Welcome!


This is a membership forum. As a guest, you can click around a bit. View 3 pages for free.

[ Lost Username or Password | Pitmaster Club Information, | Join 30 Days Free | Contact Us ]

There are 2 page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse

Meat-Up in Memphis 2020

Join us in Memphis for our Meat-Up! Space is limited to 400, secure your spot by booking early! Click here for details. (https://amazingribs.com/memphis2020)
See more
See less

Inagural Sous Vide Cook?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • hoovarmin
    Founding Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 577
    • Neptune Beach, FL
    • Weber Performer 22
      SNS
      Joule
      Thermoworks Smoke
      Thermoworks Thermapen
      Kingsford Blue Bag

    Inagural Sous Vide Cook?

    I ordered my Joule and hope to get it this week. What should I tackle as a first cook so that Mrs. hoovarmin can see what a great idea this was?
  • RonB
    Club Member
    • Apr 2016
    • 11438
    • Near Richmond VA
    • Weber Performer Deluxe
      SNS
      Pizza insert
      Rotisserie
      Smokenator 1000
      Cookshack Smokette Elite
      2 Thermapens
      Chefalarm
      Dot
      lots of probes.
      CyberQ

    #2
    I suggest hot dogs - boiled - er - sv'ed at the precisely right temp, they should be great.

    Comment

    • Georgia rookie 903
      Club Member
      • Sep 2017
      • 143
      • Augusta,Ga.

      #3
      Tri- tip steak, go look on youtube for adrenaline barbeque company dave and Justin (baby back maniac)

      Comment


      • hoovarmin
        hoovarmin commented
        Editing a comment
        That's a contender, for sure.
    • rodkeary
      Club Member
      • Jan 2017
      • 159
      • Port Moody, BC
      • Weber Genesis
        Bradley Smoker

      #4
      Congratulations on your purchase. You’ll love it.

      It it never ceases to amaze me how versatile and easy to use the Joule is. I’ve done steaks, chops, roasts, brisket, veggies and reheated leftovers just to name a few but without a doubt, the most impressive item was skinless/boneless chicken breasts. You’ll have to finish them on the grill or CI but both my wife and I were blown away by how moist and tender the chicken was when it came out of the hot tub. No more dry, tough or stringy chicken in our house.

      Comment

      • jecucolo
        Club Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 1220
        • Schertz Texas
        • Pit Barrel Cooker
          Slow 'n Sear for 22" Kettle
          Weber 22" Kettle (Craiglist)
          Slow 'n Sear for 22" Kettle
          Weber Rapid Fire Chimney
          Maverick ET-732
          Kingsford Original Charcoal
          Kingsford Competition Charcoal
          Anova Sous Vide

        #5
        I did beef ribs for my 1st cook. It was 30 hours the recipe said 48. They were awesome. My isn't a rib person but she loved them!
        Small filets were also good.

        Comment

        • shify
          Club Member
          • Jun 2017
          • 307
          • Westchester County, NY

          #6
          Burgers. Easy as can be and even shitty lean supermarket burgers turn out fantastic.

          First time I did burgers my wife was blown away. Got generic 80/20 chuck from the supermarket, made 6-8oz patties. Cooked for ~45 min at around 125-130 deg and then Seared cast iron for 1 min per side. Wife couldn't believe it was made with the $4 per pound ground chuck.

          Comment

          • JCGrill
            Club Member
            • Mar 2017
            • 1443
            • Minneapolis / St Paul burbs
            • Charcoal - 22" Weber Kettle
              Gas - Saber
              Smoker - Green Mountain Daniel Boone
              Portable - Charbroil Tabletop Propane Grill

            #7
            I did chuck roast at 131 for 48 hours. I could not believe how tender it got.

            Comment


            • hogdog6
              hogdog6 commented
              Editing a comment
              Nothing like 48 hour Chuck 🔥
          • kmhfive
            Club Member
            • Mar 2017
            • 3003
            • Northern Illinois
            • Weber Kettle -- 22.5" (In-Service Date June 2015)
              Slow-n-Sear/Drip-n-Griddle/Grill Grates (In-Service Date March 2016)
              Pit Boss 820 (Retired)
              GMG Jim Bowie WiFi (In-Service Date April 2017)
              Maverick ET-733
              Fireboard
              Home-brewer

            #8
            I second Georgia rookie 903 . TriTip is amazing!

