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Crutch or not to crutch....brisket inquiry....

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  • Gunsmokers
    Charter Member
    • Feb 2015
    • 81
    • West Michigan

    Crutch or not to crutch....brisket inquiry....

    Just curious to hear from those that DO and those that DON'T crutch and results you have in regards to tenderness, juiciness, and bark. Thanks.

    ~Gunsmokers~
  • Jerod Broussard
    Moderator
    • Jun 2014
    • 10029
    • East Texas
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    #2
    I don't wrap based on internal temp.

    I do wrap based on bark.

    Never had the time of wrapping affect the juiciness of the meat itself, but it can affect how much au jus will be produced in the pan/foil.

    I have crutched briskets at the stall and had them very dry in the flat. Really beyond dry.

    I have crutched at 194 internal and had them out of this world juicy as can be in the flat. I'm not talking about slicing hot fat and allowing it to run down otherwise dry meat. These were slices with an obvious "slick" on each slice.

    If wrapping kills your bark you really didn't have any to begin with.

    Comment

    • Gunsmokers
      Charter Member
      • Feb 2015
      • 81
      • West Michigan

      #3
      Originally posted by Jerod Broussard View Post
      I don't wrap based on internal temp.

      I do wrap based on bark.

      Never had the time of wrapping affect the juiciness of the meat itself, but it can affect how much au jus will be produced in the pan/foil.

      I have crutched briskets at the stall and had them very dry in the flat. Really beyond dry.

      I have crutched at 194 internal and had them out of this world juicy as can be in the flat. I'm not talking about slicing hot fat and allowing it to run down otherwise dry meat. These were slices with an obvious "slick" on each slice.

      If wrapping kills your bark you really didn't have any to begin with.
      Yeah, I have crutched at the 150° F mark the last couple times keeping it in the foil until about 195-200°F - putting it in the cooler wrapped in towels (still in foil) for two hours and then remove/slice. I get tender beef (flat), but on the dry side and the bark is mushy Would really like a crustier bark and juicier internal...Thanks Jerod.

      ~Gunsmokers~

      Comment

      • Jerod Broussard
        Moderator
        • Jun 2014
        • 10029
        • East Texas
        • Pit Barrel Cooker "Texas Brisket Edition"
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        #4
        The two best ones I've ever had been wet aged for like 40-42 days after I picked them up from the store. Since we are cooking to such a high temperature most of the moistness obviously is going to be a result of melted collagen and fat.

        I have some that don't get wrapped until they get done due to high humidity levels in my barrel.
        Last edited by Jerod Broussard; April 26, 2016, 10:30 AM.

        Comment

        • Gunsmokers
          Charter Member
          • Feb 2015
          • 81
          • West Michigan

          #5
          Ok. Will try and not wrap until done - will place the water pan below the brisket on my new Good-One Open Range to get the humidity factor going. Also, will get a USDA Prime brisket from somewhere. Appreciate the advice.

          ~Gunsmokers~

          Comment


          • Jerod Broussard
            Jerod Broussard commented
            Editing a comment
            I'd watch the bark once you get in the 180's. I don't temp until I wrap just to see how far I am from "done." With a Prime you might get bark and not be too far from done.
        • DeusDingo
          Founding Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 1158
          • Madison, WI
          • Weber Q320 grill
            Camp Chef Smoke Vault 24 Propane Smoker
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          #6
          this is such a constant post on these forums we really needs to collect all the wrapping info and make it a sticky, or pick a couple of posts (the wrapping experiment one of the users did, whether to wrap or not, what point to wrap...) and make them all stickys. it seems like once a month this kind of post pops up

          Comment

          • Gunsmokers
            Charter Member
            • Feb 2015
            • 81
            • West Michigan

            #7
            Originally posted by DeusDingo View Post
            this is such a constant post on these forums we really needs to collect all the wrapping info and make it a sticky, or pick a couple of posts (the wrapping experiment one of the users did, whether to wrap or not, what point to wrap...) and make them all stickys. it seems like once a month this kind of post pops up

            Thanks DeusDingo - I tried a search for my particular inquiry and didn't see a post (however, I am sure one exists LOL!).

