Question: How do you decide when to buy your beef?

[DaveD]

Happy to help provide a datapoint for you, and also wish you all best in keeping your business thriving. The more independent producers out there, the better, IMO.

Despite living ten miles as the crow flies from the Lincoln Memorial, across the river in northern Virginia, there is but one decent standalone (non-grocery store) butcher shop within a reasonable drive. It's nothing to write home about, and I rarely make the effort (pretty much only for TXG turkey recently). Thus I do a good deal of my meat shopping ordering online. I've patronized Porter Road, Creekstone, Wild Fork, Crowd Cow, and Snake River Farms. You folks are on my to-try list, just haven't gotten around to it yet...!

I have a chest freezer with ~8 cu. ft. of storage where I store most of my meat; it's pretty uncommon that I buy something fresh to cook within a day or two, I pretty much always freeze what I buy, so buying frozen online works well for me. So with all that said, I buy year round except for the hottest months, which will be underway shortly. No reason to roll the dice on something going wrong. I'll probably hold off now on any delivery orders until September or so.

So my typical MO is to keep a reasonable selection on hand and pick something for whatever the upcoming occasion is, rather than buy something specifically for the occasion. The exceptions are Thanksgiving and the Yule feast.

Hope this helps!

[DaveD]

I do get the email updates, and I give them a glance just in case there's something on super duper special. Doesn't happen often, but every once in awhile I do go get something after seeing it in one of the emails. I'll say I treat these ones differently than most other vendors, where I very rarely agree to get their emails. Unlike most other things, I know I'm going to need more meat before too long...

[SJUfeller]

I like your comment about independent producers . . . the control that the Big 4 multinational processers exert over the industry is crazy. They have a calf for a very small fraction of the process, yet they often consume a large amount of the income to be earned.

[DaveD]

I got myself edumacated about these things right here on this forum. Hadn't realized the extent to which so much of the industry is in the hands of so few. Same as it ever was... Always on the lookout for ways to support the direct farmers & ranchers as best we can.

[DavidNorcross]

1. The weather (for example, do you need a solid forecast before deciding what to buy for an upcoming holiday? Like the mailman neither wind nor rain will stop the cook.
2. The time of the year, beyond weather (How much does your consumption of beef vary throughout the year?); Eat beef year round. Love the protein and eat basically the same in the winter as the summer months.
3. Whether there is a special or sale going on. When the stock gets low, we replenish.
4. Whether the beef is fresh or frozen; Fresh from local butcher.
5. How much space you have in your freezer/frig; 2 chests and 1 upright.
6. Whether bulk volume discounts are available; We buy in bulk, but do not always get a discount.
7. Whether the meat is what you regularly have, versus something for a special occasion. I am a weird one. Steaks are typically, ribeye, strips and sometimes filet's, ground beef, chucks and stew beef are the primary items we stock. Of course will purchase a brisket or two or three throughout the year. But typically stick to the go to cuts listed.

[Draznnl]

1. The weather (for example, do you need a solid forecast before deciding what to buy for an upcoming holiday?;
Weather doesn’t matter much. As long as there is no hurricane or tropical storm, I’ll cook outside.

2. The time of the year, beyond weather (How much does your consumption of beef vary throughout the year?);
I’ve had bad fortune with meat delivered in the warmer months. Unless I can get it overnight, a.m. delivery guaranteed, I will no longer order meat delivered here from May through September. Instead, I load up during the cooler months and supplement during the summer with Wild Fork deliveries or Costco.

3. Whether there is a special or sale going on;
Of course. I typically have enough meat in the freezer that I can wait for a good price before ordering more.

4. Whether the beef is fresh or frozen;
I prefer fresh, but most meats are okay frozen. Whole roasts that I’ll be breaking down into steaks, I’ll only order fresh.

5. How much space you have in your freezer/frig;
According to me, not enough. According to my wife, more than enough.

6. Whether bulk volume discounts are available; and
Discounts definitely play a part in my decisions.

7. Whether the meat is what you regularly have, versus something for a special occasion.
Not an issue.

[CandySueQ]

1. The weather (for example, do you need a solid forecast before deciding what to buy for an upcoming holiday? Not a factor for me.

2. The time of the year, beyond weather (How much does your consumption of beef vary throughout the year?); Personally, I eat lighter in hot weather. But, if I want a beef meal nothing else will do!

