Sous-Vide Chuckie

[Polarbear777]

QVQ chuckie.


I tried chuckies several times and was always disappointed. Too dry. I wrapped earlier and it was good, but basically a pot roast.

After hearing PKBs interview, I tried this:
1. Dry brine plus BBBR 24 hours ahead ( I’m lazy so I just throw the rub on on top of the salt layer. One step.)
2. Smoke at 225F until about 130F IT
3. Bag the chuckies, vacuum seal
4. Cook in sous vide at 135F for 72 hours
5. Ice bath and put in fridge.
6. A few hours ahead of dinner, unbag and save all the purge
7. smoke at 350F to avoid the stall until an IT of 135F ( 350
hardens/dries the bark and you don’t need a stall because the time in SV took care of the collagen breakdown)
8. Remove and pull the chuckies and mix in the purge liquid.
9. Enjoy lots of smoke flavor, decent bark, and crazy juiciness.

[Dr ROK]

Have you ever tried going 48 hrs instead of 72?

[Potkettleblack]

I find 48 is adequate for chuckies. But, apply the pinch test. See how you feel. As I may have said in my interview, I tend to start SV projects like this on a Sunday, which means pulling at 48 on Tuesday, for finishing on Saturday. Gives me the ability to pinch at 24-36-48-60-72-beyond. When it pinches how I like, I pull, shock, chill, store, smoke.

[Dr ROK]

Potkettleblack Thanks!

[Polarbear777]

I confess I’m too lazy to check it and an extra day won’t hurt at that low temp so I just let it roll the full 3 days.
For brisket you may need all 3 days. For chuck probably not.

[EdF]

I still stand by this treatment. Haven't tried to SV one yet. You can substitute any rub, like Montreal. This always comes out great.

https://dizzypigbbq.com/recipe/clays-pulled-beef/

[Troutman]

Yea that's smoke/braise/smoke. There are multiple ways to skin the cat. Again it's what end result you're trying to achieve.

[Thunder77]

That sounded good until the maple syrup. No sugar on my beef!!

[EdF]

Thunder77 - I'm sure it's optional. This is Q after all! From my read and experience, it's a flavor thing and not essential to the keeping it moist method.

[Dr ROK]

Here are my results from following Polarbear777 process. I used a choice chuck from Sam's that I'd had in the freezer for a few months. Thawed in fridge and then I did the presmoke on rectec mini at 225 F till internal of 130 F. I did 72 hours Sans Vide @ 135 F. I did the post-hot tub smoke/warming on my rec tec mini at 350 F for 1 1/2 hours.

Meat was very juicy without the purge! I used a commercial steak rub I had on hand as I was out of BBBR and didn't have time to make up a batch. Bark was very good from the standpoint of texture, but I wish I'd have used BBBR w/ cumin. Would have been even better. In the future I also want to try chefsteps smokeless brisket rub recipe with this process too.


Chuck pulled and purge in bowl next to meat.




Juices added

[Polarbear777]

Credit to PKB if you liked it. If you didn’t blame me. All I did was write down what he talked about in his interview on brisket. I’m making pastrami using this method now.

I noticed better smoke flavor. Seems like since you are smoking the cold meat twice you get more smoke but not too much.

[Potkettleblack]

It's funny, because I talked about it, but I think you do QVQ more than I do at this point, so I find myself looking at your cooks, which credit me. Currently curing a brisket flat for pastrami, will use a hybrid of your method and Kosher Dosher's Full Megillah.

[Troutman]

I really don't get the long cook time, don't think it necessary. I've got my after pre-smoked times down to a rock solid 24 hours at 130* (because I want true medium rare). The Joule folks seem to agree with that without the pre-smoking. Add to that post smoking and/or searing (which is what I do) and you got a tender as anything steak like roast.

Anyway that's my experience....

[Potkettleblack]

I'm pretty sure if I went 135x72 and beyond, I could probably produce something pullable, directly out of the bag. Autolysis is a thing.

[Sweaty Paul]

Troutman do you pull it, slice, or serve as steak roast? I really want to try SVQ and figure a chuckie is good practice before attempting a brisket.

[Troutman]

Sweaty Paul When I cook Chuck to a medium rare finish I slice it like steak. Pulling Chuck occurs for me at higher temps, but I rarely go there.

[Polarbear777]

Main reason for long cook times is collagen breakdown to get a pulled product without taking it over 135F.

Take a pork butt

30-45 min at high temp in a pressure cooker

12 hour bbq cook with a good 5 hour stall that ends at 203F

72 hours at 130.

Al end up at same tenderness and are pull-able because the collagen has been converted to gelatin. Time+temp effect is roughly equivalent. The Contained methods will save the lost juices. And the SV method keeps the muscle fibers from being overcooked so more juicy also.

Granted 24-48 hours may be enough for some things. I’ve never tried to optimize. Something with fat and connective tissue won’t be hurt by going a little long.

I like the smoke-sous-smoke (QVQ) because smoke sticks to cold and wet and you get to do that twice.

A side by side optimization taste test would be best to nail the parameters, but that’s a lot of work for a non commercial entity.

