Even though I have no experience with them I do like 2 of your choices, the Engelbrecht and the LSG. I used to have a desire for an M1, but the price has been raised to $5000. You can see a receipt here showing not that long ago it was $2325: https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...-fs-mgrills-m1. I personally don't see the value for the new price.
There is a 2 grill combo that comes in well under your cap, lets you play with fire, but also lets you have a little less hands on when you have kids. You could go with a KBQ C-60 and a Kamado (I'm partial to the Weber Kamado). Both have pretty small footprints on the patio too.
I would also echo everyone else's thoughts around the detail and thought you have put into this post. It is very appreciated, and definitely gives us a lot of help so we can best offer our own opinions. For the thermometer recommendations, I would second the FireBoard recommendation ( https://www.fireboard.com/ ) .
The reason why everyone is also suggesting a variety of cookers is yes, they all have their own experiences and biases, but it is the cook that creates the BBQ, not the smoker. You can make some amazing BBQ on a $170 kettle, and the Weber Smokey Mountains have won many, many BBQ competitions. So don't expect the smoker to magically let you create a magnificent brisket if you still need to learn the skills needed, and you might actually have more of a learning curve with some of these beasts than a simple Slow & Sear kettle ( https://snsgrills.com/collections/kettle-grills ).
Now normally, I'd recommend other smokers, but given the research you've done, I assume you have already considered the standard kettles, kamados etc. and decided on these three for very specific needs.
For your actual recommendation, I'd recommend the LSG.
Why? For all the experiences I've read about here with the LSG, there's always little extra touches that make the smoker easier to handle for the cook, and the owners always seem ready to help customize it to the customer's needs. The learning curve seems minimal, and everything just works.
If you are already concerned about space on the Engelbrecht, I can't say that's going to work out for you as space is impossible to fix once you've committed. Plus, in general with our members who have made similar purchases and have done similar amounts of research, we generally have far more LSG owners here than Engelbrecht and M1, suggesting that the LSG really tends to work for a wide variety of needs.
For the M1, I would recommend reading Tuckmonster 's experiences, and decide if that's something you want to pursue. And holy cow, that's a huge recent price jump that makes it much less of a value compared to the LSG.
Well said sir! And when the time comes, I also would recommend the SnS kettle (slightly) over the Weber, with one caveat. The SnS will not accommodate a rotisserie…..yet. SnS will be coming out with their own rotisserie in early 22, according to reports from SnS. The Weber 22†will accommodate their own rotisserie, as well as one from Cajun Bandit, right now.
Last edited by Panhead John; November 8, 2021, 10:44 AM.
If not cooking outdoors, I am cooking on the stovetop with my 14" carbon steel wok, 12" CI skillet, or in the oven with my two Lodge CI pizza pans, or two dutch ovens. I've also got a nifty Lodge carbon steel grill pan that rocks for veggies outdoors.
I cannot comment from personal experience on any of your 3 cookers, but personally like the idea of the LSG option best. To me, it seems most flexible of the bunch.
I've been cooking on an offset with a charcoal tray option for 30 years, and for many years it was my only grill/smoker. I then got a Weber Genesis 2 burner, and found it very convenient for quick cooks - think weeknight meals, or burgers for just the family, when I didn't want to kill a 20 pound bag of charcoal.
I've had quite a few grills and smokers over the decades, and the one thing I will throw out there is that you do need to consider having something for quick impromptu cooks. The LSG and others will take some time to setup. Heck - my SNS Kamado has been going for an hour since I lit the starter cube and its just now creeping up on 225F (I put the butt on at 150F smoker temp). My offset as a grill required a minimum of two chimneys of charcoal and 25-30 minutes to be ready to grill, similar amount to be ready to start smoking with the fire in the firebox. I've got a propane Weber Genesis II and Camp Chef flat top (griddle) that are ready to cook on in about 10 minutes. Very convenient. Since getting the griddle however, I find that I seldom use the conventional gas grill. If I were going to build a outdoor kitchen in a new house, and had to limit my cookers, I would go for something that burned charcoal and wood, and a built in flat top rather than a conventional gas grill.
Coming from where you are, I fully agree with you thought that a pellet cooker is just not going to put out the level of smoke you are used to. Stay with wood or charcoal+wood.
I guess I’ll be "that guy", and say I think it’s way too early in your BBQ journey to spend $5k, $6k, or even $2k, unless you’ve done a whole bunch of grilling/smoking on some piece of equipment you haven’t mentioned. I’d start with a kettle and Slow n Sear, which will do most everything you want, and used Weber kettles are generally available around here for $50-75. Used 26" kettles are very rare, so if you’re dead set on having enough capacity for a bunch of wings get a new 26" Weber for $370 and add the Slow n Sear (regular or XL). For that second option you’d be in for less than $600 before tax.
