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I Am Baker, Hear Me Roar

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  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1772
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    #16
    Huskee , Breadhead , HawkerXP All good suggestions, but the name has to really ring in my soul. LOL

    Comment


    • Huskee
      Huskee commented
      Editing a comment
      Aretha

    • Breadhead
      Breadhead commented
      Editing a comment
      Hercules...

      Definition of Hercules
      1
      : a mythical Greek hero renowned for his great strength and especially for performing 12 labors imposed on him by Hera.
  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1772
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    #17
    Breadhead First, I've temporarily settled on "Vinnie" as a name for my starter--as in vinegar, as in acetic acid. Second, I LOVE the SS bowl idea. I'm gonna go to Ace and pick up a metal cabinet pull, then drill a hole through the bowl top, screw on the pull, and use it as an easy handle.

    Comment


    • Huskee
      Huskee commented
      Editing a comment
      I thought Aretha would "ring in the soul", Lol. Vinnie it is.

    • Breadhead
      Breadhead commented
      Editing a comment
      Willy ... Great idea on the cabinet pull for the top. I might steal your idea.😎 Vinnie it is.! Vinnie will be much happier now that he has a name.👍
  • Willy
    Charter Member
    • Apr 2015
    • 1772
    • High Desert of the Great Southwest

    #18
    Huskee LOL

    Comment

    • ecowper
      Founding Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 2645
      • Maple Valley, WA
      • Grill = Hasty-Bake Gourmet Dual Finish
        Smoke = Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"

        Thermometer = FireBoard FBX11 with 2 ambient and 6 meat probes
        Thermometer = Maverick ET732
        Thermometer = ThermoWorks Chef Alarm
        Thermapen Mk IV = Light blue
        Thermapen Classic = Grey
        PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Auber 20 CFM Fan

        Favorite cook = Tri-Tip for the grill, whole packer brisket for the smoker
        Favorite wine = a good Bordeaux with steak, a good Syrah with pork, or a nice bottle of Champagne or California sparkling wine
        Favorite beer = Sam Adams Boston Lager or Shiner Bock
        Favorite whisky = Lagavulin 16 year old single malt

        Best Cookbooks - Meathead's "The Science of Great Barbecue and Grilling", Chris Lilly's "Big Bob Gibson's BBQ Book", Aaron Franklin's "Franklin BBQ"


        Eric Cowperthwaite aka ecowper

      #19
      Willy ... maybe you should name your starter Helen Reddy
      Last edited by ecowper; September 1st, 2016, 01:33 PM.

      Comment


      • ecowper
        ecowper commented
        Editing a comment
        Couldn't help myself
    • Willy
      Charter Member
      • Apr 2015
      • 1772
      • High Desert of the Great Southwest

      #20
      Breadhead Steal away--I'm glad to be able to pay back a small portion of the debt I owe you. Thank YOU for the SS bowl idea--the discoloration done to my Le Crueset DO by 500°F is disturbing--especially to my wife.

      Vinnie is quite happy, best I can tell. Btw, I am thinking that once a starter is really vigorous--and Vinnie is vigorous--the float test becomes somewhat irrelevant. I note that Vinnie can float or fail depending on the length of time since his last feeding, but he always responds vigorously to his daily feeding.

      Comment


      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        You have NO debt... I like helping people learn to bake bread.👍

        I can eyeball my starter to tell if it's active enough to use, but I ALWAYS do the float test too.😉
    • Willy
      Charter Member
      • Apr 2015
      • 1772
      • High Desert of the Great Southwest

      #21
      Breadhead So, I have split my starter and now have Vinnie and Vinnie Junior. Jr. is going into the fridge. What is likely the minimum time I can leave him without feeding? I think I have a fair feel for his appearance now and will likely figure it out on my own, but advice from a pro is always something I seek out if possible. I do remember Chef Jacob talking about very long term storage and I will re-listen to his podcast when I want to do that, but, for now, I'd just like do cold storage to minimize waste. Until I am confident of Jr.'s success, Vinnie Sr. will be getting fed daily and will yield 500 grams for my second loaf later today.