            Comment

            • Thunder77
              Founding Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 2652
              • Halethorpe, MD
              • Weber 26.75" Kettle with SnS. Broil King Baron 5 burner. Akorn Kamado, and Akorn Jr kamado. Primo Oval Junior. Love grilling steaks, ribs, and chicken. Need to master smoked salmon Favorite cool weather beer: Sam Adams Octoberfest Favorite warm weather beer: Yuengling Traditional Lager All-time favorite drink: Single Malt Scotch

              #9
              Ribs. Spare ribs are great sous vide. Or baby backs.

              Comment

              • fzxdoc
                Founding Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 4508
                • My toys:
                  Weber Summit Charcoal Grilling Center (WSCGC) aka Mr. Fancypants
                  Pit Barrel Cooker (which rocks)
                  Weber Summit S650 Gas Grill
                  Weber Kettle Premium 22"
                  Weber Jumbo Joe Premium 22" (a weird little 22" kettle mutant on 22"-long legs) (donated to local battered women's shelter.)
                  Camp Chef Somerset IV 4-burner outdoor gas range


                  Adrenaline BBQ Company's SnS, DnG and Large Charcoal Basket for WSCGC
                  Adrenaline BBQ Company's Elevated SS Rack for WSCGC
                  Adrenaline BBQ Company's SS Rack for DnG
                  Grill Grate for SnS
                  Grill Grates: five 17.375 sections (retired to storage)
                  Grill Grates: six 19.25 panels for exact fit for Summit S650 gasser
                  2 Grill Grate Griddles

                  Fireboard Extreme BBQ Thermometer Package
                  Fireboard control unit in addition to that in the Extreme BBQ Package
                  Additional Fireboard probes: Competition Probes 1" (3) and 4" (1), 3 additional Ambient Probes. 1 additional Food Probe
                  2 Fireboard Driver Cables
                  Pit Viper Fan (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
                  Pit Viper Fan new design (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
                  Thermoworks Thermapen MK5 (pink)
                  Thermoworks Thermapen MK4 (pink too)
                  Thermoworks Temp Test 2 Smart Thermometer
                  Thermoworks Extra Big and Loud Timer
                  Thermoworks Timestick Trio
                  Maverick ET 73 a little workhorse with limited range
                  Maverick ET 733
                  Maverick (Ivation) ET 732

                  Grill Pinz
                  Vortex (two of them)

                  Two Joule Sous Vide devices
                  VacMaster Pro 350 Vacuum Sealer
                  Instant Pot 6 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker
                  Instant Pot 10 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker
                  Charcoal Companion TurboQue
                  A-Maze-N tube 12 inch tube smoker accessory for use with pellets

                  BBQ Dragon and Dragon Chimney

                  Shun Classic 8" Chef's Knife
                  Shun Classic 6" Chef's Knife
                  Shun Classic Gokujo Boning and Fillet Knife
                  Shun Classic 3 1/2 inch Paring Knife

                #10
                Any kind of meat except pork chops. They're my nemesis on the Joule. Much better wet brined and reverse seared.

                Too bad local fresh corn season is over, because corn off the cob with the Joule recipe is amazing. It's what made me buy my second Joule so I could have a veggie bath and a meat bath going at the same time.

                Start by choosing a Joule recipe on their app and follow it. So simple and usually very, very good. Except for pork chops. Did I mention that?

                Kathryn

                Comment

              • Potkettleblack
                Club Member
                • Jun 2016
                • 1835
                • Chicago, IL
                • Grill: Grilla Original / Weber Genesis EP-330
                  Thermometers: Thermapen / iGrill 2 / Fireboard
                  For Smoke: Chunks / Pellet Tube / Mo Pouch
                  Sous Vide: Joule / Nomiku WiFi
                  Disqus: Le Chef - (something something something)

                #11
                Let's see. The thing has to be fast. So, short ribs, chuck roasts, sous-b-cue is out.
                It's gotta be easy and not require special bags, so corn on the cob is out (180+ degrees... not for ziplock freezer bags)

                I'd go with something like airline chicken breasts.
                http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/04/a...fe-skills.html

                http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/07/t...en-breast.html

                I don't think enough people really explore modern poultry in enough depth with sous vide. It comes out so much better at low temp, it's insane.