With a little luck you might find a used Pit Barrel Cooker for a couple hundred dollars. They make great food and have lots of capacity for a small footprint.
Start slow and small, enjoy the journey, and save that $6k for when you’re living in your dream home. Good luck!
… And third, I’m 61 and I’ve had two long time hobbies that I thought I’d do forever, but ultimately moved away from. So although it sounds like she’s put lots and lots of thought into her decision, we often don’t know what the future holds for us.
All that being said, I’ll be here to congratulate her no matter she decides, as I know everyone will.
One more thought. The downside on a regret decision is relatively low. Assuming good condition, she could probably sell any of these smokers for 50%-75% of her cost which isn’t the end of the world.
For comparison, I play pool and used tables are more like 10%-20% of new practically overnight.
I'm in the kettle camp whether it be Weber or SnS. With the modifications and accessories available you can (to me) have the perfect cooker. Small foot print and can accommodate the foods you are looking to cook. I did a "how to" for modifying a Weber kettle to be truly set and forget here. (The SnS kettle already has the fan port as well as the Weber Kamado) Even if you didn't want to add thermostatic control because you like to tend a fire, there are tons of accessories for all kinds of cooking. Smoking, roasting, searing etc. You mentioned wings. A kettle and Vortex turns out some of the best wings I have ever had. There is nothing a kettle cannot do and do well in my opinion.
Rod is correct about the Vortex and it’s ability to turn out some of the best wings you can do, on a kettle. Here’s a pic of the Vortex if you’re not familiar.
SC Grillmore I feel your pain. Since I last posted, I have accumulated a couple more pits to go with the LSG Adjustable and the PBC. First I got a Weber Summit Kamado because I enjoyed cooking on a Kamado Joe Classic II, but with the freak winds generated by Arizona thunderstorms, I didn't want to take the chance of toppling ceramic, hence the Weber. This is a very good pit, and I get good food off it. It's versatile, but it doesn't speak to me. It just has no soul.
Then I opted for a Hunsaker Vortex Drum Smoker which has plenty of soul and rock steady temperature control. I never had any of the temp control problems that Max Good seemed to have in his review of the Hunsaker. It's a very well thought-out drum smoker and puts out wonderful smoked product.
That said, none of the new acquisitions comes close to the LSG Adjustable. It's like having an old reliable dog that knows exactly what you want to do. This past year I finally got up enough nerve to use the Adjustable as a stick burner. I bought the wonderful LSG Fire Management Basket which makes running a fire easy even for a newbie like me. You asked about split size. Anything from 8 to 12 inches works perfectly although if you don't mind overhanging the basket, you can go longer. Once the fire is lit, a new split every 75 minutes or so will keep it going. I usually use the Adjustable in this mode about once a month. The rest of the time, it's 2-zone cooking which the Adjustable is a natural at, or direct grilling with the adjustable charcoal grate which gives Santa Maria-like temp control. One of my favorite things about the Adjustable is that each firebox has a removable ash pan. All of the ash ends up in the pan. I've never had to vacuum the fireboxes or anything on the pit for that matter.
As far as add-ons, I got the aforementioned Fire Management Basket, the stainless side table, the side-mounted pull handle, 8" wheels, the charcoal basket for longer cooks, and a cover which I have yet to use because I cook on the pit so much. I also asked Chris to make two ports, one in each firebox, for a temp control fan.
I you decide on the LSG Adjustable, take heed of the measurements and make sure you have the room to move it where you want it. It's very heavy. We have the typical Arizona gravel side yards and no way could we push the pit through the gravel even with 8" wheels, so we took it through the house and made it through the patio sliding glass door with 1/2" to spare.
As far as Lonestar Grillz is concerned, I think very highly of Chris Goodyear and the integrity that he puts into his pits, so much so, that I've got the LSG pellet burner coming to our home in December or January. That will absolutely be my last pit.
Last edited by AZ Fogey; November 8, 2021, 11:26 AM.
Well AZ Fogey, IMO you have said it better and in much more detail than my post above. I have wondered about the Fire Management Basket and will be ordering one in a few minutes. Like you, I really like my LSG Adjustable. Just my 2 cents.
