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**smokin fool** · January 21, 2023, 08:31 AM

If y'all remember I went out and brought fake meat burgers and sausages one day and gave em a shot then published my thoughts on here.
In a nutshell the burgers were actually quite passable, the sausages not so much, terrible actually.
Would I buy them again no....well, maybe if theres a zombie apocalypse and theres nothing left on the shelf.
Will I rail against people that buy them no, but I would say that I don't think even Vegans would buy fake meat like this.
In my small but determined mind there is a huge difference between Veganism and fake meatism.

**Bruceski44** · January 21, 2023, 05:45 PM

If fake meat was just a personal choice, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But you KNOW the fakers want to change everyone's behavior to suit their skewed perspective. Don't believe me? This, from Beyond Meat's website: "By shifting from animal to plant-based meat, we can positively affect the planet, the environment, the climate and even ourselves. After all, the positive choices we make every day – no matter how small – can have a great impact on our world." So my meat-eating is threatening their well-being. They're coming for your meat! And they are not done, even if the market for fake meat collapses. They will regroup, reorganize, maybe redesign, but never retreat and never relent.

**WillTravelForFood** · January 22, 2023, 07:45 AM

Love that the article says this, with "bleeds" in quotes

veggie burgers that “bleed” like real beef

Its like they hadn't read Meatheads article about how juice is not blood, and only helps perpetuate the concept

Still, the article supports many of the comments shared here, that plant based meats are a super niche product thats not for everybody.. despite the marketing blitzes that suggest its selling better than it actual is.

**BBQandLove** · January 22, 2023, 08:03 AM

Underlying the fake meat push is a clearly articulated, nefarious agenda that most of us find reprehensible. That’s why many of us rejoice at their downfall. Absent that agenda, I couldn’t care less.

**randy.56** · January 22, 2023, 08:31 AM

That picture, so discus ting, I'm doin wings and de boned thigh's today. Pass the meat please.

**SheilaAnn** · January 22, 2023, 07:06 PM

DAD!!! The boys are fighting!

**Huskee** · January 22, 2023, 07:22 PM

We don't have to agree, of course, since we all have a take on it...but let's just make sure we express our points and counterpoints respectfully and not let this get heated. Thank you everyone.

**Meathead** · January 23, 2023, 08:52 AM

From the book I am writing now:

Some thoughts on faux meat

Of all the meat we eat, beef is the toughest on the environment. That impact can be lessened with improved husbandry practices. But the fact remains, in a world with more and more people, as prosperity spreads, demand for meat will continue to grow to the point where we cannot sustain it. So it makes sense that scientists are looking for ways to get us beefy pleasure wt less cost to the environment.

In recent years there have been a number of companies making meat substitutes and they have even found their way onto menus of such meatcentric restaurants and Burger King. I have tasted them and if served on a spongy bun with lettuce tomato, ketchup, and pickles, they taste similar to a real beef burger. But extract an Impossible patty, wash it and taste it alongside a Whopper patty and there is no comparison. So we are still a long way away from a taste standpoint.

Let’s look at their ingredients. They are changing as the scientists perfect their recipes, but at the time I am writing this, the Impossible Burger contains: Water, soy protein concentrate, sunflower oil, coconut oil, natural flavors, methylcellulose, cultured dextrose, food starch modified, yeast extract, soy leghemoglobin, salt, xixed tocopherols (antioxidant), L-tryptophan, soy protein isolate. Vitamins and Minerals: Zinc gluconate, niacin, thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin B12.

The methods by which these ingredients are processed are proprietary of course, but it is safe to say that it is among the most highly ultra-processed foods in your grocery store right up there with Twinkies and Cheetos (both of which taste better than faux meat).
When the analysts look at the final product, they conclude that they are close to beef in nutrition. When the analysts look at the costs of the inputs, including water and electricity in the processing, they conclude that Impossible Burgers are much less of a burden on the environment than factory farmed cattle.

But it is still a lot of effort. It seems to me that if you want to eat more vegetables, then eat more vegetables.
Coming on the horizon I see lab grown meat using actual animal cells. Test have proven it can be done. Can it be done economically and what is the quality of the final product? Stay tuned.

**Meathead** · January 23, 2023, 08:55 AM

BTW, I do not believe the faux meat industry is near collapse. I just think that everyone who wanted to has tried it and moved on. As the quality improves and real meat prices increase, faux meat will move more mainstream.

**Meathead** · January 23, 2023, 12:59 PM

To put a fine point on it: Nobody is going to ban beef. That would be impossible. Nobody is going to ban grills and smokers (although some communities have tried). Nobody is going to force you to trash your gas stove. Let's maintain a grip on reality.

But faux meat will continue to slowly grow and if that is what people want, why not? Who knows, maybe someday it will be as popular as tofu. And if you like tofu, have at it. There is no boogie man here.

**Murdy** · January 23, 2023, 02:02 PM

Well, I guess I should have sold high, but it looks like I'll be holding my Tattooed Chef stock for a while.

**Attjack** · January 23, 2023, 02:47 PM

Enough about plant-based "meat" let's talk about this.

**Meathead** · January 23, 2023, 03:52 PM

Most foods we eat are “processed” or altered from their raw “natural” state. Put salt on a steak and grill it. You are adding a chemical, NaCl, and you are processing it by pummeling it with energy drastically altering the chemistry and creating thousands of new chemicals and making it more tender and juicy while also unlocking nutrition. Cooking is a pretty darn drastic processing. But it’s good!