                Comment


                • Potkettleblack
                  Potkettleblack commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Not really. I'm a big fan of sous viding the thing plain. Kenji's vinagrette works well, as does Chef's Steps Romesco sauce and Pesto. One time, I made some tenders in heavy cream with tabasco. That came out really nicely, as well. No penetration, but very good coating. But mostly, chicken flavored chicken, with a sauce after SV.

                • hoovarmin
                  hoovarmin commented
                  Editing a comment
                  @Ptkettleblack, Got it, salt and pepper only tonight. I read on the website that there was no need to dry brine chicken using this method. Do you agree?

                • Potkettleblack
                  Potkettleblack commented
                  Editing a comment
                  There is no need.
              • fzxdoc
                Founding Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 4508
                • My toys:
                  Weber Summit Charcoal Grilling Center (WSCGC) aka Mr. Fancypants
                  Pit Barrel Cooker (which rocks)
                  Weber Summit S650 Gas Grill
                  Weber Kettle Premium 22"
                  Weber Jumbo Joe Premium 22" (a weird little 22" kettle mutant on 22"-long legs) (donated to local battered women's shelter.)
                  Camp Chef Somerset IV 4-burner outdoor gas range


                  Adrenaline BBQ Company's SnS, DnG and Large Charcoal Basket for WSCGC
                  Adrenaline BBQ Company's Elevated SS Rack for WSCGC
                  Adrenaline BBQ Company's SS Rack for DnG
                  Grill Grate for SnS
                  Grill Grates: five 17.375 sections (retired to storage)
                  Grill Grates: six 19.25 panels for exact fit for Summit S650 gasser
                  2 Grill Grate Griddles

                  Fireboard Extreme BBQ Thermometer Package
                  Fireboard control unit in addition to that in the Extreme BBQ Package
                  Additional Fireboard probes: Competition Probes 1" (3) and 4" (1), 3 additional Ambient Probes. 1 additional Food Probe
                  2 Fireboard Driver Cables
                  Pit Viper Fan (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
                  Pit Viper Fan new design (to pair with Fireboard Fan Driver Cable)
                  Thermoworks Thermapen MK5 (pink)
                  Thermoworks Thermapen MK4 (pink too)
                  Thermoworks Temp Test 2 Smart Thermometer
                  Thermoworks Extra Big and Loud Timer
                  Thermoworks Timestick Trio
                  Maverick ET 73 a little workhorse with limited range
                  Maverick ET 733
                  Maverick (Ivation) ET 732

                  Grill Pinz
                  Vortex (two of them)

                  Two Joule Sous Vide devices
                  VacMaster Pro 350 Vacuum Sealer
                  Instant Pot 6 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker
                  Instant Pot 10 Quart Electric Pressure Cooker
                  Charcoal Companion TurboQue
                  A-Maze-N tube 12 inch tube smoker accessory for use with pellets

                  BBQ Dragon and Dragon Chimney

                  Shun Classic 8" Chef's Knife
                  Shun Classic 6" Chef's Knife
                  Shun Classic Gokujo Boning and Fillet Knife
                  Shun Classic 3 1/2 inch Paring Knife

                #12
                Originally posted by Potkettleblack View Post
                Let's see.
                It's gotta be easy and not require special bags, so corn on the cob is out (180+ degrees... not for ziplock freezer bags)
                True--I use FoodSaver Gamesaver bags for corn, but don't seal them as the Joule app tells us to do because the moisture killed my last Food Saver sealer. I just press the air out and clip it the bag to the pot.

                Kathryn

                Comment


                • Potkettleblack
                  Potkettleblack commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That said, SV Corn on the Cob is kind of amazing in it's best of all worlds way. Condensed flavor, infused butter, tender corn...

                • EdF
                  EdF commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes it is!

