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Italian beef sandwiches questions

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  • Mosca
    Charter Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 3780
    • PA
    • Large Big Green Egg, Weber Performer Deluxe, Weber Smokey Joe Silver, Maverick 732, DigiQ, and too much other stuff to mention.

    Italian beef sandwiches questions

    I’m having trouble asking this in Disqus at the bottom of the articles, for some reason it doesn’t log me in, and when it does log me in the formatting is screwed up; there is no “post” button. I’m sure it’s an iPad thing.

    The suggestion for Italian beef sandwiches came through AR’s Facebook feed, and I’ve thought about making them for a while. My questions arise from googling “Italian beef sandwiches”.

    1) There are some variations that call for slow cooking the roast, then shredding it. If I don’t have a slicer, and may have trouble slicing the beef thin enough, is this a viable option?

    2) This follows from if the answer to 1 is “yes”. Since anything that is slow cooked can be pressure cooked, wouldn’t it be possible to pressure cook the roast, then shred it?

    I’m going to tag Meathead , only because I meant to ask it on the recipe page.
  • Meathead
    Administrator
    • May 2014
    • 1449
    • Chicago area
    • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
      Meathead

    #2
    Disqus is a diffefrnt software platform than vBulletin which runs the Pitmaster Club, so your PMC user name and pw don't work with Disqus unless you created the same UN and PW there. Sorry for the inconvenience. But you're The One ANd Only Mosca so we will help you on any platform! I am a Long Time Chicagoan and I have never seen it shredded and I have no idea how you would shred the stuff since it is pretty firm. My advice would be to slice it as thin s you can by hand. That should be good enough. I suppose you could pressure cook it, I have never tried. But I think you will get a pretty good version of the real thing by simply trying to slice it as thin as you can. Play some gentle classic music in the background, down a shot of a good bourbon, sharpen your best blade, take a deep breath and slice. Just try not to eat all the slices.

    Comment


    • Mosca
      Mosca commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks! It’s actually a timing thing. I want to make it for dinner tomorrow, but 1-4pm is blocked off because I have to visit my Dad in the nursing home (to watch the game). So, if I slice, the first part has to be done tonight or tomorrow morning; if I slow cook, it can be done tomorrow morning; if I pressure cook, it can be done tomorrow afternoon.

      So what I’ll do is, roast the meat tonight, and then do all the slicing and assembly tomorrow.

    • Mosca
      Mosca commented
      Editing a comment
      And, I have like 6 different Disqus passwords stored in LastPass, and none of them connected. Sheesh.
  • mountainsmoker
    Banned Former Member
    • Jun 2019
    • 1815
    • Bryson City, NC

    #3
    Mosca several of my recipes call for shredding the beef with a fork, not slicing. And yes pressure cooking with the Italian seasonings would work. Although slow cooking is the seemingly preferred method.

    But always, Italian seasonings, cooking and shredding will work. No matter how it is done.

    Here is one of the recipes. https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/16...or-sandwiches/
    Last edited by mountainsmoker; September 14, 2019, 10:25 AM. Reason: Added recipe

    Comment


    • Mosca
      Mosca commented
      Editing a comment
      I think it will work, too. That is one of the recipes I saw! But there will be a texture difference. I’ll try the slicing, because of the rule of doing it as close as possible to the original when doing it the first time.

    • Meathead
      Meathead commented
      Editing a comment
      I caution against recipes on AllRecipes and sites like that. Most are amateur home cooks and there are often ambiguities, missing ingredients, and food safety errors. One is ALWAYS ALWAYS best served using recipes written by professionals. Read this https://amazingribs.com/ruminations/...urmet-magazine

    • mountainsmoker
      mountainsmoker commented
      Editing a comment
      Sure Meathead you have to pick and choose your recipes just like you do on your list that include home chef bloggers and one magazine made up of home chef recipes "Taste of Home". Bloggers do not always do not always include all of the ingredients or instructions nor does Taste of Home.
  • Mosca
    Charter Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 3780
    • PA
    • Large Big Green Egg, Weber Performer Deluxe, Weber Smokey Joe Silver, Maverick 732, DigiQ, and too much other stuff to mention.