      Thanks in advance!

      Comment


      • Breadhead
        Breadhead commented
        Editing a comment
        I would feed Vinnie Jr every 5 days. If you're going out of town it can go longer but every 5 days is best.
    • Willy
      Charter Member
      • Apr 2015
      • 1772
      • High Desert of the Great Southwest

      #22
      Breadhead It seems my claim to be a "baker"--or a roaring @@@@@--is losing validity. My third loaf, which I just finished today, has MUCH less sourness to it--this is also obvious in the starter itself, which smells and tastes much less tangy than it did for for first few weeks. I have changed nothing--still feeding 50/50 WW and bread flour. Any thoughts? Also, today's loaf didn't take well to the lame--not cutting evenly at all. More like skipping/ tearing through the surface, plus the holes in the crumb were smaller. The razor was brand new, so I don't THINK it was the problem regarding tearing. Vinnie is hyperactive; he actually oozed his way upstairs a few days ago demanding to fed at 2 AM. (LOL) Any thoughts?

      Another comment--I just stumbled on your brioche burger bun recipe and I will make it soon. Any recommendations for a good, soft hoagie roll recipe? The ultimate cheese steak lies just around the corner...

      Comment


      • Willy
        Willy commented
        Editing a comment
        Atalanta Thanks for the tip! Provolone or Cheez Whiz? Onions? Rib eye, I'm sure?

      • Atalanta
        Atalanta commented
        Editing a comment
        Believe it or not, it's whiz. Fried onions most definitely, though without is ok. So ordering it would be, "whiz wit" or "whiz witout." American is an ok substitute. Beef sliced super thin and fried to at least crispy on the edges.

      • Willy
        Willy commented
        Editing a comment
        Atalanta I believe it--I like whiz, too. David Rosengarten wrote a cookbook called "It's All American Food" and his recipe calls for CW. He even says he likes catsup on it! If you can find the book, it's absolutely worth owning.
    • Breadhead
      Banned Former Member
      • Jul 2014
      • 1

      #23
      Originally posted by Willy View Post
      Breadhead It seems my claim to be a "baker"--or a roaring @@@@@--is losing validity. My third loaf, which I just finished today, has MUCH less sourness to it--this is also obvious in the starter itself, which smells and tastes much less tangy than it did for for first few weeks. I have changed nothing--still feeding 50/50 WW and bread flour. Any thoughts? Also, today's loaf didn't take well to the lame--not cutting evenly at all. More like skipping/ tearing through the surface, plus the holes in the crumb were smaller. The razor was brand new, so I don't THINK it was the problem regarding tearing. Vinnie is hyperactive; he actually oozed his way upstairs a few days ago demanding to fed at 2 AM. (LOL) Any thoughts?

      Another comment--I just stumbled on your brioche burger bun recipe and I will make it soon. Any recommendations for a good, soft hoagie roll recipe? The ultimate cheese steak lies just around the corner...
      Willy ... There's a lot happening inside your starter that is causing the variations you are experiencing. This podcast will inform you about how and why all of that is happening and how you can manipulate your starter at will. https://stellaculinary.com/scs22

      lame not docking/scoring properly... The more tension you have on your dough at the final shaping and tension tugs stage will give your dough a tighter more firm skin on the boule when you take it out of the banneton after final proofing. That loaf is easier to score. If your loaf is loose, it is more difficult to score.

      "Plus the holes in the crumb were smaller" We call that a dense loaf, usually caused by improper final shaping and not enough tension on your dough. That will limit the oven spring which gives you a dense loaf.

      lock your bedroom door.😆 Vinnie should learn to stay in his place.😎 If he is really active feed him twice per day. That will keep him happy.

      The Brioche dough we use for hamburger buns will make a great hoagie roll too. The shaping of that dough into a hoagie roll takes some practice but it can be done. Also you can use this sourdough recipe to make hoagie rolls. Normally you want to increase the hydration percentage up to 70/75% to create a softer crumb though.

      I would recommend you listen to the entire podcast because you will learn a lot. The section oh your starter begins at the 15 minute mark and runs for about 20 minutes. Listen to the rest of the podcast after that and it might help you tighten up your final shaping too.


