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I Am Baker, Hear Me Roar
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Breadhead First, I've temporarily settled on "Vinnie" as a name for my starter--as in vinegar, as in acetic acid. Second, I LOVE the SS bowl idea. I'm gonna go to Ace and pick up a metal cabinet pull, then drill a hole through the bowl top, screw on the pull, and use it as an easy handle.
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Founding Member
- Jul 2014
- 5568
- Maple Valley, WA
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Grill/Smoke/Roast = SnS Grills Kettle + SnS Deluxe Insert & Drip n' Griddle
Grill/Smoke/Roast = Hasty-Bake Gourmet Dual Finish with HB rotisserie and Grill Grates
Smoke = Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Pizza = Blackstone Propane Pizza Oven (Stacy's, but she let's me use it sometimes)
Indoor Cooking = LG Studio 30" gas range
Camp Cooking = Coleman 2 burner white gas stove
Thermometer = FireBoard FBX2 with 2 ambient and 6 meat probes
Thermapen Mk IV = Light blue
Thermapen Mk IV = Black
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Auber 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 1 fan)
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Fireboard 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 2 fan)
Knives
Wusthof Classic Ikon set: 9" carving knive, 2X 8" Chef's Knife, 7" Santoku and three utility knives
Kamikoto Kuro set: 7" Santoku, 6.5" Nakiri, 5" Utility
Amazing Ribs Brazilian Steak knife set
Favorite wine = whatever is currently in the wine rack
Favorite beer = Sam Adams Boston Lager or Shiner Bock
Favorite whisky = Lagavulin Distiller's Edition 16 year old single malt
Best Cookbooks - Meathead's "The Science of Great Barbecue and Grilling", Chris Lilly's "Big Bob Gibson's BBQ Book", Aaron Franklin's "Franklin BBQ"
Cookbooks to check out - Raichlen's "Brisket Chronicles" and anything by Adam Perry Lang.
Current fanboy cookbook - "Chasing Smoke: Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant"
Some Posts in Pitmaster to check out:
Eric's Brisket Method
Eric's Method for Drunken Texas Beans
Stacy's Bouef Bourguignon
Eric's Smoked Texas Chili
Rancho Gordo Beans and Bean Club
Troutman's Ribs - Step By Step Primer
Grilled Pork Chops: Harissa Marinade
Light My (Hasty Bake) Fire
Eric
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Breadhead Steal away--I'm glad to be able to pay back a small portion of the debt I owe you. Thank YOU for the SS bowl idea--the discoloration done to my Le Crueset DO by 500°F is disturbing--especially to my wife.
Vinnie is quite happy, best I can tell. Btw, I am thinking that once a starter is really vigorous--and Vinnie is vigorous--the float test becomes somewhat irrelevant. I note that Vinnie can float or fail depending on the length of time since his last feeding, but he always responds vigorously to his daily feeding.
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Breadhead So, I have split my starter and now have Vinnie and Vinnie Junior. Jr. is going into the fridge. What is likely the minimum time I can leave him without feeding? I think I have a fair feel for his appearance now and will likely figure it out on my own, but advice from a pro is always something I seek out if possible. I do remember Chef Jacob talking about very long term storage and I will re-listen to his podcast when I want to do that, but, for now, I'd just like do cold storage to minimize waste. Until I am confident of Jr.'s success, Vinnie Sr. will be getting fed daily and will yield 500 grams for my second loaf later today.
Thanks in advance!
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Breadhead It seems my claim to be a "baker"--or a roaring @@@@@--is losing validity. My third loaf, which I just finished today, has MUCH less sourness to it--this is also obvious in the starter itself, which smells and tastes much less tangy than it did for for first few weeks. I have changed nothing--still feeding 50/50 WW and bread flour. Any thoughts? Also, today's loaf didn't take well to the lame--not cutting evenly at all. More like skipping/ tearing through the surface, plus the holes in the crumb were smaller. The razor was brand new, so I don't THINK it was the problem regarding tearing. Vinnie is hyperactive; he actually oozed his way upstairs a few days ago demanding to fed at 2 AM. (LOL) Any thoughts?
Another comment--I just stumbled on your brioche burger bun recipe and I will make it soon. Any recommendations for a good, soft hoagie roll recipe? The ultimate cheese steak lies just around the corner...
