Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sous-Vide Chuckie

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by fzxdoc View Post
    So from here on out are you only going to be doing SVQ on chuck roasts and briskets?
    Kathryn
    Can’t speak for others, but that’s certainly my plan going forward.

    Mike

    Comment


    • Polarbear777
      Polarbear777 commented
      Editing a comment
      well I’m not yet convinced that this is universal. I can draw any line through one data point. I’d love to see/hear other direct comparisons.

    #32
    Originally posted by Polarbear777 View Post
    well I’m not yet convinced that this is universal. I can draw any line through one data point. I’d love to see/hear other direct comparisons.
    I admire your caution in making a generalization at this point; it shows a true scientist at work. However, your findings are corroborated by Meathead in this post, so you're well on the way to getting closer to a conclusion.

    That said, we're talking about a subjective evaluation at the end of the tests, so all bets are off. As with most things BBQ-related, it comes down to pleasing ourselves, our families, our customers. So doing what works for each of us is a good way to go, IMO.

    Kathryn
    Last edited by fzxdoc; July 19, 2020, 06:42 AM.

    Comment


    • Polarbear777
      Polarbear777 commented
      Editing a comment
      Evaluation is definitely subjective but at least with side by side you can tell the difference if there is one.

      We need to do more of these. Problem is doing this with long SV sessions takes planning and time.

    • Polarbear777
      Polarbear777 commented
      Editing a comment
      Meh. Two data points is still sufficient only if the dependency is linear. Putting it on a log scale isn’t fair yet ;-)

      Agreed. Good start.

    #33
    I anxiously await more data! Remember, my goal in the booklet was to make SVQ less complicated and less intimidating. Same thing with much else on the website. Sure. Texas Crutch can make ribs better, but is it worth the extra effort on a Tuesday night? And preciesly how long? Worth the fuss? Worth the expense/environmental impact? That said, I am always interested in learning how to cook better so if Smoking and seasoning first is significantly better, I'd like to know it.

    Comment


      #34
      In my opinion, based on numerous attempts and various proteins (many of which are documented here) I’ve found pre-smoking before a sous vide bath, WHEN ATTEMPTING A RARE OR MEDIUM RARE FINISH, advantageous. Lower internal temps occur in a shorter amount of time, thus smoke and bark development seem hindered with only a post smoke.

      If, on the other hand, I’m cooking a steak on a Tuesday night, no way I would bother. Conversely I wouldn’t do it for conventional high temp finishes on brisket or chuck. At that point there is no advantage.

      QVQ and SVQ for me are a weekend technique. Week days are for quick sears and simple meals.

      Comment


      • crazytown3
        crazytown3 commented
        Editing a comment
        "QVQ and SVQ for me are a weekend technique. Week days are for quick sears and simple meals."

        Same here. I'm using my 'VQ' more and more on the weekends, and more likely than not it turns into a SVQ or QVC.

      • Polarbear777
        Polarbear777 commented
        Editing a comment
        I’m specifically targeting the methods where you never exceed 135, because once your cross 140, you are into well done territory and you lose the method advantage for retaining moisture.

      #35
      I did all my testing with 3-4 variables side by side in the same bath. Pretty easy. Take a slab of meat like a brisket flat, cut it in 4 equal parts (weigh them), and smoke one, smoke & dry brine one, smoke and rub one, just dry brine one, just rub one. Then pick the winner and repeat with smoking and grilling after. Pick the winner and repeat with rubs and/or oils.

      I did all my tests before dinner over the course of about 2 weeks. My wife and tasted blind. Unfortunately, I knew which was which. We agreed on almost all taste tests. It was my conclusion that the improvements in quality by pre-smoking, pre-rubbing, and oil in the bag were very small if at all. And that makes sense. Smoke is mostly water soluble, so are rubs. None of them penetrate far, and there is a lot of water in the bag, so the taste results lined up with the theory pretty well. The big differences were that you could get a smoke ring if you smoke in advance and you could not if you smoke after. If you add a sauce, no way in hell you could taste a diff. And skipping the pre-sm oking, pre-rubbing, and oils in the bag just made everything simpler.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • Troutman
        Troutman commented
        Editing a comment
        And again I would agree with you on high temp finishes. My attempts at QVQ occur at no more than a 135* finish where slices is desirable.