                • HouseHomey
                  HouseHomey commented
                  Editing a comment
                  you guys are killing me, im starving now. Kathryn, you should try pork chops with that corn. : )
              • CaptainMike
                Club Member
                • Nov 2015
                • 2232
                • The Great State of Jefferson
                • Weber Summit Charcoal Grill w/SnS and DnG (Spartacus)
                  Old school big'ol Traeger w/Pro controller (Big Tex)
                  2 W22's w/SnS, DnG (1 black, 1 copper) (Minions 1 and 2)
                  20+ y/o many times rebuilt Weber Genesis w/GrillGrates (Gas Passer)
                  20 x 30 Santa Maria grill (Maria, duh)
                  Bradley cabinet smoker (Pepper Gomez)
                  36" Blackstone griddle (The Black Beauty)
                  Fireboard
                  Thermoworks Smoke and Thermapen.

                #13
                Ribeye

                Comment


                • shush
                  shush commented
                  Editing a comment
                  This is what I did... And my family loved them!

                • CaptainMike
                  CaptainMike commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I won't do em any other way now.
              • LangInGibsonia
                Club Member
                • Jan 2016
                • 134
                • Gibsonia, PA (suburban Pittsburgh)
                • Lang Riley

                  Suburban Pittsburgh, PA

                  22.5" Copper Weber Original Kettle Premium (2016)
                  Slow n Sear
                  Grill Grates
                  Drip n Griddle

                  Camp Chef 24" Smoke Vault.

                  Cheap Blue Ember 3 burner gas grill.

                  ET-732
                  Thermopen

                #14
                It's not fancy, but my absolute favorite thing to do in the water bath is chicken wings. 165° for an hour or three then onto the grill to crisp them up. God, are they good.

                Comment


                • LangInGibsonia
                  LangInGibsonia commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don't know if they are white or dark but I do know I prefer them cooked like dark meat. I like them 165°-175°. Anything under that and they are rubbery and slimy to me. And I certainly am not a "cook the hell out of it" kind of person. I love my medium rare beef and medium pork. It's mostly a texture thing for me with wings, thighs, and drums.

                • EdF
                  EdF commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I think these two points of view are the crux of the argument with my spousal unit. I consider wings white meat, and she wants them cooked like dark meat.

                • Potkettleblack
                  Potkettleblack commented
                  Editing a comment
                  White-Dark is arbitrary. Working vs non-working, so fast twitch vs slow twitch.

                  The breast on a chicken does F all, because they don't fly. The legs do all the work, as they are big walkers. They flap their wings and the wings have all sorts of collagen... it's complicated.
              • Georgia rookie 903
                Club Member
                • Sep 2017
                • 143
                • Augusta,Ga.

                #15
                tri-tip 3 hours then sear on the grill or in a pan on stove

                Comment


                • hoovarmin
                  hoovarmin commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That sounds Great, Georgia rookie 903, only tri-tip is hard to come by in these parts. But I'm going to ask the local butcher if he's got any coming in.

              Announcement

              Collapse

              Meat-Up in Memphis 2020

              Join us in Memphis for our Meat-Up! Space is limited to 400, secure your spot by booking early! Click here for details. (https://amazingribs.com/memphis2020)
              See more
              See less
              Working...
              X
              Meat-Up in Memphis

              T-Shirts & More T-Shirts & More
              Order men's and women's T-Shirts, Sweatshirts, Aprons, Mugs, Caps, Tote Bags, Flasks, and more, all imprinted with the Pitmaster Club logo. There's even a spiral bound journal where you can make notes on your cooks.

              Cool Embroidered Shirt Cool Embroidered Shirt
              This beautifully embroidered shirt is the same one Meathead wears in public and on TV. It's wash and wear and doesn't need ironing (really!), but it is a soft cottonlike feel. Choice of four colors and both men's and women's.

              Click here for more info.

              Support ARC

              Many merchants pay us a small referral fee when you click our links and purchase from them. On Amazon it works on everything from grills to diapers, they never tell us what you bought, and it has zero impact on the price you pay, but has a major impact on our ability to improve this site! And remember, we only recommend products we love. If you like AmazingRibs.com, please save this link and use it every time you go to Amazon.

              https://tinyurl.com/amazingribs

              BBQ Stars

              Spotlight

              These are not ads or paid placements. These Are Some Of Our Favorite Tools And Toys.