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Believe it or not, it's whiz. Fried onions most definitely, though without is ok. So ordering it would be, "whiz wit" or "whiz witout." American is an ok substitute. Beef sliced super thin and fried to at least crispy on the edges.
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Atalanta I believe it--I like whiz, too. David Rosengarten wrote a cookbook called "It's All American Food" and his recipe calls for CW. He even says he likes catsup on it! If you can find the book, it's absolutely worth owning.
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Originally posted by Willy View PostBreadhead It seems my claim to be a "baker"--or a roaring @@@@@--is losing validity. My third loaf, which I just finished today, has MUCH less sourness to it--this is also obvious in the starter itself, which smells and tastes much less tangy than it did for for first few weeks. I have changed nothing--still feeding 50/50 WW and bread flour. Any thoughts? Also, today's loaf didn't take well to the lame--not cutting evenly at all. More like skipping/ tearing through the surface, plus the holes in the crumb were smaller. The razor was brand new, so I don't THINK it was the problem regarding tearing. Vinnie is hyperactive; he actually oozed his way upstairs a few days ago demanding to fed at 2 AM. (LOL) Any thoughts?
Another comment--I just stumbled on your brioche burger bun recipe and I will make it soon. Any recommendations for a good, soft hoagie roll recipe? The ultimate cheese steak lies just around the corner...
lame not docking/scoring properly... The more tension you have on your dough at the final shaping and tension tugs stage will give your dough a tighter more firm skin on the boule when you take it out of the banneton after final proofing. That loaf is easier to score. If your loaf is loose, it is more difficult to score.
"Plus the holes in the crumb were smaller" We call that a dense loaf, usually caused by improper final shaping and not enough tension on your dough. That will limit the oven spring which gives you a dense loaf.
lock your bedroom door.😆 Vinnie should learn to stay in his place.😎 If he is really active feed him twice per day. That will keep him happy.
The Brioche dough we use for hamburger buns will make a great hoagie roll too. The shaping of that dough into a hoagie roll takes some practice but it can be done. Also you can use this sourdough recipe to make hoagie rolls. Normally you want to increase the hydration percentage up to 70/75% to create a softer crumb though.
I would recommend you listen to the entire podcast because you will learn a lot. The section oh your starter begins at the 15 minute mark and runs for about 20 minutes. Listen to the rest of the podcast after that and it might help you tighten up your final shaping too.
For the uber sourdough geek who wants to take their knowledge of their sourdough starter even further, I would highly recommend the following article:- Lactic Acid Fermentation in Sourdough - by Debra Wink
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Breadhead Thanks. I have actually listened to Chef Jacob's bread podcasts (all four of them) several times, plus watched the SD video several times, and I am grasping principles. I've also read Wink's article a couple of times. I have quite a bit of geek (engineer) in me--LOL. What really puzzled me is how the character of my starter changed from sour to not so sour in the space of a couple of days, with no other change that I can think of.
I have come up with a way to mimic SF in the high desert of AZ. I place a half gallon of ice (in a milk carton) in a cooler and swap it out every day. The temp stays around 60°F. Vinnie doesn't whine nearly as much about being fed and, as I understand it, he should produce a more sour flavor in the cooler temps. I had to mess with two different sized coolers- a smaller one dropped into the mid 50°F range. Larger cooler, more heat loss for the same amount of ice.
The lack of adequate tension in the skin of the loaf makes sense with what I experienced when the razor tore instead of cut cleanly.
Why does shaping the brioche into a sub roll instead of a boule take practice?
Thanks again for your time and advice!
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Willy ...
"I have come up with a way to mimic SF in the high desert of AZ. I place a half gallon of ice (in a milk carton) in a cooler and swap it out every day. The temp stays around 60°F. Vinnie doesn't whine nearly as much about being fed and, as I understand it, he should produce a more sour flavor in the cooler temps. I had to mess with two different sized coolers- a smaller one dropped into the mid 50°F range. Larger cooler, more heat loss for the same amount of ice."
hmmm... I think you took Chef Jacob's analogy of what makes San Francisco sourdough bread unique and very acidic to an extreme. Pay more attention to the type of flour they use. I would use your refrigerator at 36/38° to slow it down even more, which will product more acidic acid. Your cooler method it to much work... IMHO.