    #4
    Also, this guy has a great video on how to put a combo together. (I’m making combos because, why the hell not.)

    https://www.saltedtv.com/recipes/how...f-joe-zucchero

    Comment


    • mountainsmoker
      mountainsmoker commented
      Editing a comment
      Sounds good guy!
  • Meathead
    Administrator
    • May 2014
    • 1449
    • Chicago area
    • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
      Meathead

    #5
    You can actually cook, slice, and make the gravy today. Toss it in the fridge. All you need to do tomorrow is warm the juice and throw in the meat. It warms almost instantly in the juice. Many restaurants do it this way.

    Comment


    • Mosca
      Mosca commented
      Editing a comment
      I work until 5 (glad to be back at work after having been off for 2 months), the meat won’t be done until like 10 or 11 tonight. I still have to buy it! I figure to let it in the fridge to make the slicing easier.

    • JoeSousa
      JoeSousa commented
      Editing a comment
      I believe Kenji has an Italian beef recipe that uses this method. He suggests roast beef from the grocery store deli for his but heats up the gravy and heats up the meat in that rather than heating the meat itself.
  • Mosca
    Charter Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 3780
    • PA
    • Large Big Green Egg, Weber Performer Deluxe, Weber Smokey Joe Silver, Maverick 732, DigiQ, and too much other stuff to mention.

    #6
    Okay, the sirloin roast is in the oven, got about 90 minutes or so to go. A couple observations:

    1) I used Better Than Bullion because... well.

    2) For a 3lb roast I’d up that rub mix by about half. That’s just an observation right now: more basil and oregano, IMO. But, more can be added to the broth later.

    Wegman's was flat out of hoagie (sub) rolls. I got a couple baguettes instead. Those are better the same day, but they’re still really good.

    Comment

    • Mosca
      Charter Member
      • Oct 2014
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      #7
      At 325* the roast was done in 80 minutes. I’m not worried about it getting done so fast, it’s going to get grain-sliced and soaked anyhow. I’m glad I didn’t salt it, the broth is pretty salty. I might be able to slice this tonight, after all.

      Comment

      • Mosca
        Charter Member
        • Oct 2014
        • 3780
        • PA
        • Large Big Green Egg, Weber Performer Deluxe, Weber Smokey Joe Silver, Maverick 732, DigiQ, and too much other stuff to mention.

        #8
        Well, I got it sliced nice and thin. A really sharp slicing knife helps, a lot. The garlic and onion powder are about right, the pepper is a bit strong, and it definitely needs more oregano and basil. That’s for me, anyhow. But this is really good. Like, excellent, and easy.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	4EFA579D-6CF8-45F5-81FB-37E99F3987D2.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	2.27 MB ID:	743665
        Last edited by Mosca; September 14, 2019, 08:35 PM.

        Comment


        • binarypaladin
          binarypaladin commented
          Editing a comment
          Same knife I have. I think it’s time to make this. And some hoagie rolls.

        • Mosca
          Mosca commented
          Editing a comment
          I was concerned about the slicing, because I was thinking brisket. But this cut holds together like eye of rib roast. It was pretty easy to get just above a shave.

        • troymeister
          troymeister commented
          Editing a comment
          A thing of beauty!! Nicely done!
      • binarypaladin
        Club Member
        • May 2017
        • 279
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        #9
        Anyone have a good hoagie roll recipe? Preferably something with an overnight ferment.

        Comment

        • new2smoking
          Club Member
          • Aug 2018
          • 203
          • Seattle, WA

          #10
          Mosca Your cook looks good, and it's done! I'm also from Chicago, and while I don't have the bona fides of Meathead, my mother made Italian beef, and I ate it frequently, learned to make it, and grew up as one of the few Jewish kids in an Italian Catholic suburb (yes, in the 60s Chicago suburbs had ethnic identities.)
          I refer you to two chains of posts: ​​
          ​​​​​https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...ing-of-the-250
          This is from PBCDad, and documents an amazing Italian beef cook for 250 people.

          ​​​​​​​I had responded to PBCDad earlier when he first asked for help:
          https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...h-italian-beef

          There are a few points I would make.

          1. RE: bread. It needs to be a high protein/gluten bread. Wonder Bread hoagies turn into paste as the flour melts with the Italian beef gravy. In Chicago we used Gonella (?sp) Italian bread, which was similar to a French baguette. Ciabatta rolls work well.

