What does "American Wagyu" mean?

[Oak Smoke]

First of all I think American Wagyu is under stood to be a cross between an American cattle breed and true Japanese wagyu.
I think you have an opportunity to do something meaningful for the industry. I completely agree with Feller’s Ranch Wagyu. If you set up a numeric grading system, say 1 through 4, based on percentage of wagyu in each offering and percent of fat, people will know what is being offered to them. For instance, grade 1 is 85 to 100% Japanese Wagyu with a BMS score of between 9 and 12. You would of course know other variables that could be used. That would quantify what is being offered for sale. Each following grade would have it’s own set of standards. This would make describing what you have to offer much less subjective and much clearer to the potential customer. I seriously applaud your steadfast adherence to honesty.

[bbqLuv]

What does "American Wagyu" mean?
It means More Money per Pound.

[SJUfeller]

No denying that, if you are comparing it to traditional commercial beef. It is worth it though! Everyone is entitled to something special once and a while😁

[bbqLuv]

You're right, everyone is entitled to something special once and a while.

[smokenoob]

Wagfellers?
sorry I couldn,t resist……

[Richard Chrz]

As a new to American Wagyu purchaser, only one time. I would prefer to see Fellers Ranch, it has a name that we can associate, with the story you tell us on your website, on why Fellers.

Being a Austin Mn raised kid now into bbq in La Crosse, I’m definitely interested in purchasing, and personally I would rather say Fellers Ranch Wagyu beef, vs, American Wagyu.

I’m looking forward to trying some Fellers Ranch beef.

[smokenoob]

I agree! Create your own standard that people trust, otherwise rustlers will move in and dilute the meaning….

[SJUfeller]

Just a short drive to Albert Lea or Conger!

[FireMan]

Since my wife died I haven’t been back to MN in 2 1/2 yrs. Tempting.

[STEbbq]

Similar to other posters, I would prefer Fellers’ Ranch wagyu over American wagyu because I expect American wagyu to be watered down by others over time.

I, personally, think the % wagyu and BMS scores are super interesting and I’d love to know that. I don’t think the average buyer would care, but I think there is a happy medium here. For example, I am familiar with SRF Black and Gold but did not know the difference was related to BMS score.

What I think would be most powerful is simply displaying the difference in BMS score or wagyu % via pictures. Make a side by side comparison for each cut of meat and then describe, as you have in the past here, how most buyers prefer a BMS score in the 6 range (I think), and 9+ is reserved for really special occasions and/buyers who actually enjoy meat that high on the scale.

The pictures are going to quickly help buyers who don’t know or care about wagyu % or BMS score to compare your meat to what their regular grocery store beef looks like. Then, it is an easy sale.

I also like to see recipes for the beef I am buying, pics of the part of the cow it is coming from, and as I think you are hinting at, education on the BMS score and what makes up a Fellers Ranch wagyu.

[SJUfeller]

Educating the customer is key. Most people on this forum are much more well informed than the general public about Wagyu.

[WillTravelForFood]

1. What does the term "American Wagyu" mean to you?

That it's not Japanese Wagyu. Personally, we know it's not going to be the same and we're okay with that.



2. In deciding what to buy, would knowing the % of Wagyu make a difference to you?

Sure, why not? An educated package/consumer is always good.


3. If you were our marketing consultant, would you recommend the use of the term American Wagyu on our packaging?

Yes, to differentiate it from Japanese wagyu.


4. Does the BMS score of Wagyu play a role in your decision on which Wagyu to buy? (Wagyu is ranked based on a BMS marbling score ranging from 3 - 12).


Does it play a role *now*, having read previous conversations on what the BMS score means? Certainly. Does a lack of it affect our purchase decision? Not currently. We'd suggest using this as a labeling/marketing opportunity in the same way that standard ground beef can be sold as 90/10, 85/15, 80/20, 70/30, etc.... If BMS is important for conveying a particular quality/flavor level for the Wagyu, you're better off including it even if other sellers aren't including it yet.

[SJUfeller]

this is a commonly used guide for BMS scoring.

[SJUfeller]

That did not come across very clear. Full size and clear, it is very helpful.

All the pics on our website, Facebook and marketing materials are our own.

The guide above is just the one that circulates around the industry.

The idea of putting numbers by our steaks is a great one. We are just BMS 6 and above, and we have never had a BMS 12. Thus we'd indicate that on our guide.

[STEbbq]

Got it. I agree with all of that.

[johnec00]

For what its worth, a meat vendor called Meat and Bone shows a chart comparing US, Australian, Japanese, and BMS scales. I'm not going to give a link, I've never bought from them, but you can look if you're interested. I'd simplify this greatly, most consumers don't care about Australian or Japanese scales, just show the US select, choice and prime as one bar and BMS as another bar, and your range as another. Maybe a couple of the guide photos showing US prime and your range.

[texastweeter]

Have you ever thought of indicating which of the 4 wagyu breeds are in your bloodline, say "Fellers American Kuroge Wagyu" or even just "American Kuroge" or something of that nature?

[Mosca]

My experience with a few different Japanese Wagyus is that the differences are nuances, and casual consumers won’t eat enough Japanese Wagyu in their lifetime to be able to consistently tell them apart. It would be more beneficial to SJUfeller to do exactly what they are doing: choose good cattle, raise the animals humanely, and control the environmental variables. In the end, what you call it is the marketing, and gets the product in front of the consumer; but the meat is… well, the meat!

[SJUfeller]

Mosca Absolutely agree.

Participating in the Wagyu industry like we are depends fully on the quality of our product. One bad experience results in the loss of that customer and anyone that person speaks with. People are paying a premium for a superior product. Inspection of each harvested calf by our butcher/partner is key. Not many businesses like ours have -- as partners -- the butcher, the farmer, the "originator" (finds the cattle and genetics), and the sale rep.

