Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Beware Of The Marketers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Today is 3/5/2019. Since I first posted this on 3/2 your feedback and links have contributed to several modifications, most notably, a complete rewrite of the section on Sustainability and GMOs. Thank you so much.

    Comment


    • perry green
      perry green commented
      Editing a comment
      Really one of your best posts and that is saying a lot.

    #32
    Meathead I would think we are all invested in the success of your writings. The more successful your book, the better chance we get more active members here. Obviously this is a difficult topic because you have to fight misinformation and feelings while still getting the point across. I think the coolest thing is that we had a few folks who are very knowledgeable on the topic chime in with additional science based input instead of emotion. That this hasn't turned into a flame war and is still generating thoughtful discussion further validates my choice to take advantage of the long term membership deal. Thanks to all who have provided external links on the subject, I always like to learn things from as many sources as possible... and the few entertaining links provided a worthwhile distraction.

    Comment


      #33
      I love this article on SO MANY LEVELS. Lots of ammo for my "all natural" friends,
      Last week I took a short food safety course with a registered nurse/dietician who warned us to only buy ORGANIC strawberries. And talked all about "natural foods"
      I might just stroll over to see her armed with this knowledge. Thanks Meathead!

      Comment


      • Potkettleblack
        Potkettleblack commented
        Editing a comment
        I've had some strawberries that were mindblowingly good, picked fresh. I've never had the like, organic or non, from the grocery.

      • Willy
        Willy commented
        Editing a comment
        Potkettleblack Excellent point.

      • Histrix
        Histrix commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm sure the main advantage is due to the different variety that many small scale organic farmers grow. Most fruits and veggies sold in mass market groceries aren't really of a variety intended to maximize taste/nutrition but, instead, are those varieties more likely to withstand the whole mass market harvest/sorting/boxing/transport/storage/shelving line of logistics which in many cases can mean weeks between picking and hitting the grocery shelves.

      #34
      Whole Foods has their brown sugar labeled "wholesome" in big letters. I guess because sugar is so healthy and unprocessed.

      I’ve also seen the phrase "heart healthy" in products loaded with sugar.

      Comment


        #35
        Better life through chemistry! I have a jar of MSG I use (very very sparingly) in a bunch if stuff. Don’t really need much at all.

        Right now I am enjoying a HIGHLY processed beverage. Tastes nothing like the raw ingredients. Because it was fermented. Unfermented (unprocessed) it would taste like crap.

        Comment


        • Willy
          Willy commented
          Editing a comment
          Re MSG, it's strange that Asians, who use it widely, don't have problems with it.

          Indeed, better life through chemistry.

          "Highly processed"? Perhaps distilled too? Oh, you sinner!

        #36
        Wow! Wow! This is an amazing discussion. I agree with all of Meathead’s comments. I work for Monsanto now Bayer and am proud of it. I personally know the researchers who invented GMO. I know their integrity and have TALKED with them about the questions I originally had. I read the research. I know the volumes of studies that have confirmed over and over the safety of GMOs. I also know and sat on Stewardship meetings that asked "Should we?" rather than "Let’s do it because we can!" And I can attest that many things were turned down. I have worked with the regulators. Guess what? They are human and they eat food too!

        No one person, company, scientific advancement is perfect. There’s risks in everything.

        If someone chooses to spend $6 a pound on organic tomatoes that is great if they can afford it. Other will buy a Porsche but I will by a Dodge. My car will will get where I want to go. I do know that the science with oversight and stewardship will help feed the world.

        Comment


        • Willy
          Willy commented
          Editing a comment
          Appreciate your contributions! Thanks!

        #37
        I'd like to try to drive home a point I made earlier--a point that I think just goes right past most people.

        There is basically no more land on which to conduct agriculture--growing plants and raising livestock, unless we tear down forests and such--think the rain forests. Nonetheless, we have more than 20% more mouths to feed in the next few decades (7+ billion vs 9.5 billion) AND, in general, these future people will be born into more affluent societies than those of today, meaning that very likely our food supply must increase by more than 20% in order to satisfy the demand. Some of these people are your grandchildren and grand-grand children...

        Without advances in agricultural technology--and very likely some lifestyle changes--feeding this many more people is not feasible. We have no choice but to pursue technologies like GMOs.

        Let me make one final point: To date, there have been ZERO health issues reliably blamed on GMOs. Reading through this very thread, the only real "concerns" come down to people being "creeped out". Further, the valid concerns about agriculture are completely independent of GMOs and they existed BEFORE GMOs.

        This topic deserves fruitful, honest discussion and widespread understanding, especially in a forum such as AR.
        Last edited by Willy; March 10, 2019, 01:46 PM.

        Comment


        • MattSayar
          MattSayar commented
          Editing a comment
          I agree with your sentiment, but I would like to know where you got the fact that there is no more land on which to conduct agriculture.