      For the uber sourdough geek who wants to take their knowledge of their sourdough starter even further, I would highly recommend the following article:

      Comment

    • Willy
      Charter Member
      • Apr 2015
      • 1772
      • High Desert of the Great Southwest

      #24
      Breadhead Thanks. I have actually listened to Chef Jacob's bread podcasts (all four of them) several times, plus watched the SD video several times, and I am grasping principles. I've also read Wink's article a couple of times. I have quite a bit of geek (engineer) in me--LOL. What really puzzled me is how the character of my starter changed from sour to not so sour in the space of a couple of days, with no other change that I can think of.

      I have come up with a way to mimic SF in the high desert of AZ. I place a half gallon of ice (in a milk carton) in a cooler and swap it out every day. The temp stays around 60°F. Vinnie doesn't whine nearly as much about being fed and, as I understand it, he should produce a more sour flavor in the cooler temps. I had to mess with two different sized coolers- a smaller one dropped into the mid 50°F range. Larger cooler, more heat loss for the same amount of ice.

      The lack of adequate tension in the skin of the loaf makes sense with what I experienced when the razor tore instead of cut cleanly.

      Why does shaping the brioche into a sub roll instead of a boule take practice?

      Thanks again for your time and advice!

      Comment

      • Breadhead
        Banned Former Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 1

        #25
        Willy ...

        "I have come up with a way to mimic SF in the high desert of AZ. I place a half gallon of ice (in a milk carton) in a cooler and swap it out every day. The temp stays around 60°F. Vinnie doesn't whine nearly as much about being fed and, as I understand it, he should produce a more sour flavor in the cooler temps. I had to mess with two different sized coolers- a smaller one dropped into the mid 50°F range. Larger cooler, more heat loss for the same amount of ice."

        hmmm... I think you took Chef Jacob's analogy of what makes San Francisco sourdough bread unique and very acidic to an extreme. Pay more attention to the type of flour they use. I would use your refrigerator at 36/38° to slow it down even more, which will product more acidic acid. Your cooler method it to much work... IMHO.

        "What really puzzled me is how the character of my starter changed from sour to not so sour in the space of a couple of days, with no other change that I can think of."

        It's all science... Lactic acid VS acidic acid. Your starter originally produced more Acidic acid and less lactic acid. Listen to the podcast again. Chef Jacob explains how that works very clearly.

        Watch the video again for final shaping and tension pulls. I personally apply more tension on the tension pulls than Chef Jacob does in his video. I want my dough so TIGHT I'm worried I'm going to tear the outer skin open. Be aggressive on your tension pulls. That will give you more oven spring and a more open and airy crumb.
        Last edited by Breadhead; September 10th, 2016, 02:06 AM.

        Comment

        • RonB
          Club Member
          • Apr 2016
          • 11422
          • Near Richmond VA
          • Weber Performer Deluxe
            SNS
            Pizza insert
            Rotisserie
            Smokenator 1000
            Cookshack Smokette Elite
            2 Thermapens
            Chefalarm
            Dot
            lots of probes.
            CyberQ

          #26
          Willy - there are lots of videos online on how to make different shapes with your dough. The "problem" with shaping a torpedo, (or sub roll, or batard - all are similar) is that it's a little trickier getting the shapes right, but it just takes practice. Here is a good video on shaping dough for different shapes. I suggest you go to youtube and search for shaping videos - there are a ton. You will find one - maybe more, that work for you.

          Comment


          • Breadhead
            Breadhead commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes... YouTube has great videos on shaping all shapes of bread. The higher hydration doughs can be difficult though. Try shaping a 95% hydration ciabatta bread.😁
        • Willy
          Charter Member
          • Apr 2015
          • 1772
          • High Desert of the Great Southwest

          #27
          Breadhead Thanks again for your comments. I think I am doing a poor job of communicating. I do understand that cooler temps yield a more sour taste; that's why I started SF in AZ in the cooler, which, by the way, is really no extra work at all. I hope to give more advantage to the acetic acid bugs and less to the lactic acid ones. I also have Vinnie Jr. in the fridge, though I haven't done anything with him yet beyond feedings. I guess my question should have been: Have you ever had a starter change character--go from sour to "sweet"--in the space of a couple of days, with all else remaining constant--room temp storage (mid-70°F range) and constant, identical feeding schedule and ingredients?