      • ScottyC13
        ScottyC13 commented
        Editing a comment
        This is what I love about this forum. People are trying and testing techniques and sharing the results. Thanks all.

      #36
      Welp, Y'all convinced me to give SVQ chuckie a try. Should be ready to come out of the hot tub Wednesday when I get home from work. Dry brined chuck I took out of the freezer and straight into the SV.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4814.JPG
Views:	420
Size:	87.4 KB
ID:	801374

      Hmm. Maybe I should grab another chuckie and smoke it in the traditional manner and see which I like best.

      Comment


        #37
        I should add that my experiments with timing were similar. I began by making a spreadsheet of the recommended timing from about 5+ respected sources. I sited them in the booklet in my discussion of timing for ribs. I did at least three tests for most meats. The lowest time recommended, the highest, and something in the middle.

        As for temps, I did pretty much the same thing but I never cooked under 131F because of the microbial issues cited in the table in the booklet. Again, I wanted to distill it down to some broad guidelines. I was not obsessed with getting the absolute best temp and time. When I was done I showed my chart to Chef Dave at PolyScience, Grant at ChefSteps, Kenji, Clint, and a few others. I read almost every post in here. They offered some course correction and feedback.

        I also checked with youse guys by reading almost every SV post in here. I remain in total AWE of your expertise. What an amazing body of info you are.

        Comment


        • EdF
          EdF commented
          Editing a comment
          Back at you!

        • crazytown3
          crazytown3 commented
          Editing a comment
          Same to you but more of it.

        #38
        Tried a side by side with a couple of the recently available store corned beef packages.

        purged then applied the full QVQ to one and SVQ to the other. Both got the bath for 135x72 and none of the Qs allowed to progress beyond 133F (med rare limit for entire cook).

        of course this is store bought corned beef and the pieces weren’t identical.

        Left below is QVQ, right is SVQ.

        as in the pulled chuck example I did, the difference in taste and texture was noticeable but not dramatically so. Bark was slightly better on the QVQ (I applied the rub to both before any cooking, and did not reapply any) Without a side by side it would be hard to compare.

        still need to do this with plain brisket, so there’s less going on to mask any advantage.

        Click image for larger version

Name:	862A749F-03E6-4AB9-8478-18E1215A2F1C.jpeg
Views:	420
Size:	294.1 KB
ID:	819056



        Comment


        • Troutman
          Troutman commented
          Editing a comment
          Yea I'd love to see the results on plain brisket. Did you detect more or less smoke in either one? Looking at the bark that emphasizes what I've been saying, bark and smoke are enhanced with the QVQ process over just SVQ. There's demonstrated proof.

        • Polarbear777
          Polarbear777 commented
          Editing a comment
          Bark is better and there is a tiny bit more smoke taste, but it’s subtle enough that I could be fooling myself.

        #39
        Thanks for continuing the research for us Polarbear777 . I always look forward to seeing your posts.

        Kathryn

        ETA: I like this type of research even though it's not as rigorous as Meathead's is. It's just plain fun to see the results of a side by side test even if it's not on the same piece of meat.
        Last edited by fzxdoc; March 23, 2020, 12:09 PM.

        Comment


        • Troutman
          Troutman commented
          Editing a comment
          +1

        • Polarbear777
          Polarbear777 commented
          Editing a comment
          I used the same piece of meat for the straight brisket test below. Even then it’s impossible to cut two large pieces the same. The flats sides were more similar than the points sides of course.
          I also wanted to use large pieces because that’s generally what I cook. Though, smaller pieces may show more of a difference actually because of the bark.

        #40
        Okay here’s the plain brisket.

        SVQ on left, QVQ on right. Same process never exceeding 135F. I split the brisket lengthwise and then divided in half.

        1. Bark on the right is better. Definitely noticeable. Even though the left bark was a little softer it was still delicious.

        2. Smoke flavor difference barely noticeable. I think because I was running smoke outside and smoke was on me anyway. However. Nobody else noticed any difference either.