        #38
        ComfortablyNumb I took a look at the Academics Review article you linked to. Thanks very much for the link; it basically says that the organic folks are scamming us, which is something I believe. From the conclusion on page 12:

        "...This use of the USDA Organic Seal to convey superior food nutrition, safety or quality attributes of organic over conventional foods contradicts both the stated USDA intention for the National Organic Standards Program and the extensive body of published academic research which show conventional foods to be as safe and nutritious as higher priced organic products.

        As a result, the American taxpayer funded national organic program is playing an ongoing role in misleading consumers into spending billions of dollars in organic purchasing decisions based on false and misleading health, safety and quality claims..."

        Gotta bvgo now, but I will check out the other links you provided.

        Comment


          #39
          ComfortablyNumb To be clear, no, I don't believe the certification itself is a scam per se. I do believe organic supporters claiming organic produce is superior to conventional produce is a scam. The article you linked to says that as well. Like you, if I was a grower, I would not try to get OG certified.

          We are in full agreement on the expense and often silly, non-results oriented regulations for organic ag, as well as the emptiness of the word "natural". I too chuckle at the term "free range". Because of the poor treatment of chickens, we used to buy eggs at the FM. In a few years the price has gone from $3--$3.50 a dozen to $6 a dozen. I now buy eggs at the grocery store.

          I also agree with, and admire you for, your first sentences regarding treatment of and discussions with customers. I worked a FM for several years, sitting under a canopy and offering advice as a Master Gardener associated with the local County Extension Office. A couple of vendors confided in me over the years about some of their practices that weren't "kosher"--LOL. The fellow who used cotton defoliant as an herbicide topped the list. Not sure how even got hold of it. BTW, the use of the word "master" in the title Master Gardener is pretty much just blowing smoke up the skirts of unpaid volunteers. That said, I did enjoy the program and I learned a lot.

          A final FM irony. One local FM vendor grows his lettuces and greens hydroponically, which means, of course, not organically, yet he does a good business at our FM. I'm fine with hydroponics; it just seems odd that a generally organic crowd accepts it.

          If you don't mind my asking, what led to your departure from the FM?
          Last edited by Willy; March 8, 2019, 03:12 PM.

          Comment


            #40
            As always worth reading and food for thought.

            Comment


              #41
              Golden rice, a GMO, finally approved for use in Bangladesh: https://theness.com/neurologicablog/...sh/#more-11293

              Comment


              • Meathead
                Meathead commented
                Editing a comment
                Great. Needed!

              #42
              Great article, Meathead. I think you would find Dr. Sarah Taber's take on food and farming very much in line with yours. She's a DPM. Doctor of Plant Medicine (who knew there was such a thing) and has been working in agriculture as a farm worker doing everything from de-tasseling corn to blueberry research on up to her current gig as an consultant on regulatory compliance. She has strong opinions and is often NSFW and will make you think about what's wrong with our food systems.



              Comment


              • Willy
                Willy commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for the mention of Sarah Taber. I hadn't heard of her. She sounds like a good source of reliable science with respect to food.

              #43
              MattSayar The source of my 40% claim is the May 2014 issue of Nat Geo. They show that 38.6% of earth's non-iced (non-iced being a fact I omitted) land is devoted to agriculture, 46.5% is undeveloped (forests, high mountains, tundra, deserts) and 14.9% is "other" (erosion, rural housing/business, urban, planted forests/logging, mines, roads, reservoirs, railways).

              There really isn't any significant land area left that is not already being exploited. I phrased my comment a bit better in an earlier post on this thread where I wrote: "Not much is left to exploit except the tropical rain forest regions and I don’t think we want to go there".

              I think many people have a somewhat naive view of agriculture as "blending in with nature"--Farmer John puffing on his corn cob pipe while birds flit and deer frolic. In reality, large-scale agriculture (especially crops) is extremely hostile to "nature". Every acre planted with corn, wheat, taters, whatever is an acre unavailable for Bambi and Thumper. The more we till, the less (pardon the cliche) biodiversity, the fewer places for recreation, etc.

              Land for agriculture is a hot topic. Try some Google searches for articles. I find this whole discussion fascinating; I hope you do too.

              Comment


                #44
                Meathead, I"ll meet you at the pearly gates with the glasses and the sauce! Thanks for not succumbing to the political correctness and food police!

                Comment


                  #45
                  I came across this article today, thought it might be of interest to this discussion.

                  A produce stand A recent review article in the scientific journal Nature Plants makes the claim that organic produces "foods that contain less (or no) pesticide residues, compared with conventional farming."  That's not what the latest USDA-PDP (Pesticide Data Program) information about pesticide residues says. What that transparent source of tax payer-supported research indicates is [...]

                  Comment


                  • Dick Anderson
                    Dick Anderson commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks, ComfortablyNumb very timely. Top story last evening and this morning in the Bay Area is EWG's Dirty Dozen.

                  • Meathead
                    Meathead commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks. I shall read the original research and update my article.

                Announcement

                Collapse
                No announcement yet.
                Working...
                X
                false
                0
                Guest
                Guest
                500
                ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
                false
                false
                {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
                Yes
                ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
                /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here