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Planning a SVQ Short Rib Cook

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  • jumbo7676
    Club Member
    • Jun 2018
    • 243
    • Centreville, VA
    • GMG Daniel Boone

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    Planning a SVQ Short Rib Cook

    I have some short ribs in the freezer that I plan to SVQ. Going to try the recommendation I saw some time ago by Potkettleblack and SV 133/72, smoke 'em, sear 'em. But I have a few questions...

    The ribs are currently vacuum sealed and can easily go from freezer to SV, but they are completely naked. Should I open them up, add some salt, and reseal or just SV as is and add salt & pepper before smoking? I seem to recall reading that dry brining before sous vide yields different results than a regular dry brine. The fact that the ribs will be in the bath for so long has me thinking that nekked is the way to go.

    Smoke and sear - I will likely be taking the ribs out of the SV, shocking in ice water, and leaving in the fridge for a few hours before smoking. Is 120 IT a reasonable target on the smoker in order to keep them below 133 after a quick sear?

    Once I've got those details figured out, I just need to figure out what to do with the purge.
  • Fire&Water
    Club Member
    • Aug 2017
    • 30
    • Valrico, FL

    #2
    you can do it either way.. if you add salt before the SV cook it will brine the meat at an accelerated rate as heat will increase it. I prefer too season a little before SV and after before finishing. I usually do 134/48.. 72 is over kill and can make them too tender IMHO.. it is also a good practice to chill the ribs in an ice bath after the sous vide cook so you have more time in the smoker before they get back up to the temp you cooked them to. you do not want to cook them over the sous vide temp..
    Last edited by Fire&Water; October 16th, 2019, 09:08 AM.

    Comment


    • jumbo7676
      jumbo7676 commented
      Editing a comment
      @Fire&Water Thanks for the info. I was planning on an ice bath and some fridge time before I get around to smoking them.

      I hadn't thought about it, but I like the idea of pulling some at 48 and some at 72 so I can try both.

    • Polarbear777
      Polarbear777 commented
      Editing a comment
      I use 32-35F x 72 hours if I want it pullable. 48 is probably about right. You can tell by how pliable they feel.
  • klflowers
    Club Member
    • Sep 2015
    • 2758
    • Tennessee

    #3
    Think about trying the QVQ method - get some smoke on them before they go in the SV, then chill and smoke again after the SV. It works really well. On the first smoke, I usually go a couple of hours to get some color and some smoke, but you can leave them longer - just keep up with the meat's internal temps and don't exceed the temp that you will SV them at. This was introduced by Troutman , and it is an excellent method.

    Comment


    • Troutman
      Troutman commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the props klflowers but I actually learned it from other members here, one of whom is not longer with us. And yes I think it's an excellent way to cook low and slow proteins
  • Troutman
    Club Member
    • Aug 2017
    • 6891
    • Republic of Texallence

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    #4
    I agree with the comments on QVQ cooking. Smoke first, SV to get tender, then smoke to finish and re-establish bark.

    On short ribs; however, I really don't see the need. It's a lengthy process (depending on the bath time you choose) and is somewhat unnecessary in my opinion. Short ribs by their very nature tend to be full of fat, not so much so connective tissue. When you smoke them, I usually do at 275* for maybe 6 hours, the fat is totally rendered and the tenderness is unsurpassed.

    Why spend hours then going through the entire QVQ process? Brisket and pork butts, yes for sure. Rare steaks, absolutely to get that edge to edge pink interior. But short ribs, I've done them both ways and just don't see any advantage to the long QVQ process?

    Comment

    • jumbo7676
      Club Member
      • Jun 2018
      • 243
      • Centreville, VA
      • GMG Daniel Boone

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      #5
      I've been wanting to try the 72 hour short rib cook, which is why I bought the ribs. I don't have time for the to man the smoker before the 72 hour cook, so SVQ seemed like the best way to go for the long bath while still adding some smoke flavor.