              These are products we have tested, won our top awards, and are highly recommend. Click here to read how we test, about our medals, and what they mean.

              Use our links when you buy things

              Many merchants pay us a small referral fee when you click our links and purchase from them. On Amazon it works on everything from grills to diapers, they never tell us what you bought, it has zero impact on the price you pay, but has a major impact on our ability to improve this site! If you like AmazingRibs.com, please save this link and use it every time you go to Amazon

              https://tinyurl.com/amazingribs

               


              Placeholder

              Surely you know somebody who loves outdoor cooking who deserves a gift for the holidays, birthday, anniversary, or just for being wonderful. There he is, right in the mirror! Here are our selections of best ideas, all Platinum or Gold Medalists, listed by price.

              Click here to see our list of Gold Medal Gifts


              Digital Thermometers Are Your Most Valuable Tool And Here's A Great Buy!

              maverick PT55 thermometer

              A good digital thermometer keeps you from serving dry overcooked food or dangerously undercooked food. They are much faster and much more accurate than dial thermometers. YOU NEED ONE!

              Click here for more info on the Maverick PT-55 Waterproof Instant-Read Thermometer Review shown above. It may be the best value in a thermometer out there


              If you have a Weber Kettle, you need the Slow 'N' Sear

              slow n sear

              The Slow 'N' Sear turns your grill into a first class smoker and also creates an extremely hot sear zone you can use to create steakhouse steaks.

              Click here for our article on this breakthrough tool


              Bring The Heat With Broil King Signet's Dual Tube Burners

              the good one grill

              The Broil King Signet 320 is a modestly priced, 3-burner gas grill that packs a lot of value and power under the hood. Broil King's proprietary, dual-tube burners get hot fast and are able to achieve high, searing temps that rival most comparatively priced gas grills. The quality cast aluminum housing carries a Limited Lifetime Warranty.

              Click here to read our complete review


              The Good-One Is A Superb Grill And A Superb Smoker All In One

              the good one grill

              The Good-One Open Range is a charcoal grill with an offset smoke chamber attached. It is dramatically different from a traditional offset smoker. The grill sits low in front and doubles as a firebox for the smoke chamber which is spliced on above and behind so it can work like a horizontal offset smoker only better. By placing the heat source behind and under the smokebox instead of off to the side, Open Range produces even temperature from left to right, something almost impossible to achieve with a standard barrel shaped offset.

              Click here to read our complete review


              Pit Barrel Cooker Smoker

              Griddle And Deep Fryer All In One

              The flat top does the burgers and the fryer does the fries. Use the griddle for bacon, eggs, and home fries. Or pancakes, fajitas, grilled cheese, you name it. Why stink up the house deep frying and spatter all over? Do your fried chicken and calamari outside. Blackstone's Rangetop Combo With Deep Fryer does it all. Plus it has a built in cutting board, garbage bag holder, and paper towel holder. An additional work table on the left side provides plenty of counter space.

              Click here to read our detailed review and to order


              Pit Barrel Cooker Smoker

              The Pit Barrel Cooker May Be Too Easy

              The PBC has a rabid cult following for good reason. It is absolutely positively without a doubt the best bargain on a smoker in the world. Period. This baby will cook circles around the cheap offset sideways barrel smokers in the hardware stores because temperature control is so much easier. Best of all, it is only $299 delivered to your door!

              Click here to read our detailed review and the raves from people who own them


              The Undisputed Champion!

              thermapen

              The Thermoworks Thermapen MK4 is considered by the pros, and our team, to be the single best instant read thermometer. Don't accept cheap substitutes.  Click here to read our test results and comprehensive review and why it won our Platinum Medal .


              Compact Powerful Sear Machine For Your Next Tailgater

              Placeholder

              Char-Broil's Grill2Go x200 is a super-portable, fun little sizzler made of heavy, rust-proof cast aluminum. The lid snaps shut. Grab the handle and you're off to the party! Char-Broil's TRU-Infrared design produces searing heat while reducing fuel consumption. A 16 ounce LP gas canister is enough to keep you flipping burgers for hours.