> Weber Genesis EP-330
> Grilla Grills Original Grilla (OG) pellet smoker with Alpha/Connect
> Grilla Grills Pellet Pizza Oven
> Pit Barrel Cooker (gone to a new home)
> WeberQ 2000 (on "loan" to a relative (I'll never see it again))
> Old Smokey Electric (for chickens mostly - when it's too nasty out
to fiddle with a more capable cooker)
> Luhr Jensen Little Chief Electric - Top Loader circa 1990 (smoked fish & jerky)
> Thermoworks Smoke
> 3 Thermoworks Chef Alarms
> Thermoworks Thermapen One
> Thermoworks Thermapen Classic
> Thermoworks Thermopop
> Thermoworks Square DOT
> Thermoworks IR-GUN-S
> Joule Turbo Sous Vide Circulator
> Searzall torch
> BBQ Guru Rib Ring
> WÜSTHOF, Dalstrong, and Buck knives
> Paprika App on Mac and iOS
I'm going to break with the pack (and with tradition in the Pit) and not muddy the water by recommending anything in particular. It sounds like you've done your homework and are starting to zero in on a solution (or set of solutions) that will optimally suit your particular needs.
That said, I will suggest that you heed the already-mentioned and very good advice to realize that no single grill, smoker, or gadget is likely to do everything perfectly for you ... so you might want to leave room in your yard and in your budget for at least a couple of fairly specialized pieces of equipment (and, of course, the myriad acce$$ories that you'll find you simply cannot live without ... see "MCS" ... ).
As far as acronyms here in the Pit go, the first that you'll need to know is "MCS". It's explained somewhere on the page to which Panhead John provided this link in his earlier post.
Good luck ... and have lots of fun ... with your search for the Ultimate(ish) Solution!
If not cooking outdoors, I am cooking on the stovetop with my 14" carbon steel wok, 12" CI skillet, or in the oven with my two Lodge CI pizza pans, or two dutch ovens. I've also got a nifty Lodge carbon steel grill pan that rocks for veggies outdoors.
You mention the lack of a rotisserie option with the Lone Star. I've got rotisseries for two of my grills, and while I get nice results with the Weber Kettle rotisserie (and disappointing results with the Weber Genesis II rotisserie), I just want to say that while rotisserie is a cool way to cook, and can turn out a great chicken or turkey, I don't think you should get too hung up on the presence or lack of a rotisserie option on any of the 3 cookers you are looking at.
I've done turkeys and chickens whole on my offset smoker, or spatchcocked on the offset or in a kettle using the Slow 'N Sear. I've done them on the rotisserie as well on gas and charcoal grills. Rotisserie results are so similar to the others in the final product that I would be hard pressed to say that the rotisserie chicken or turkey is substantially better than the spatchcocked birds I smoked at the same temperature. MAYBE the skin was a little crisper is the main difference. And then you also have to deal with the problem that you cannot stick a temperature probe in the meat and leave it while it spins unless its wireless like the Meater. I find myself having to turn the motor off and check with my Thermapen as things get close to being done, several times. My spatchcocked birds I can leave the lid closed until the alarm goes off and know they are done perfectly.
Anyway, in several years of having a rotisserie, I've used it about a half dozen times, once on the gas grill, and 5-6 times on the kettle. There are just so many other ways to also get good results that are more hands off. Look at the overall cooker, and I would consider the rotisserie as one of the last factors.
I have a LSG offset and the food it turns out is amazing. It is very versatile and has some nice accessories to pretty much do what you want it to do. The fire management basket with gas assist make it a breeze to get it lit up and going. I can get it to 250 degrees internal in about 30 - 45 minutes (about the same as my Weber Summit kamado). While certainly not a Santa Maria style grill, there are adjustable shelves in the fire box to accommodate searing or live fire cooking as well as an option for a fire grate that fits in the cooking chamber. There is also a flattop grill under the lid of the fire box for frying and searing. Fire management is pretty much a continuous operation while cooking with wood, but that's part of the charm with an offset. There is an optional "S" shaped charcoal basket that can operate as a "set-and-forget" slow burner, but I haven't pulled the trigger on that yet. The LSG pretty expensive, including $600 in shipping to Mt Shasta, but, it is my favorite cooker, when I have the time to tend it. As mentioned, the adjustable grill seems to do all of these functions as well, and while it was also very high on my list, I have no experience with one.
I am fortunate to have the space for several cookers and use them all regularly. I do agree with the advice of getting a kettle or small gasser for quick, school-night cooks. While not a small kettle by any means, I use the WSCG (Weber Summit Charcoal Grill) the most of all. It is convenient and highly versatile while putting out some very good food.
