a misguided minority who possess outsized influence on this and other subjects and they want to control our lives. The writing is on the wall...

**smokin fool** · July 9, 2021, 01:27 PM

Started another thread about this but in conclusion:
That sausage needed a lotta work.
The burger patties were good on they're own, when dressed up with cheese, buns and condiments quite tasty.
Would I buy them again, probably not, beef is still the better deal price wise.
Would I eat a burger pattie again, yes, if someone else is picking up the tab.
On the whole I've eaten a whole lot worse.

**Huskee** · July 9, 2021, 01:45 PM

I think we need to steer the convo back to edible items and away from LGBTQ and trans commentary. That has nothing to do with this topic and quite simply doesn't belong here.

**Bruceski44** · July 9, 2021, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Huskee View Post

I think we need to steer the convo back to edible items and away from LGBTQ and trans commentary. That has nothing to do with this topic and quite simply doesn't belong here.

OK. I'm sorry. I made an indirect reference and, after seeing the comments, I thought if people aren't outraged, then maybe they need to hear the unvarnished version. I guess I did cross the line on that. I'll restrain myself.

**jhapka** · July 9, 2021, 02:09 PM

There’s a good discussion to be had here. I hope it doesn’t get derailed. I didn’t realize that there was any controversy surrounding plant based meat. I just assumed people who didn’t like the idea of it would just buy real meat instead. That was interesting to see.

I guess I also assumed that it was created for people who are meat eaters who for some reason want to cut a little meat out here and there and still simulate (?) the satisfaction of biting into a burger I guess. For example, my wife found out she had an allergy to a protein in dairy, can’t consume dairy products. So of course the answer is to cook things that are great and never had dairy to begin with. This is probably the corollary to "well if I don’t want to eat meat I’ll just cook delicious veggies not eat a cardboard burger." Some dishes need some melted cheese so she gets this fake mozzarella and I certainly don’t eat it but I understand why once in awhile the need to go through the motion of having the real thing can be a relief.

**rickgregory** · July 9, 2021, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by jhapka View Post

There’s a good discussion to be had here. I hope it doesn’t get derailed. I didn’t realize that there was any controversy surrounding plant based meat. I just assumed people who didn’t like the idea of it would just buy real meat instead. That was interesting to see.

I guess I also assumed that it was created for people who are meat eaters who for some reason want to cut a little meat out here and there and still simulate (?) the satisfaction of biting into a burger I guess. For example, my wife found out she had an allergy to a protein in dairy, can’t consume dairy products. So of course the answer is to cook things that are great and never had dairy to begin with. This is probably the corollary to "well if I don’t want to eat meat I’ll just cook delicious veggies not eat a cardboard burger." Some dishes need some melted cheese so she gets this fake mozzarella and I certainly don’t eat it but I understand why once in awhile the need to go through the motion of having the real thing can be a relief.

I had this discussion with Kenji Lopez-Alt on Twitter some time ago because I didn't get the impetus to recreate non-vegan dishes with vegan subs (eggs, mayo, meat etc). Why not just eat dishes designed to be vegetarian?

His point is that many people in the US who have decided to not eat meat are converts to the idea and grew up eating it so they miss it, but want to remain vegetarian. As I thought about this, I saw his point. To me, burgers on a grill say 'summer!' because it's what I grew up with. If, for some reason I decided not to eat meat anymore, I'd miss that and would welcome stuff that let me maintain vegetarian ways but come close to what I used to enjoy.

I still kind of get annoyed at vegan everything - mayo, cheese, sausage etc - but it also doesn't hurt me to have it available, so... eh. That's what I don't get about the people who are so upset about this stuff. If our choice to eat meat was being removed, that would be an issue. But it's not. You and I can still go buy meat and eat it. Just as we value our choice, why not allow others to have their choice?

**smokin fool** · July 9, 2021, 02:50 PM

Another angle I'll toss out for debate, our generation is perhaps the spoiled generation with the proliferation of farming at the the end of WW2.
I'm willing to bet the Vikings and Pilgrims didn't eat steak every night, even the reality shows where they toss some poor sole out in nature for a month, the poor soles come back damn near starved to death.
My parents spoke of times were there was no meat on the table, the great depression, what US president made "a chicken in every stove pot" an election promise.
Meatless society is not new to many, for us who know no other way of life, seemingly impossible to deal with.

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