          2. The meat needs to be thoroughly browned before it is cooked in the water/oregano/sauteed garlic/red pepper flakes/salt/black pepper broth. This is pretty time consuming, but produces the wonderful umami and maillard reaction flavors. Without that, you're making boiled beef.

          3. Typically, you pull the roast from the broth before it reaches the pull apart, crumble stage. This is what allows it to be thin sliced without crumbling. Then you add it back to the broth. As Meathead said, you can make this days in advance. I have sliced and frozen the meat and broth separately, then recombined by heating the broth and adding the meat. I have a cheap Braun slicer, and found it so frustrating that I have turned to thin hand slicing. The slices are thicker, but no change in flavor. I have also reheated, and reheated, enough times that it has crumbled and turned to 'pulled beef.' Nonetheless, it was just as delicious when spooned with the liquid over the appropriate bread.

          4. I have never used garlic powder or granules for this. Usually I use 10-15 cloves (3-4 heads) of garlic per 8 lb roast. The garlic is sautéed until golden after the meat has been browned, otherwise it burns.

          5. Peppers, Peppers, Peppers. Both sweet and hot. Bell peppers, seeded, quartered or eigthed (⅛), put in pans with olive oil, salt and pepper, roast in oven until softened. These also freeze well. And, for hot peppers, we always use hot giardinera. You can order this from Vienna online.
          https://www.viennabeef.com/shop/vien...iniera-4-pack/ Under 'options' you choose hot or mild

          I use almost ½ of a bell pepper and two heaping teaspoons of the giardinera per sandwich, for my taste.

          OK, that's just one ex-Chicagoan's opinion. Hah!

          Comment


          • new2smoking
            new2smoking commented
            Editing a comment
            The giardiniera I’ve used and been served has been in oil. Btw, Mosca, what are you doing up at almost 2am?!

          • Mosca
            Mosca commented
            Editing a comment
            Quarter to 5 here on the east coast. I don’t know. For the last few years I wake up in the middle of the night and can’t go back to sleep. I’ve countered that by going to bed earlier to compensate for the hour spent reading the internet to help turn my brain off. I’m usually turned in by 9-9:30, last night I was up later because, weekend.

          • PBCDad
            PBCDad commented
            Editing a comment
            Mosca listen to this man, he knows what he's talking about. Under his direction I produced some of the best sandwiches I had ever eaten.
        • HouseHomey
          Club Member
          • May 2016
          • 5555
          • Huntington Beach, Ca. Surf City USA.
          • Equipment
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          #11
          Great post

          Comment

          • Mosca
            Charter Member
            • Oct 2014
            • 3780
            • PA
            • Large Big Green Egg, Weber Performer Deluxe, Weber Smokey Joe Silver, Maverick 732, DigiQ, and too much other stuff to mention.

            #12
            Well this came out really good. This is a damn good sandwich.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	2C633C32-E51A-4490-B0C3-1752D53B8675.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	1.32 MB ID:	744058
            Last edited by Mosca; September 15, 2019, 04:43 PM.

            Comment


            • Mosca
              Mosca commented
              Editing a comment
              See the sausage peeking out? And, I used a fresh baguette from Wegman’s. Crunchy outside, soft inside.

            • au4stree
              au4stree commented
              Editing a comment
              Nice beer selection too. 👍🏼

            • new2smoking
              new2smoking commented
              Editing a comment
              Mosca With the sausage, and peppers, and juice, it’s what’s called in Chicago: ‘A combo wit sweet and hot, dipped’
          • RustyHaines
            Club Member
            • Sep 2017
            • 758
            • Tiedeman's Pond, WI

            #13
            Wow does that look delicious. Great job and great picture. Love me some Italian beef. Had my first one about 30 years ago from a street vendor in downtown Chicago. When I ordered he asked me if I wanted it dipped and I said sure. So he dips the whole sandwich in that Italian "gravy". It was absolutely delicious and I just about needed a shower when I was done! One of my most memorable food experiences ever and your post has me wanting to give it a try. Thanks Mosca.

            Comment

            • CaptainMike
              Club Member
              • Nov 2015
              • 2678
              • The Great State of Jefferson
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              #14
              I think I'll give this a go this week, thank you for the inspiration!

              Comment

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