        3. Pronounced smoke ring on right. If you want that presentation you’ll have to smoke first. Of course this doesn’t impart any noticeable flavor difference.

        is it worth the effort of the initial Q? Yes and no
        Yes: if you need the better bark and/or want the smoke ring
        No: the left is almost as good and if you wanted to cook straight from frozen (assuming you dry brined it and rubbed it before freezing) I think the convenience of that would outweigh the marginal gains.
        is it better than traditional?
        Yes: If it fits your schedule better.
        Yes: if you want brisket to be super juicy. Never passing 135F keeps it dripping with juice. Especially advantageous I think if you have a thin flat to cook.
        No: if you like extreme bark, you’ll need to smoke the traditional way. QVQ and SVQ will get you good bark but it’s not as thick and not quite as dry/crunchy.

        In ALL cases, the finishing smoke is required or you won’t have bark.

        Comment


          #41
          Click image for larger version

Name:	5DDBBA49-6C22-406C-838F-B999A016D323.jpeg
Views:	290
Size:	322.7 KB
ID:	826397 /\ flat


          point \/
          Click image for larger version

Name:	6ACF92D1-1024-4E00-9413-A27B168B740D.jpeg
Views:	292
Size:	323.4 KB
ID:	826398

          Comment


            #42
            Wow. Good info. I still like the QVQ approach, even though the advantage is minimal. Anything that ups my game even a bit is worth the effort.

            Thank you, Polarbear777 .

            Kathryn

            Comment


            • Polarbear777
              Polarbear777 commented
              Editing a comment
              The good thing is that all this testing is delicious.

            #43
            This is why love this site! So much info to read and figure out a plan based on prior attempts by the members of the Pit! Going the full QVQ with a chuck. Pre-smoke was Thursday morning, is in the bath currently, soaking at 135*. Will be full 48 hours tomorrow morning, may let it go a bit more depending on pinch test, but will ice shock tomorrow and then reheat on Sunday to set the bark. Was thinking I would slice this, but will see how that goes when I pull it from the Weber Sunday.

            thanks for the info here guys, from all, and the links to other cooks with similar processes.

            Right after the first smoke - using same ingredients as BBBR, just layered vs premixed

            Click image for larger version

Name:	B330BBA7-49E5-4311-9951-91955898BDD8.jpeg
Views:	282
Size:	160.1 KB
ID:	837166

            And in the bath, with the silicon lid to stop the evaporation and alarm from going off due to lack of water!

            Click image for larger version

Name:	0DDCD479-6F5B-4D93-9451-662458D00797.jpeg
Views:	249
Size:	133.5 KB
ID:	837167

            Comment


            • klflowers
              klflowers commented
              Editing a comment
              How did it turn out? I may have missed the final post. As an aside, I have started putting towels under the SV container. My counter top actually cracked during a long SV cook last summer.

            • barelfly
              barelfly commented
              Editing a comment
              klflowers - it turned out great. I posted in the show us what your cooking thread. 50 hours total bath time and then on the Weber to reheat after a day in the fridge. Really enjoyed it! The tenderness matched with the smoke profile was great!

              Like you, I also place a cork board hot plate under the container, cant really tell in the photo, but, like you, I don’t want any issues with the granite.

            #44
            I'm following along, barelfly . I love reading progressive cook posts. Looks like you're ticking all the right boxes. Carry on and enjoy the cook.

            Kathryn

            Comment


              #45
              Did a sous vide chucky...cold smoked 2 hours in the MES40, bagged it with a pack of onion soup mix then in the bath at 132 for 50 hours. Seared on the back side of the grill grates on the Weber Spirit. Very good, fork tender. I’ll do this again! Meanwhile, anxiously awaiting the delivery of a Rec Tec RT-590. Click image for larger version

Name:	F96D838A-319F-4A96-BDB9-E4EF7F0DD035.jpeg
Views:	276
Size:	197.0 KB
ID:	841332

              Comment

            Announcement

            Collapse
            No announcement yet.
            Working...
            X
            false
            0
            Guest
            Guest
            500
            ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
            false
            false
            {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
            Yes
            ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
            /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here