3. Whether there is a special or sale going on. I like a sale and I will stock up if there's freezer space.

4. Whether the beef is fresh or frozen; Either works for me.

5. How much space you have in your freezer/frig. 1 upright, 2 small chest freezers and the frig freezer.

6. Whether bulk volume discounts are available. That helps, but I'm not cooking for a crowd. If it helps you to push non-selling items, do it.

7. Whether the meat is what you regularly have, versus something for a special occasion. My meat special occasions are BBQ contests! I tend to buy briskets ahead of time. Occasions like birthdays etc., my go to is a whole beef tenderloin. Helps that the filet is my favorite steak. So, I will buy a tenderloin, trim it and cut into steaks to freeze for when needed.

Hope this helps!

[Murdy]

I doubt the users of this site are a good random sample of the public at large, so take our responses with that in mind. Then again, we may be a decent sample of people inclined to order large amounts of beef online.

1) Weather. Doesn't affect my buying decisions much.

2) Time of year: I cook year around and will grill/smoke in the winter but certainly not as much. In the winter, we do less steaks and more roasts. And we probably shift away from beef to a degree in favor of pork roasts and whole fowl.

3) Specials/sales: I do stock up from time to time when I see a good deal.

4) Fresh or frozen: Generally, it doesn't matter to me.

5) Freezer space: Definitely a factor. I have a mid-sized chest freezer and access to 3 refrigerator freezers.

6) Bulk: Not really, I might buy a loin and cut it up, or a pack of ribs and split them up before freezing, but only occasionally and never a 1/4 or side.

7) Special Occasions: I certainly shop for specific big family meals, so that is an aspect of my buying decisions. On a day-to-day basis, I'm pretty random and end up impulse buying a lot of weekend meals.

[jfmorris]

To answer your questions:

1. The weather (for example, do you need a solid forecast before deciding what to buy for an upcoming holiday?;

No. I've got covered space or patio umbrellas if it comes to that. I'll cook what we want to eat according to the holiday, regardless of weather. The weather just determines if folks are hanging out inside or outside.

2. The time of the year, beyond weather (How much does your consumption of beef vary throughout the year?);

I smoke or grill year round here in Alabama. So consumption is fairly constant.

3. Whether there is a special or sale going on;

Sale pricing is my predominate reason for purchasing beef. I tend to watch for sales at the local grocery store, or online, before making a purchase, and stock up the deep freezer with meat bought on sale.

4. Whether the beef is fresh or frozen;

I tend to buy fresh, then freeze, possibly after breaking down a primal or sub-primal myself. If I buy online, I don't mind it shipping frozen, as it has a better chance of reaching me without being spoiled that way.

5. How much space you have in your freezer/frig;

Available freezer space has a definite impact on whether I buy more meat, and the type I buy. I have 3 full size fridges with built in freezers, and a chest deep freeze. I tend to store meat long term in the deep freeze, short term storage in the other freezers.

6. Whether bulk volume discounts are available; and

Bulk discounts would certainly influence me, but within limit. I don't tend to have open freezer space for a 1/2 or 1/4 cow for example.

7. Whether the meat is what you regularly have, versus something for a special occasion.

I tend to buy meat when on sale, and save in the freezer, pulling out for regular meals as well as special occasions. For example, buy whole prime rib roasts on sale in Nov/Dec, butcher some into ribs and steaks, keep one or two whole for a party, and vac seal and freeze it all for future use.

[SJUfeller]

Thanks all! One more:

Do you like to receiving emails from meat purveyors? (Such as announcing sales or product availability.)

Personally, I am not a fan of vendor emails, especially if they are unsolicited. I simply delete most of them without reading them. In fact, I find it annoying when certain businesses email multiple times a week. I don't know if my view is typical though . . . as a couple of my partners feel that customers would actually appreciate emails once a month or so, and that they would generate sales during slow periods.

[tstalafuse]

I understand on-line vendors have to use contact lists and e-mail to reach existing customers, but I don't want to hear from you every week or even every other week. When I need something I will come back, so I really only want to hear if it is a great deal.

[SJUfeller]

That is how I feel about them as well . . .

