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**DogFaced PonySoldier** · April 18, 2018, 08:33 AM

Well, tell us what exactly is going wrong? I mean... too dry? Too tough? Are you injecting? If so, what are you injecting, what rub are you using? Are you doing any kind of temp monitoring of the meat itself and/or the grates at various locations inside the smoker?

Just saying it ain't right ain't much to go on, but if we know WHAT'S not right, maybe we can help you narrow it down?

**edible hen** · April 18, 2018, 08:41 AM

DogFaced PonySoldier summed it up pretty good. Faux cambro/rest time could be added as well along with cook times. I've done briskets that were ready in as little as 8 hours and as long as 16 on the durango.

**Huskee** · April 18, 2018, 08:52 AM

What grade of meat are you buying, and are you wet aging it? Assuming you are in fact following all other advice as you say, my top suggestion is get Choice or Prime, and wet age that sucker at least 30 to 40 days in a cold fridge before smoking it. I recently made one that was wet aged 69 days and it was the single best brisket I've ever done, and it was only a Choice flat! If you pick the raw brisket up and it flops practically like wet towel, you're good!

**PaynTrain** · April 18, 2018, 09:07 AM

@tRidiot , it seems to have pretty good moisture, but is too tough. I use the Memphis dust recipe 9 times out of 10. I have a pit probe right next to it, running between 225 and 245, and a meat probe in it (using the 202 degree methodology). I have not injected yet, as I don't inject much, and have little experience there.

@edible hen By the above playbook, I usually end up in the 8-9 hour range. I often thought of not using a meat probe, and rolling for 12+ hours just to see if that did it.

@Huskee Good to talk to you again, I missed this place!!!! I have gone all the way from choice from Sam's Club, to prime at Mr. Brisket Cleveland (he ships to championship teams all over the Midwest. That amazingly didn't help me out, so it has to be my methods. I have not tried wet aging at all to answer your question. I don't recall this in the Meathead book recipe, and have not done much wet aging (outside brining a turkey and a ham).

Thanks for the help team!! Also, why the hell is this bold?

**jfmorris** · April 18, 2018, 09:13 AM

PaynTrain the wet aging that Huskee is referring to is simply buying it, and leaving the meat in the cryopac from the store for say 30-45 days past the packing date. Only then do you take it out, rinse, dry brine, rub and cook.

I've done exactly one brisket, a 16.5# prime from Costco, and it was in my fridge for a full month, then got dropped in the deep freeze, then thawed out a month after that for a week in the fridge. I then dry brined with kosher salt for 24 hours, rubbed it down with Montreal Steak seasoning (I was too lazy to make a rub), and I smoked it on my offset with oak, apple and some charcoal at a pit temp of 225-250F until it hit 150F in the thickest part of the flat. At that point I wrapped in foil with 1 cup of beef broth, put the probe back into the thickest part of the flat, and let it ride until it hit 203F. I pulled it from the smoker at 7AM, dropped it into a cooler with some towels on top of it, and left it for almost 5 hours (we went to church). It was down to about 160F when we got home at 12:30PM. Best brisket I've had, compared to any of the BBQ joints around here. My 25 year old who "doesn't like brisket" liked it. Very tender in the flat, SUPER AWESOME in the point.

The total cook time was close to 14 hours, and then it was held in the faux cambro for almost 5.

I would do what Huskee says and age it for a while, then follow Meathead's advice, including wrapping with the beef broth.

**Troutman** · April 18, 2018, 09:30 AM

I'm a bit confused as to what you seem to be doing wrong, just not enough specific information. Maybe a blow by blow description of what exactly you do each time you cook could be picked at by the members. Here are some things you might want to look at specifically;

1) Quality of meat - sounds like you have some pretty good briskets so I'm not thinking that's the issue
2) Wet aging - it does help but I don't think it's an absolute must, I usually do about 45 days
3) Injection - I've cooked both ways but found that with it you have a better chance at moisture control. I also us phosphates in my beef broth injection because it holds moisture better.
4) Rub - salt and pepper here in Texas so anything more is really for your personal flavor profile.
5) Cook - you can't really say when a brisket is done, you have to feel that it's done. It has to probe like butter. If that's at 202* ok, some take longer like up to 210* or more. Bottom line when you get up to that temperature range throw out the probe and start feeling and poking the meat.
6) Crutching - either with paper or foil. Foil allows the meat to braise in it's own juices. I've been doing foil pans lately. You loose some bark on the bottom but that's usual fat anyway so I don't care.
7) Resting - stick it in a cooler for 1 1/2 to 2 hours and let it mellow out.

Last and most importantly, relax and don't give up. Crack open and beer and don't stress about it, it's a piece of meat, master that sucker. Let us know what you think you're doing wrong based on any of the above.