      Comment

      • Meathead
        BBQ Whisperer, Mythbuster
        • May 2014
        • 1263
        • Chicago area
        • Remember, no rules in the bedroom or kitchen
          Meathead

        #6
        I am writing a chapter for my next book on SVQ and I have been doing some extensive testing. I find very little benefit to pre smoking and pre-rubbing. Major benefit is you get a smoke ring and you don't with post-smoking. I do like pre salting. I have had great lick with shorties anywhere between 145 and even up to 175 if they are fatty and they usually are. 12-18 hours is excellent. I then went to the smoker for 1 and 2 hours. Little difference between them. I tosses a few on a HOT gas grill (no smoke) and the fat seared beautifully and I like these better than the smoked ones. BTW, the same process was perfect for brisket point. Have fun!

        Comment

        • Polarbear777
          Club Member
          • Sep 2016
          • 1532

          #7
          I’ve not done side by side tests with QVQ vs SVQ but same recipe months apart, I thought the QVQ had more smoke flavor and better bark in the end. Some of the smoke escapes the bag in the water (even though you still have a good vacuum seal) so your bath smells like smoke, which is interesting.

          Though with SVQ you can start right from frozen so that saves some work and in some cases is probably worth the savings.

          The most important key to either is to never exceed your SV temp. ( I pretty much use 132-135F, so I’m not exceeding MedRare).

          Comment


          • Troutman
            Troutman commented
            Editing a comment
            I agree totally. There is a difference in my cooks between QVQ and SVQ. As you say, you jump start the bark (therefore a better finish) and oh the flavor it gives the purge, amazing !!!
        • jumbo7676
          Club Member
          • Jun 2018
          • 243
          • Centreville, VA
          • GMG Daniel Boone

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          #8
          I got some great input (thank you all!) here and elsewhere and came to the realization that when it comes to sous vide, personal preferences are going to vary even more widely than other methods of cooking since you have greater control over more variables (precise cooking temp, length of cook, pre/post bath sear, pre/post bath smoke). The only way to figure out what I like best is to try a whole bunch of different methods. I feel like this is sending me down a rabbit hole, but the rabbit hole is littered with tasty pieces of beef ribs to try along the way until finally coming the the end of the tunnel, years later, with a preferred recipe. What have I gotten myself into?

          This cook - I decided to open the vacuum packs so I can add some salt and re-vacuum seal them and dropped them in at 133 degrees. I'm going to pull some after 48 hours and some after 72. They'll get an ice bath and the sit in the fridge until ready to rub and smoke to an IT of 115-120 before getting a quick sear in a hot cast iron pan. They will all be smoked together, so the 48 hours ones will have an extra 24 hours in the fridge before smoking (not sure if that makes any difference). Will be smoking/eating on Sunday, so I'll have some results to share Sunday night or Monday.

          Next cook, whenever it may be - Will try Meatheads rec of higher temp, shorter time. Somewhere from 145-175 degrees for 12-18 hours. Then will try smoking some, searing some, and smoking & searing some.

          Comment

          • Troutman
            Club Member
            • Aug 2017
            • 6891
            • Republic of Texallence

            • OUTDOOR COOKERS
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              Pitts & Spitts Pellet Pro 2436
              BBQ ACCESSORIES
              Classic Thermopen
              Thermoworks SMOKE
              Fireboard Pro with Pit Viper fan
              Grill Grates
              SNS for the 22" Weber kettle
              A-MAZE-N Smoker 12" Tube & Tray
              Weber stainless veggie basket
              Weber stainless fish basket
              Weber stainless rib rack
              Phat Mat cooking mats
              Barbestar BBQ Cooking Gloves
              WOOD & PELLET PREFERENCES
              For Beef (brisket, beef ribs, large clods/roasts) = 100% mesquite, oak or hickory
              For Chicken & other fowl = competition blend, cherry/oak/hickory
              For Turkey = 100% hickory or competition blend
              For Pork Shoulder = mesquite, oak or hickory
              For Pork Chops or Ribs = 100% applewood
              SOUS VIDE
              Anova Immersion Circulator 900 watt & 12 & 18 quart Rubbermaid containers with hinged sous vide lids
              INDOOR COOKWARE
              Generic Calphalon non-stick cookware set of pots and pans
              12" & 14" All-Clad Stainless skillets
              Cast Iron 12" skillet by Victoria
              La Creuset Cast Iron 7 quart Dutch Oven - Yellow Round
              La Creuset Cast Iron 7 quart Dutch Oven - Cherry Oval
              Old Revere Wear Copper & Stainless Pots (handed down)