[Huskee]

Yes, for sales. I am signed up for one I enjoy using and I watch for their sales on loins, trip tips, brisket points, and things that I personally like to stock up on. The particular outfit I use only sends them once for new sales, not daily as if we'll forget they exist and they want to be in front of our faces constantly, I hate the barrage that some businesses send out. Once in a while to me is fine.

[Mosca]

For me it’s sale and bulk discount, preferably combined. Right now we have enough meat (beef, chicken, and pork) to last well into the next year. However, those are the things that motivate me.

I’ve bought from Creekstone, SRF, Allen Brothers, Pat La Frieda, Click Akayushi, Compart, Cheshire Pork, D’Artagnan, and Meat Artisan, that I can think of; I’ve also gotten both American Wagyu and genuine Wagyu from Wegman’s locally, and I also have a local butcher that can get me Wisconsin prime and dry aged prime. I would definitely order from you. I also would like to give Flannery Beef a shot, but probably never will.

[SJUfeller]

Mosca Thanks. A couple of follow ups:

1. Of the vendors, do any consistently provide the highest quality Wagyu?

2. Do any do a better job than others with their packaging/insulation & shipping?

3. How do you define "American Wagyu"?. Some definitions I've seen used are:
* any F1 that is 50% Wagyu - 50% ANY other breed
* any F-1 that is 50% Wagyu - 50% Angus
* any Wagyu calf born in the U.S., even if it is 100% Wagyu

Thanks.

[tstalafuse]

Quality is always a key, if I can get it on sale even better, and do I have space to store whatever I am buying. Buying fresh and not frozen doesn't often figure into my equation unless I just happen to be standing there and it looks so good I can't stop myself. I don't stock up for summer or holidays as I usually have 3-4 briskets/pork butts/ribs/etc.. on hand and replenish if the deal is right.

[SJUfeller]

tstalafuse - When considering a steak, how do you decide if the "quality" is what you want/need, if you've never tried the brand before? Which of these play a role for you:

level of marbling
color
USDA grade of the beef
Breed of beef
grass fed vs grain feed

[tstalafuse]

SJUfeller

If I can see it in person, I start with grade of beef, marbling/color, breed, and then grass/grain fed. Unfortunately, unless it is labelled Wagyu or Black Angus it's breed is usually just cow. I actually prefer grass fed, but it is often times much harder to source locally and because of price doesn't often time fall into the price range of "when stocking up".

Continued

[tstalafuse]

@Fellers Ranch

Online - grade/breed since I can't see the other items, and only a few cuts to see if what is being sold is quality. Unfortunately, there are many online sellers that I don't buy from because what they shipped was poor quality and once they have the money they don't care.

[STEbbq]

I primarily buy based on sales or to replenish meats I always have available. This is usually brisket (full packer), ground beef, skirt steak, and ribeye steak. I buy tri tips and prime ribs occasionally. I really try to get Prime or better most of the time.

I see a lot of replies suggesting sales, which is great for us, but not great for a business if they lose money.

My online purchases are primarily based on quality I cannot find locally (you’ve explained this well with the different BMS numbers thus getting a future order from me) and cuts I cannot find elsewhere like beef navel for pastrami and pigskit (pork brisket from a Porter Road) but also cuts like Denver steak (also at Porter Road).

I have not crawled through all of the online sites to make comparisons but this suggests a few areas to help.

1) Offer large bulk buys of meat (10 pounds or whatever) for bulk buyers at reasonable prices. Maybe consistent sellers?

2) Offer individual portions (single steak, one pack of hot dogs) that let buyers experience new cuts (see Denver example) cheaply at higher per pound price. These can be discounted to drive sales without a huge profit loss depending on the time of the year. Maybe ground beef is a good idea?

3) Offer hard to find cuts (Denver, full plate beef ribs, teres major, beef navel, outside skirt steak) to capture buyers that want that hard to find cut. Could be discounted on individual portions while bulk buyers remain more everyday value pricing.

[SJUfeller]

Thanks. I never even knew what a Denver was before getting into this business . .

It has become one of our most sought after products. One of our restaurant customers will often take all of them that we have available.