[SJUfeller]

Continued --

We grade our calves based primarily on BMS. We don't know for sure if the calf will grade 6+ BMS until after the hanging quarter is cut for inspection. It hurts to have some rejected (since it then is sold for less revenue -- without the Fellers Ranch name on it), but putting product in the marketplace that is not up to our standard would only hurt the business.

[barelfly]

I’ve read through this a bit, and can’t give you much on American Wagyu because I don’t purchase this. Like others, it may be overused and who knows what it actually is when you buy it.

I mentioned in the last thread, I have purchased “No Bull Prime Meats” and they state all meat is Prime and raised in New Mexico. It’s great marketing - I tell people I purchase No Bull Prime Meats, and it says everything needed to know. Prime, and where it comes from.

calling your beef Fellers Ranch Wagyu is perfect. Branding at its best. And if you have other grades, call it Fellers Ranch Prime or whatever.

Just my thought.

[SJUfeller]

I like that people recommend continued use of Fellers Ranch Wagyu. Selecting the name was much more complicated than we thought it would be. We sampled about 30 names with roughly 100 people.

unfortunately, we did not first screen the names for ability to trademark them. Of the 30 we sampled, about 20 could not be trademarked . . . including the one that scored the best. Thus, we went back to the drawing board.

We now have trademarks for both our name and logo.

[WillTravelForFood]

this is a commonly used guide for BMS scoring.

The average consumer likely would be overwhelmed by that graphic. It's a good reference, but too much for a package label

Might want to figure a way to summarize onto a graphic sliding scale (like salsa heat levels) to indicate ... uh..... richness? Goal is to make it easy as possible for a consumer to pick "level 5" this time vs "level 3" last time

And maybe put "choice" and "prime" on the graph too, for easier comparison.

[SJUfeller]

Totally agree that graphic would overwhelm most consumers. I provided it here so that those with a deeper interest in BMS #s know what I am referring to.

We do have an on-going dialog on how best to differentiate our Wagyu from others. There are a ton of farmers/ranchers that have recently gotten into the crossbred Wagyu industry. However, just having 50% Wagyu genetics does not at all guarantee a top quality product.

[rickgregory]

So, on the "number things from 1 to x" concept... Whole Foods grades various meats 1 to 4 not on quality but on conditions in which the animal is raised. 1 is a baseline, 4 is 'they run free and happy outside (until we kill them)" You can see the standard as well as the images they use on packaging here https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/qua...meat-standards

Something like that but focused around quality levels could be useful to your customers. My larger point is that they have a lot of information on their site about this and related efforts (look in the footer at the links under Mission In Action). Most people probably never look at those but for the people who really do care, they provide the information. I'd do something like that around quality standards. A lot of people will just see "Wagyu" and buy. But for people who do care about what you're selling, the info is there.

[smokenoob]

Definitely avoid “Wagyu Style” 😁

[Meathead]

A member has complained that "market research" like this as inappropriate. I don't have an objection. It has led to an interesting discussion on a topic many of us are interested in.

[Mosca]

I agree. However, a discount for Pitmaster Club members might not be a bad idea.

[SJUfeller]

Meathead. Point taken. I've enjoyed the dialog though, so I hope to continue posting. I'll avoid making research-type posts going forward, and just learn via normal dialog.

Mosca. We are planning to do a discount program as soon as we get through our current short supply of "fats" (slaughter weight calves). I have no idea what giving 10% or 15% off would generate in sales, and running a promotion but then not having some of discounted items in stock is to be avoided.

[Meathead]

SJUfeller You did NOTHING wrong. Something new, maybe. But it stimulated a great discussion and I personally invite you to mine the intelligences of our members. Those who don't want to participate can scroll on by.

[gboss]

Ok, I'll bite:


1. What does the term "American Wagyu" mean to you?
Answer: "american wagyu" is a nonsense term. It's made up to take advantage of people who do not know better.

Is California Sparkling Wine made with Pinot noir, Pinot meunier, and Chardonnay really Champagne? It's about the genetics, the methods, and the location.

2. In deciding what to buy, would knowing the % of Wagyu make a difference to you?
Answer: No, I would not buy anything labeled as "American Wagyu"
If it were marketed as e.g. "Angus x Mishima beef" then I would perhaps be interested in the percentages of the lineage.
Even then, genetic percentages of a specific breed do not directly correlate to desirable traits, so it wouldn't really be meaningful information, just marketing.
But labeling the source breeds in the cross could attempt to shift the focus from location to genetics, again analogous to wine.

3. If you were our marketing consultant, would you recommend the use of the term American Wagyu on our packaging?
Answer: No, but you shouldn't listen to me. Millions of people buy "uncured bacon" or "boneless wings" every day. The word "literally" now also means "figuratively." Call it whatever you think will sell the best, truth be damned.

4. Does the BMS score of Wagyu play a role in your decision on which Wagyu to buy? (Wagyu is ranked based on a BMS marbling score ranging from 3 - 12).

Answer: if I am buying Wagyu, BMS is taken into consideration. BMS is at least somewhat objective and easily understandable. It would be nice if that scale was more universally used and understood.

[SJUfeller]

gboss We briefly considered adding cross info to labels, but decided to just provide that info when asked. The problem with putting it on packaging is that our crosses are different from time to time. For example, over the last two months, about 90% of what we've processed has been purebred Wagyu. In the coming weeks, we will be doing a number of 7/8ths and 3/4ths. The crosses are Angus and Red Angus. Trying to have labels for everything would be a nightmare . . . at least for now.