In every other endeavor, science, creativity, and innovation are revered. Why not food? How did we come to the point that the intersection of science and food is to be shunned? To be sure, some additives may not be good for us but many may, in fact, be beneficial. We need to learn which is which. Some salt, some sugar, some fat makes food taste better and that is great if it encourages your kids to eat their veggies. But too much of them can be unhealthy. We need to understand nuance.

You say you want to avoid buying processed food. Flour is a processed food, so is sugar, vinegar, yogurt, cheese, butter, ketchup, anything in a jar or a can, even salt is processed. Can we talk about bread? Homemade bread is made from flour, yeast, and water, all of which are heavily processed, and commercial bread can have a bunch more additives. Some processes extend shelf life and kill pathogens making food safer and capable of shipping to distant impoverished nations. Think tomato sauce and chopped tomatoes. Some processed foods make food preparation faster and easier and more convenient without sacrificing nutrition. Think rotisserie chicken. And please don’t ask me how they make that vegetarian darling, tofu.

Many animals process foods for us. Cows eat grass and expel milk, urine, fecal matter, and gases. Before pasteurization was invented milk-borne illnesses, such as tuberculosis, typhoid fever, diphtheria, salmonella killed millions of people a year. But humans can process milk to make it safe by heating it to a precise temperature for a precise time.

Processing foods may degrade nutrients you say. But they may also release or condense nutrients. Processed foods are bad for your health, you say. Not necessarily. Some processes add nutrients. Salt with iodine added is often our only source of this essential nutrient. Iodine deficiencies once were common causing stillbirths, miscarriages, and reducing IQ and cognitive development. Pregnant women benefit from folate that the Food and Drug Administration mandates in enriched grain products. The vitamin D added to milk helps us, especially in winter when we don’t get much sun.

Lately a new term has appeared meant to differentiate between good and bad processing: Ultra-processed. It is generally being used to describe food products with a low nutritional quality and high energy density due to processing. Looking at you, potato chips. But it can also be applied to wine which some research says has heart benefits. The new vegetable-based meat substitutes are the most ultra-processed foods in the world.

The issue isn’t processed or not, but what has the processing done to the food? The idea that eating processed foods is bad for us is absurd unless you specify what the process is and what part of the process is bad for us.

But a key question is, just how risky are they? According to Washington Post columnist Tamar Haspel’s analysis of a study in the medical journal BMJ “People who eat a lot of processed food are different from people who don’t. So, yes, they weigh more and are 57% more likely to die of heart disease, but they’re also 69% more likely to die in an accident, so we can’t take causality to the bank here.”

Another key question is, can ultra-processed foods be good? With continued population growth, the food industry must find ways to deliver nutrition with less environmental damage. Ultra-processing has ultra-promise.

Natural foods. We are told to seek “natural” products. In the US, the term is loosely defined. This means that manufacturers can call almost anything they want “natural”. Manufacturers try to dupe consumers who erroneously think the term is a sign of purity, pesticide free, additive free, or chemical free. “Natural” foods can legally have pesticide residue and chemical additives.
We are told wine is a natural product. Grapes are grown on meticulously bred vines, pruned, trained, and sprayed carefully. They are picked at optimum sugar acid balance. Cultured yeast is added as well as sulfur dioxide. The juice is fermented in a chilled stainless steel tank, allowing alcohol to form, then filtered, and aged in wooden barrels whose staves contribute chemicals to the brew. How on earth is this a natural process?

The word has no meaning. It is strictly a marketing term. When I see it I run because I know some marketing genius is trying to seduce me with BS.

Classification of foods according to degree of processing

This is the food classification called Nova that scientists use to categorize foods according to the extent and purpose of food processing, rather than in terms of nutrients. The list is not comprehensive.

Unprocessed or minimally processed foods. Fruit, vegetables, legumes, milk (whole, 2%, and skim), fermented milk as yogurt, eggs, meats, poultry, seafood, rice, pasta, natural juice, coffee, and water.

Processed culinary ingredients. Salt, sugar, honey, vegetable oils, butter, and lard.

Processed foods. Condensed milk, cream, cheeses, canned and bottled fruit, breads, beer, hamburger, and wine.

Ultra-processed foods. Custards, pudding, ice cream, cured and processed meats (bacon, ham, chorizo, salami, mortadella, sausage, pate), potato chips, breakfast cereals, margarine, cookies, muffins, doughnuts, croissants or other non-handmade pastries, cakes, churros, chocolates and candies, nougat, marzipan, carbonated drinks, artificially sugared beverages, fruit drinks, milkshakes, instant soups, croquettes, mayonnaise, and distilled alcoholic drinks.

**yakima** · January 23, 2023, 06:00 PM

An aspect rarely discussed is the actual process of raising beef. My great grandparents homesteaded in central Nebraska in 1883. Right on the border between the Sandhills and what is now irrigated farmland. The family raises corn, soybeans, cows, and has a feedlot. Yearlings are grain finished. A fair amount of vertical integration.

Due to the proximity of resources, little transportation expense is involved. Farming takes much more labor and fuel than ranching. A cow or yearling does not need a combine to harvest the grass. The grass is native, has never been disturbed, seeded, or fertilized. Much of the western half of Nebraska is the finest cattle country in the world. A cow on her own is environmentally friendly. No need for multiple mechanical trips disking, seeding, fertilizing, harvesting.

Whether you want grass or grain finished is your choice. The market will respond. In fifty years the center pivots may be raising hemp. But those Sandhills will still be raising livestock.

**yakima** · January 23, 2023, 06:45 PM

My main beef with the nutritionists is that ya gotta eat yer vegetables. This is wrong, based on simple logic and reasoning. A steer eats vegetables, processing them into beef. Beef thereby becomes what may be an ultra-processed food.

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