[Mosca]

Mosca Thanks. A couple of follow ups:

1. Of the vendors, do any consistently provide the highest quality Wagyu?

2. Do any do a better job than others with their packaging/insulation & shipping?

3. How do you define "American Wagyu"?. Some definitions I've seen used are:
* any F1 that is 50% Wagyu - 50% ANY other breed
* any F-1 that is 50% Wagyu - 50% Angus
* any Wagyu calf born in the U.S., even if it is 100% Wagyu

Thanks.

SJUfeller I’ll reply in a quote because I think I’ll go over the word limit:

1) Allen Brothers and Meat Artisan both have top quality Japanese Wagyu: olive beef, snow beef, drunken beef, true Kobe, etc. Allen Brothers used to have some really off the wall stuff, odd Australian Wagyus, but it looks like they don’t any more. Meat Artisan does, just look at their website! Click Akayushi doesn’t sell to consumers any more.

2) It’s easier to say who has had the worst packaging: Meat Artisan, by far. In fact, it got nasty between me and the owner, and I told him that he should fire me as a customer. Not that he didn’t reimburse me for any losses, he did; my point was that I didn’t want reimbursed, I wanted him to improve his packaging and shipping vendors. It was probably just a mismatch of personalities, but a couple dozen people here have met me in person, and I think I’m pretty chill. I’m direct, but still I think I’m a good communicator and easy to get along with.

People here have had problems with Creekstone, but I haven’t. Pat LaFrieda ships fresh. I can’t remember any problems otherwise, so that must be good.

Also, we should remember as consumers that we need to be realistic when ordering beef from the other side of the country in, say, mid July. If you can afford Wagyu, you can afford expedited shipping. Don’t cheap out and then complain.

3) I can’t define it. I can only go by sight. If an online vendor says American Wagyu, I expect better marbling than USDA Prime, but less than A5, and if I get that, I’m satisfied. (I know marbling isn’t everything, but it is the only visual indicator we have.) In the butcher’s case, it’s easier. I’ve seen beef labeled American Wagyu that looked like average Prime, and I’ve seen Choice that was better than Prime, in fact we had choice porterhouses yesterday that were great. I’ve seen this:



Which is my all time greatest score, there were THREE of them and I asked if there were any more (there weren’t). Mostly what I see is what you’d expect: beef that is more marbled than prime, but nowhere near what is in that photo. And honestly, that, and Prime, is the sweet spot for me. I love the unctuousness of A5, but I LOVE the mineraliness of beef. Meat. I still have one A5 in the freezer, it’s for a special occasion. Sometime in the next two weeks probably, our daughter and her husband are with us as houseguests.

[rickgregory]

Also, we should remember as consumers that we need to be realistic when ordering beef from the other side of the country in, say, mid July. If you can afford Wagyu, you can afford expedited shipping. Don’t cheap out and then complain.

I'm going to pick on this becuase I agree 200%. I'm also a fine wine geek and people like me order wine online often because they cannot get a particular bottle in their market.

Like meat, wine is sensitive to temperature. Not to the same degree (ha!) but if wine gets hot it will push the cork and even if it doesn't get that hot, prolonged heat will damage the wine. We're talking about bottles that easily exceed $50/bottle and often by a lot and they're meant to age... hot wine will not age well, of course. And, UNLIKE meat, you do not want to ship wine frozen .

So, some stores simply will not ship when temps along the route exceed some threshold. What they do is to hold the wine for you in a temp controlled facility. If a customer insists, the stores will only ship expedited (1 or 2 day air) because they don't want to be on the hook for crediting damaged wine but also out of respect for the fact that it IS fine wine.

Translating this to meat, I would consider refusing to ship ground past certain distances. It's fine if you're shipping to the next state over and it takes a day. But shipping to me in Seattle when it's 100F along the route may well be an issue. Another thing to copy from wine stores would be to ship all orders on Mondays or Tuesday at the latest. I've seen meat vendors ship on Thursday which is dumb - that's guaranteed to sit in a UPS facility over the weekend, adding 2 days of above temp exposure.

[SJUfeller]

Thanks. We use UPS and we only ship on Tuesdays. All deliveries are next day, other than a few parts of the "lower 48", such as California. In those situations though we pack with extra dry ice. We had one problem very early on where product was shipped on a Thursday, and was supposed to be next day, but got delayed until Monday. Needless to say, that meat got replaced . . . and it was on our dime, not UPS. Since then, switched to Tuesday and we have not had a problem with thawing.