              JA Henckels 15 piece Stainless Knife Set
              Victorinox 12" Fibrox Pro Slicing Knive
              Victorinox 6" Curved Boning Knife
              Set of Dalstrong Japanese Steak Knives

            #9
            One last reference jumbo7676, when I did my experimenting on various times and temps for shorties, I found this Chef Steps summary of 8 different cooks at various times and temps with tangible results. The end results are clearly shown. I think this is the most definitive demonstration of how varied the results can be using sous vide for cooking shorties. Good luck on finding your sweet spot !!

            https://www.chefsteps.com/activities...-ribs-your-way

            Click image for larger version

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            Comment


            • JGo37
              JGo37 commented
              Editing a comment
              That link was just amazing. thanks!

            • Polarbear777
              Polarbear777 commented
              Editing a comment
              Nice article but... I wouldn’t ever go less than 131 for more than two hours. I stick with 132F to get a 1 degree Safety margin

              of https://amazingribs.com/bbq-techniqu.../sous-vide-que

              ..."Some examples of foodborne pathogens that can grow at higher temps are Clostridium perfringens and Bacillus cereus which has a maximum growth temp of 131°F." So, to be safe we recommend you cook red meat, pork, and poultry at 131°F and above.
              Last edited by Polarbear777; October 17th, 2019, 03:35 PM.
          • Michael Brinton
            Club Member
            • May 2016
            • 265

            #10
            I was in the midst of the same cook when I saw this post. I dry brined for 48 hours. Smoked in the pk360 at about 300 degrees to 130 with just a little wood. Put them in the bath at 131 for about
            48 hours. Chilled down. Added a little rub. Then smoked again at 300 until around 120 and pulled. The salad with acidic dressing was needed. Wow! Maybe the richest dish I ever made. Wonderful! I do think the president sous vide step is needed for crust development, but I could see streamlining it and going right to the bath. Awesome technique no matter how you vary it! I could have used a better short rib but in Pa you take what you can get...
            Attached Files

            Comment

            • Potkettleblack
              Club Member
              • Jun 2016
              • 1880
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                Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something)

              #11
              Naked in the bag is fine.

              starting with the end in mind is a requirement to determine process, time and temp.

              the ChefSteps crew has done a lot of work on different times and temps for short ribs, with videos for each demonstrating the texture and doneness.

              the 133x72, imho, is not a great candidate for QVQ, but rather for service like a steak, with individual deboned Chuck short ribs. The three bone rack would be a better candidate for a SVQ or QVQ application. 155 or so produces a fairly conventional BBQ finish, when combined with the Q.

              again, if you have a particular end in mind, it guides the whole process.

              Comment


              • jumbo7676
                jumbo7676 commented
                Editing a comment
                The end I had in mind went totally out the window. Was going to smoke them after I pulled some pork shoulders off the smoker on Sunday, but came down with the flu while the pork was cooking. So the ribs, individual and bone in, were pulled from the SV Sunday morning, shocked, and have been sitting in my fridge because I have barely gotten out of bed since Sunday evening.

              • Potkettleblack
                Potkettleblack commented
                Editing a comment
                That’s perfectly acceptable too. As long as they are sealed, they should be fine to hold at fridge temps.

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