Good luck with your adventure, I don't think there's a "wrong" choice in any of your options. My deciding factor came down to mostly aesthetics. To me, the LSG is a piece of highly functional art that I chose for a specific location on my deck. In that it overachieves!
Last edited by CaptainMike; November 8, 2021, 11:54 AM.
I’m not going to recommend that you get any of your three finalists, the Hasty Bake, or any other single cooker. I think you are bound to be disappointed with your choice if you go with one machine to do it all. The cooker that is best at everything hasn’t been invented yet.
Your budget is large enough to afford a top flight grill with a rotisserie option and a top flight smoker.
This was my first thought. Rather than trying to find one thing that does many different things well, you can afford to buy 2-3 things each of which does it's own thing really well and that's what I'd do.
I think Sid P's point is worth considering too - I'd worry less about 'will this last a lifetime" and more "well this let me do what I want and last long enough".
Last edited by rickgregory; November 8, 2021, 11:40 AM.
OK I will be the first Braten 1000 owner to chime in here -
It does seem to tick most of your boxes including rotisserie option.. And being able to run both offset and Santa Maria is a lot of fun.
Space-wise, I will note that in offset mode you can also put a pan on top of the firebox to sear.. But your need for wings makes me wonder if there's a reasonable way to add a second level above the main grate when cooking offset. If anybody has experience or suggestion please chime in!
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I think it could hold a few butts easily for a party but wings take a lot of surface area.
I currently get a lot of versatility using with this plus a Camp Chef Woodwind - I can either settle in to split logs and tend a fire, or fully set-and-forget if needed. Or use both at once for a party. Or use the Sear Box on the Woodwind to grill a few burgers in 10 mins start to finish.
BUT with that said..
Its offset mode is probably not as good as a serious dedicated offset smoker.
For Santa Maria, some dedicated units include braseros which would be handy.
The Woodwind sear box is pretty small.
So as many are saying, there are tradeoffs in trying to do multi function.. But so far I love my Braten!
Grill/Smoke/Roast = SnS Grills Kettle + SnS Deluxe Insert & Drip n' Griddle
Grill/Smoke/Roast = Hasty-Bake Gourmet Dual Finish with HB rotisserie and Grill Grates
Smoke = Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Pizza = Blackstone Propane Pizza Oven (Stacy's, but she let's me use it sometimes)
Indoor Cooking = LG Studio 30" gas range
Camp Cooking = Coleman 2 burner white gas stove
Thermometer = FireBoard FBX2 with 2 ambient and 6 meat probes
Thermapen Mk IV = Light blue
Thermapen Mk IV = Black
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Auber 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 1 fan)
PID Controller = Fireboard Drive + Fireboard 20 CFM Fan (FB gen 2 fan)
Knives
Wusthof Classic Ikon set: 9" carving knive, 2X 8" Chef's Knife, 7" Santoku and three utility knives
Kamikoto Kuro set: 7" Santoku, 6.5" Nakiri, 5" Utility
Amazing Ribs Brazilian Steak knife set
Favorite wine = whatever is currently in the wine rack
Favorite beer = Sam Adams Boston Lager or Shiner Bock
Favorite whisky = Lagavulin Distiller's Edition 16 year old single malt
Best Cookbooks - Meathead's "The Science of Great Barbecue and Grilling", Chris Lilly's "Big Bob Gibson's BBQ Book", Aaron Franklin's "Franklin BBQ", Raichlen’s “Brisket Chronicles”
Current MCBS - Momofuku
Current fanboy cookbook - "Chasing Smoke: Cooking Over Fire Around the Levant"
I am moving more and more back to having multiple cookers. Two big reasons, one of which several have noted. That reason is that you can get 2-3 cookers that do 1 or 2 things really well. The other one, I have discovered in the process of adding a SnS Kettle to the backyard: Fun! The joy and fun of learning and using multiple BBQ's for different things at different times.
Honestly, you may want to do the same. If you are going to stay on the single cooker road, I would put the LSG Adjustable and the AZ Outfitters rigs at the top of the list. I love the Engelbrecht, but I don't think it would be as good a choice for one grill to rule them all.
I have the Meadow Creek bbq42 with the optional 10" high lid.and grate. It is a monster. Doesn't look pretty but I use it the most of my cookers. I use it with briquettes, lump and wood. With the optional lid and grate you can cook about anything on it. Best BBQ investment to date. It is ca[able of cooking 40LBS of chicken at a time Also referred to as a chicken fliper.
I use it with my fireboard thermometer and fan. Once you get used to the setup you can keep the heat constant
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