**PaynTrain** · April 18, 2018, 10:06 AM

Troutman good stuff there. Let me add to your items:

1) Quality of meat - sounds like you have some pretty good briskets so I'm not thinking that's the issue
I too am pretty confident this is not the case as well. This was my first go to (couldn't be me!)
2) Wet aging - it does help but I don't think it's an absolute must, I usually do about 45 days
I never have done this, but will be on my next cook for sure
3) Injection - I've cooked both ways but found that with it you have a better chance at moisture control. I also us phosphates in my beef broth injection because it holds moisture better.
This too has not been done yet, but will be on the next cook. Regarding phosphates, how do you add these to your broth?
4) Rub - salt and pepper here in Texas so anything more is really for your personal flavor profile.
I am confident it is not the rub. I have gone from your mentioned dalmation rub, to memphis dust, to some specific ordered beef rub
5) Cook - you can't really say when a brisket is done, you have to feel that it's done. It has to probe like butter. If that's at 202* ok, some take longer like up to 210* or more. Bottom line when you get up to that temperature range throw out the probe and start feeling and poking the meat.
This has to be a MAJOR component in my errors. Experience. I don't have an idea of how one should feel when perfect. My brisket flats definitely seem to be stiff, but I have been so afraid of drying it out (I actually convinced myself I have been over cooking them)
6) Crutching - either with paper or foil. Foil allows the meat to braise in it's own juices. I've been doing foil pans lately. You loose some bark on the bottom but that's usual fat anyway so I don't care.
I have tried everything from butcher paper, pan with foil roof, foil wrap, and no crutch.
7) Resting - stick it in a cooler for 1 1/2 to 2 hours and let it mellow out.
This also has to be a flaw in my process. I have never been able to rest for very long (timing up the dinner with the brisket as the main course). Perhaps I cancel trying to deliver a brisket around a specific time, and try to cook one proper instead?!?!

**Huskee** · April 18, 2018, 10:12 AM

Aside from good quality meat, wet aging in a cold fridge, and proper cooking & finishing, my next piece of advice is don't trim too much fat cap. Better leaving too much on than trimming too much off. If you decide to wrap, you can do beef broth, water, or just skip it. I skip adding extra liquid. There's always a cup of liquid in the foil after cooking even when wrapping dry, which tells me adding anything when wrapping is pointless.

**efincoop** · April 18, 2018, 10:12 AM

I am following this thread as I feel PaynTrain 's pain (bad pun perhaps?). I have followed Meatheads Pastrami & Corned Beef recipes with great success, but have never been pleased with my attempts to cook BBQ brisket. My briskets are never as moist & tender as I think they should be. Like PaynTrain I have tried different methods. My best attempt to date was strictly following Meathead's instructions including injecting & wrapping. My cooker of choice for brisket is my 18" Vision Classic B Kamado. For my next attempt I was planning to leave the fat cap in place & cook it fat side down to see if that would protect the meat more and preserve more of the moisture.

**MBMorgan** · April 18, 2018, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by PaynTrain View Post

@tRidiot I have a pit probe right next to it, running between 225 and 245

Might be nit-picking here, but just how close to the meat is your probe? If it's closer than 2 inches or so, it could be in the so-called "meat shadow" where it's sitting in colder air than your actual grate temp.

**Mosca** · April 18, 2018, 10:28 AM

Memphis Dust is kind of sweet for brisket. Try the Big Bad Beef Rub instead.

Two things stick out in your last exchange with Troutman. Fix these two and I think you will be fine.

1) You wrote, "I don't have any ides of how one should feel when perfect." That's because you haven't hit it. I went through the same thing on my first brisket, I pulled it at 203* and it was tough. Maybe too long? Maybe not long enough? Who knows. On the next one, I started probing at 190*. When it's done, the skewer goes in like there's nothing there, and the light bulb goes off! And you think, "Oh. Now I get it." Sometimes they're done at 195*. Sometimes at 192*. Sometimes at 205*. They all come from different cows, after all.

2) You wrote, "I have never been able to let it rest for very long..." Well, yeah, that will make a difference. Keep in mind that an hour is a minimum, but four hours is a maximum. Plan the cook so that dinner is somewhere between 1 and 4 hours from probe tender. That is a HUGE window. If dinner is at 6, you can finish anywhere from 2PM to 5PM. I've found the sweet spot is around 90 minutes.

Last, don't think so hard. It's a big hunk of meat. Put the meat over the heat and cook it until it's done. That's all there is to it. Wrapping, not wrapping, injecting, not injecting, whatever. Put the meat over the heat and cook it.

**Huskee** · April 18, 2018, 10:34 AM

If you're able to drop your cooker temp to 150-180 the last 2 hrs, after it reaches final doneness temp of course, that can serve as your faux cambro hold as well. Or fire up your kettle or BGE to a low temp like that and move it there for a couple hrs. This could eliminate some mess from using a cooler and give you a good means to hold it to finish.

**radshop** · April 18, 2018, 11:05 AM

The first time I did a brisket, it turned tough - I think that was mainly because I was impatient and going by time/temp rather than probe tenderness. But I didn't exactly know that at the time.

So my second brisket I worked over with a jacquard before applying the dry rub - in fact I over-did it. Pretty much the whole thing became shredded when I tried to slice it. So after that I found that a moderate amount of jacquard treatment helped with tenderness - 1 pass over the thick parts.

I don't use the jacquard on brisket any more because I've gotten better at being patient and at judging the probe tenderness. But it did seem to help while I was learning. A brisket is big investment of money and time, so there's nothing wrong with using a few tricks to get a better outcome. One man's experience for what it's worth.

**Powersmoke_80** · April 18, 2018, 11:28 AM

If you buy a whole case then you’ll see the pack date and as a bonus you will have a few to practice on.

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Brisket FAIL, please god help me

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