            ~Gunsmokers~

            Comment


            • DeusDingo
              DeusDingo commented
              Editing a comment
              the "search" on this forum is a joke. it is terrible. you are better off just finding the forum that most applies and digging through posts
          • SoonerBQuer
            Former Member
            • Apr 2016
            • 50
            • Houston

            #8
            I figured I'd weigh in with my limited experience and maybe someone could correct or validate my interpretation of my experience. I almost always crutch and it's always juicier. I watch temps with remote temps from my mavericks so i know when my stall happens without opening the cooker. If time permits, I usually allow my stall to go for an hour or two. Then I wrap and let it stand for a couple hours after coming off the smoker. I've wrapped both as soon as I noticed the stall and after i reach 190. Wrapping as soon as I hit stall seems to produce less juicy meat, than allowing some stall and late wrapping also produces less of a juicy product, but it is tender.

            I'm speculating here... that allowing some of the stall cooking to happen allows more fat and collagen to break down without the meat finishing cooking. When i wrap too soon, the meat cooks faster and doesn't allow as much of the melting to happen or as much bark to form, before needing to be removed. Wrapping too late and I tend to loose a lot more juice since so much has already melted away. On a side note, more humid cookers don't seem to have the second issue. There is much more bark here as well.

            Comment

            • DeusDingo
              Founding Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 1158
              • Madison, WI
              • Weber Q320 grill
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              #9
              so wrapping posts that i could find in the beef forum and the pit techniques forum:

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-butcher-paper

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-butcher-paper

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...wrap-a-brisket

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...c-wrap-or-foil

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...er-end-product

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...sket-butts-etc

              https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...about-wrapping

              and i know there are more but this forum only goes back 20 pages so i can't find the post by someone where they actually did an experiment using 3 variations: foil, butcher paper, unwrapped. in addition i watched a thing on PBS where franklin did that test as well (which i think might be on youtube)

              i didn't mean to come off as a dick. i just think it would be helpful if we get a master post or find the most helpful posts about wrapping and make them sticky. i think that would help new users a lot because this is a very commonly asked question

              Comment

              • Letmebefrank
                Founding Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 54
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                #10
                I'm adding this thread which links to an Aaron Franklin video where he tests out foil, butcher paper and no crutch.

                https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-w-john-markus


                Comment

                • Gunsmokers
                  Charter Member
                  • Feb 2015
                  • 81
                  • West Michigan

                  #11
                  Originally posted by DeusDingo View Post
                  so wrapping posts that i could find in the beef forum and the pit techniques forum:

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-butcher-paper

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-butcher-paper

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...wrap-a-brisket

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...c-wrap-or-foil

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...er-end-product

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...sket-butts-etc

                  https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...about-wrapping

                  and i know there are more but this forum only goes back 20 pages so i can't find the post by someone where they actually did an experiment using 3 variations: foil, butcher paper, unwrapped. in addition i watched a thing on PBS where franklin did that test as well (which i think might be on youtube)

                  i didn't mean to come off as a dick. i just think it would be helpful if we get a master post or find the most helpful posts about wrapping and make them sticky. i think that would help new users a lot because this is a very commonly asked question
                  Thanks for doing the work - appreciate it.

                  ~Gunsmokers~

                  Comment

                  • Huskee
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                    #12
                    I'm like Jerod and firmly believe in wrapping when there's good bark. In my [comparatively limited] brisket experience I find the bark to be really good at or just above the 180F IT mark. I like to do the same with pork butts.

                    Comment

                    • Gunsmokers
                      Charter Member
                      • Feb 2015
                      • 81
                      • West Michigan

                      #13
                      Originally posted by Letmebefrank View Post
                      I'm adding this thread which links to an Aaron Franklin video where he tests out foil, butcher paper and no crutch.

                      https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-w-john-markus

                      Thanks! Never heard of him but, after watching a couple videos I like that Aaron Franklin and his stuff....

                      ~Gunsmokers~
                      Last edited by Gunsmokers; April 26, 2016, 02:20 PM.

                      Comment


                      • HorseDoctor
                        HorseDoctor commented
                        Editing a comment
                        At the risk of being struck by lightning, I have found Franklin's book & videos to be almost as educational as the AR site, especially as it pertains to brisket.
                    • Fine Swine
                      Former Member
                      • Apr 2015
                      • 192
                      • Davidsonville, MD

                      #14
                      Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Never used the butcher paper though... Might have to try that next? Like others have said, I am looking at the bark as well as the time that I have left? Crutch with foil if I am pressed for time. Then into the cambro...

                      Comment

                      • Breadhead
                        Banned Former Member
                        • Jul 2014
                        • 0

                        #15
                        I've never wrapped a brisket or a pork butt until it reaches my desired temp or is probe soft, ever.😎

                        I do wrap them coming off the smoker and try to cambro them 2 to 4 hours.

                        I use a BGE without a water pan and always cook at 225°.

                        Comment

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