          Vinnie has been unusual I believe--perhaps I was lucky enough to "give birth" (LOL) to him during our rainy season when maybe lots of LAB and wild yeasts were present. At any rate, he never stalled and he turned sour quickly even in my relatively high temps. The one difficulty I had, which in retrospect I don't believe was a real difficulty, was passing the float test. I am now pretty certain that waiting an entire day to do the FT meant that Vinnie has given his all and decided to nap until meal time.

          Thanks for the comments about the importance of tension pulls. The loaf that didn't cut well I had accidentally floured the bottom of before doing the pulls--natch it wasn't sticky enough to give a good pull.

          Finally, in addition to my sincere gratitude for your help, I must also curse you and Chef Jacob (LOL). I now own a banneton--with liner--, a lame, made a visit to our local Neapolitan-style pizza place to buy flour (successfully), and just received today my copy of Reinhart's "Crust and Crumb". More to follow, no doubt. Bread is as addictive as BBQ.
          Last edited by Willy; September 11th, 2016, 08:50 AM.

          Comment

          • MBMorgan
            Club Member
            • Sep 2015
            • 5796
            • Colorado
            • > Weber Genesis EP-330
              > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
              > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
              > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
              > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
              to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
              > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
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              > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
              > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

            #28
            Originally posted by Willy View Post
            Have you ever had a starter change character--go from sour to "sweet"--in the space of a couple of days, with all else remaining constant--room temp storage (mid-70°F range) and constant, identical feeding schedule and ingredients?
            I have ... but a little extra whole wheat in the poolish followed by a few days back into the fridge brought back just enough of the sour ... then back out onto the counter before the sour became too pronounced.

            Comment


            • Willy
              Willy commented
              Editing a comment
              Sounds to me like you are a pretty good bread baker, too?
          • Breadhead
            Banned Former Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 1

            #29
            Willy

            You have "MBMBS"... Must Bake More Bread Syndrome. The good thing about MBMBS is it's much less expensive than MCS.👍 A bag of flour VS a brisket, you win.👍 Plus you can make bread while your smoker is doing its thing.

            Comment

            • MBMorgan
              Club Member
              • Sep 2015
              • 5796
              • Colorado
              • > Weber Genesis EP-330
                > Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker
                > Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
                > WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative)
                > Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
                to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
                > Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
                > Thermoworks Smoke
                > 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
                > Thermoworks Thermapen
                > Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
                > Anova sous vide circulator
                > Searzall torch
                > BBQ Guru Rib Ring

                > Favorite Beer: Guinness Extra Stout, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, or Alaskan Amber
                > Favorite Wine: Klinker Brick Old Ghost Zinfandel or Matetic Corralillo Winemaker's Blend
                > Favorite Whiskey: Balvenie Double Wood Scotch or Jameson Irish

              #30
              Originally posted by Breadhead View Post
              Willy

              You have "MBMBS"... Must Bake More Bread Syndrome. The good thing about MBMBS is it's much less expensive than MCS.👍 A bag of flour VS a brisket, you win.👍 Plus you can make bread while your smoker is doing its thing.
              Willy isn't alone. I just took delivery of my second banneton and extra blades for the lame. The wife thought I was insane when I got started (hooked, really) a few months ago. Now she pesters me for details like "when's the next loaf???" and today had me on the phone with one of her sisters to tell her all about making artisan sourdough. Among other things, I pointed her to StellaCulinary.com as a great starting point (she's not a smoker or griller or I would have suggested AR, too).

              BTW, we might need to change the MBMBS acronym to something else. My initials are MBM ... and we all know what BS stands for ... ...

              Comment


              • Willy
                Willy commented
                Editing a comment
                My last name starts with an "S"--change "Willy" to "Bill" and what have you got? LOL

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