[Potkettleblack]

I am all about optimization, so I pinch test every so often. Take the bag out of the water, pinch it, see how it feels. But generally, going over 48 produces the best result in the cuts with a lot of collagen to break down.

[Troutman]

OK I'll concede to the pull apart versus sliced, that makes sense, good point. 24 hours would not give you pull apart. I don't ever SV for pull apart, to me you just throw it on the cooker and let it smoke itself to that degree of tenderness. Yea it's a long slow smoking process but much shorter than a 4 day cook (1 day to pre-post smoke, 3 days in the bath). It would be interesting to do more side-by-sides, it still comes down to a matter of what end result you're trying to achieve, mine is rare sliced (can only be done via the SVQ-QVQ method). For typical 180* sliced I would say a toss-up, SVQ versus long smoke. For pull apart 203* tenderness I would vote long smoke.

These are good discussion and comparisons. I'm experimenting with various cuts of meat but always gravitate to 1) the most desirable for my pallet then 2) the easiest way to achieve that.

[Potkettleblack]

I see folks in SV Resources do ribs, but I don’t feel the need, since the Grilla pounds em out in 4 hours maximum.

[Thunder77]

JKLA has a recipe for SV ribs. I tried it, but I didn't see any advantage to it.

[Potkettleblack]

Forgot to mention... I did do the Chef Steps SV ribs once, and I think I had a bad rack in there, because I didn't wind up eating more than a couple ribs out of three racks. I think it was a bad rack or pack, but I've been gunshy since.

[Dr ROK]

Troutman IMHO, it's much less work/effort to tend the smoker for about a total of 4 hours (few before and few after) than 12 hrs or more, and I appreciate the flexibility SV gives me to not have to be home the entire time. The chuck I posted was the best I've done so far regarding moisture and texture. More experimenting to do, and I don't think I can say I'll never do low and slow chuck in the future, but this was easy peasy process with what I consider excellent results.

[Polarbear777]

I have a smoker set up that will run unattended for 12-14 hours but chuckies are just too dry even with a mid stall wrap, which is why I wanted to try this. Pursuing this method for brisket flat sides too for the same reason.

[Dr ROK]

My experience too. I've only used my pellet grill, so not sure if that's why they've been dry, but even a pellet grill is not set and forget. I had the pellets bridge once before, luckily I caught it after an hour or so and got things going again.

[Polarbear777]

I’m not using a pellet but a fan controlled pk360’loaded with coal and wood. So I don’t think it has anything to do with pellet vs not. Chucks are leaner than most things done low and slow which probably doesn’t help.

[Troutman]

Hey I'm with you brother, whatever end result that best satisfies your taste is what you're going to do regardless. I love the convenience of my Anova, but I also know its limitations and the fact that it can't make some of the deep smoked products I've grown to love. Again this is a good discussion. And again, your pulled meat does look delicious !!!

[Polarbear777]

Had to go again. Same results. Bark is crunchy on the edges.

Didn’t save the purge this time. Doesn’t necessarily need it but probably should have.

[Polarbear777]

Pic of post 350 smoke to 135F IT and pre-pull.

[Meathead]

Like your home made Slow N Sear. I just use bricks. This looks more pro.

[Larry Grover]

I'm following this recipe now. Phase one complete, it took just over 2 hours to get it up to 130 IT. Its sitting at the 24hr mark in the bath right now. A few questions:

- At the end of the 72hr bath what is the process? Do you pat dry or add more rub before the final roast?

- Regarding the purge, would a fat separator (commonly used during Thanksgiving) work?

- What size water container do you use? You always have piles of meat stacked up in your photos - looked like 4 chucks? Just one 3 pound chucky takes a lot of room in my 12 quart container.

[Potkettleblack]

1- shock in ice water.
2- remove from bag, dry or don't. I maybe wipe some purge off, but find it helps with rub adherence.
3- rub
4- smoke like it's raw.

[Potkettleblack]

A fat separator will not work for purge. The solids don't necessarily float to the top. We're separating protein out, not fat. SV temps won't render fat, generally.

[EdF]

After the sv, I'd icewater it. Then dry it off, re-rub, and bring it up to 145 or so with smoke. As far as the purge goes, you want to heat it up one way or another so you can remove the albumen. Microwave, simmer, whatever.

[Polarbear777]

Chill gets you more smoke. Plus I’m usually not ready to finish it after the SV step. The chill gives you days of delay in the fridge if you want because you easily pasteurized it through and through in the bags.

[Larry Grover]

Whoops I was thinking of steaks where you can slap it on the grill right after bath. Thanks for clarifying.

[Polarbear777]

If you go straight to the grill you will end up well above the internal temp you are trying not to exceed.

[Polarbear777]

After the SV I ice bath and hold in the fridge until I’m ready to finish it (sometimes days later).

I am heavy handed with the rub from the start so I don’t add more but you could before smoking if you think it needs it. It’s moist out of the bags so it will stick nicely.

Since its cold, when you remove it from the bags the fat is already solidified so pretty easy to separate. Save all that purge to mix back in. I mix the fat back in after pulling as well because, well, it’s good. :-)