"What really puzzled me is how the character of my starter changed from sour to not so sour in the space of a couple of days, with no other change that I can think of."
It's all science... Lactic acid VS acidic acid. Your starter originally produced more Acidic acid and less lactic acid. Listen to the podcast again. Chef Jacob explains how that works very clearly.
Watch the video again for final shaping and tension pulls. I personally apply more tension on the tension pulls than Chef Jacob does in his video. I want my dough so TIGHT I'm worried I'm going to tear the outer skin open. Be aggressive on your tension pulls. That will give you more oven spring and a more open and airy crumb.Last edited by Breadhead; September 10, 2016, 02:06 AM.
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Club Member
- Apr 2016
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- Near Richmond VA
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Willy - there are lots of videos online on how to make different shapes with your dough. The "problem" with shaping a torpedo, (or sub roll, or batard - all are similar) is that it's a little trickier getting the shapes right, but it just takes practice. Here is a good video on shaping dough for different shapes. I suggest you go to youtube and search for shaping videos - there are a ton. You will find one - maybe more, that work for you.
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Breadhead Thanks again for your comments. I think I am doing a poor job of communicating. I do understand that cooler temps yield a more sour taste; that's why I started SF in AZ in the cooler, which, by the way, is really no extra work at all. I hope to give more advantage to the acetic acid bugs and less to the lactic acid ones. I also have Vinnie Jr. in the fridge, though I haven't done anything with him yet beyond feedings. I guess my question should have been: Have you ever had a starter change character--go from sour to "sweet"--in the space of a couple of days, with all else remaining constant--room temp storage (mid-70°F range) and constant, identical feeding schedule and ingredients?
Vinnie has been unusual I believe--perhaps I was lucky enough to "give birth" (LOL) to him during our rainy season when maybe lots of LAB and wild yeasts were present. At any rate, he never stalled and he turned sour quickly even in my relatively high temps. The one difficulty I had, which in retrospect I don't believe was a real difficulty, was passing the float test. I am now pretty certain that waiting an entire day to do the FT meant that Vinnie has given his all and decided to nap until meal time.
Thanks for the comments about the importance of tension pulls. The loaf that didn't cut well I had accidentally floured the bottom of before doing the pulls--natch it wasn't sticky enough to give a good pull.
Finally, in addition to my sincere gratitude for your help, I must also curse you and Chef Jacob (LOL). I now own a banneton--with liner--, a lame, made a visit to our local Neapolitan-style pizza place to buy flour (successfully), and just received today my copy of Reinhart's "Crust and Crumb". More to follow, no doubt. Bread is as addictive as BBQ.Last edited by Willy; September 11, 2016, 08:50 AM.
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Club Member
- Sep 2015
- 8056
- Colorado
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> Weber Genesis EP-330
> Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker with Alpha/Connect
> Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
> WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative (I'll never see it again))
> Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
> Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
> Thermoworks Smoke
> 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
> Thermoworks Thermapen One
> Thermoworks Thermapen Classic
> Thermoworks Thermopop
> Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
> Anova sous vide circulator
> Searzall torch
> BBQ Guru Rib Ring
> WÜSTHOF, Dalstrong, and Buck knives
> Paprika App on Mac and iOS
Originally posted by Willy View PostHave you ever had a starter change character--go from sour to "sweet"--in the space of a couple of days, with all else remaining constant--room temp storage (mid-70°F range) and constant, identical feeding schedule and ingredients?
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Club Member
- Sep 2015
- 8056
- Colorado
-
> Weber Genesis EP-330
> Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker with Alpha/Connect
> Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
> WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative (I'll never see it again))
> Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
> Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
> Thermoworks Smoke
> 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
> Thermoworks Thermapen One
> Thermoworks Thermapen Classic
> Thermoworks Thermopop
> Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
> Anova sous vide circulator
> Searzall torch
> BBQ Guru Rib Ring
> WÜSTHOF, Dalstrong, and Buck knives
> Paprika App on Mac and iOS
BTW, we might need to change the MBMBS acronym to something else. My initials are MBM ... and we all know what BS stands for ... ...
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