              Click here to read our detailed review and to order


              The Cool Kettle With The Hinged Hood We Always Wanted

              NK-22-Ck Grill

              Their NK22CK-C Charcoal Kettle Grill puts a few spins on the familiar kettle design. In fact, the hinged lid with a handle on the front, spins in a rotary motion 180 degrees. It's hard to beat a Weber kettle, but Napoleon holds its own and adds some unique features to make the NK22CK-C a viable alternative.

              Click here for more about what makes this grill special


              Placeholder

              G&F Suede Welder's Gloves

              Heat Resistant Gloves With Extra Long Sleeves Hold The Hot Stuff

              If you're using oven mitts at the grill, it's time to trade up. Say hello to these suede welder's gloves. They're heat resistant enough to handle hot grill grates, and flexible enough to handle tongs. The extra long sleeves even let you reach deep into the firebox to move hot logs without getting burned. Our Fave.

              Click here to read our detailed review

              Click here to order from Amazon


              GrillGrates Take Gas Grills To The Infrared Zone

              grill grates

              GrillGrates(TM) amplify heat, prevent flareups, make flipping foods easier, keep small foods from committing suicide, kill hotspots, are easier to clean, flip over to make a fine griddle, and can be easily removed and moved from one grill to another. You can even throw wood chips, pellets, or sawdust between the rails and deliver a quick burst of smoke to whatever is above. Every gas grill needs them.

              Click here for more about what makes these grates so special


              kareubequ bbq smoker

              Our Favorite Backyard Smoker

              The amazing Karubecue is the most innovative smoker in the world. The quality of meat from this machine is astonishing. At its crux is a patented firebox that burns logs above the cooking chamber and sucks heat and extremely clean blue smoke into the thermostat controlled oven. It is our favorite smoker, period.

              Click here for our review of this superb smoker


              Masterbuilt MPS 340/G ThermoTemp XL Propane Smoker

              masterbuilt gas smoker

              The First Propane Smoker With A Thermostat Makes This Baby Foolproof

              Set ThermoTemp's dial from 175° to 350°F and the thermostat inside will adjust the burner just like an indoor kitchen oven. All you need to do is add wood to the tray above the burner to start smokin'.

              Click here to read our detailed review


              Professional Steakhouse Knife Set

              masterbuilt gas smoker

              Our founder, Meathead, wanted the same steak knives used by steakhouses such as Peter Luger, Smith & Wollensky, Morton's, Kobe Club, Palm, and many others. So he located the manufacturer and had them stamp our name on some. They boast pointed, temper-ground, serrated, high-carbon stainless-steel, half-tang blades with excellent cutting edge ability. The beefy hardwood handle provides a comfortable grip secured by three hefty rivets. He has machine washed his more than 100 times. They have never rusted and they stay shiny without polishing. Please note that we do not make, sell, or distribute these knives, they just engrave them with our name.

              Click here to read our detailed review and to order


              PK 360 grill

              Is This Superb Charcoal Grill A Kamado Killer?

              The PK-360, with 360 square inches of cooking space, this rust free, cast aluminum charcoal grill is durable and easy to use. Four-way venting means it's easy to set up for two zone cooking with more control than single vent Kamado grills. It is much easier to set up for 2-zone cooking than any round kamado. Beautifully designed and completely portable. Meathead says it is his preferrred grill.

              Click here to read our detailed review of the PK 360

              Click here to order it direct from PK and get a special deal for AmazingRibs.com readers only


              Fireboard: The Ultimate Top Of The Line BBQ Thermometer

              fireboard bbq thermometer

              With the ability to monitor up to six temperatures simultaneously with either Bluetooth or Wifi on your mobile phone, tablet, or computer, Fireboard is the best digital thermometer we’ve tested.

              Click here to read our detailed review


              Finally, A Great Portable Pellet Smoker

              Green Mountain Davey Crockett Grill

              Green Mountain's portable Davy Crockett Pellet Smoker is one mean tailgating and picnic machine. But it's also gaining popularity with people who want to add a small, set it and forget it pellet smoker to their backyard arsenal. And with their WiFi capabilities you can control and monitor Davy Crocket from your smart phone or laptop.

              Click here to read our detailed review and to order