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Big step forward on 2nd rib run; many pics & some new questions

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    Big step forward on 2nd rib run; many pics & some new questions

    I took some lessons learned from my first rib cook in the new Bronco and hit most of my targets on the second run. A couple of friends up the road had a sample and said, "Hands down"best ribs we’ve ever had, restaurant or family.”

    That’s rewarding, but I know there’s room for improvement, and I was a little unprepared for the results after making a few changes this time around. I’ll go over the main changes I made, and then put some questions to you seasoned smokers.
    Skip the small print for time if need be.

    What I did differently
    1. Used two SLC racks instead of the one BBR


    2. Shook a more generous coating of MMD on ‘em
    I felt there was room to add flavor last time, so I went heavier. Wish I had a picture, but I probably put on 70-100% more rub on these. I also got hold of some dark brown sugar this time (not light), which may have made more difference than I expected—see "Questions" below.
    3. Racks were shorter...and didn’t burn at the ends
    As cut by my grocer (I assume), these were about three ribs shorter than the BBR I did last time, and didn’t come close to touching the handle of the charcoal grate. Also no dried out crispy part at the bottom—so one big issue averted!
    4. Used bricks for S-shaped fuse to engage drippings
    I took the advice about drippings from jfmorris and fzxdoc, but used bricks to contain a fuse rather than a minion, since I had run well into the 300s doing that. I heard many drippings land either on coals or bricks, and saw the evidence later. The bricks were probably under 50°F initially and stole some energy as I tried to get temps up. It was the same 56° outside as last cook and not wet, so I suspect that’s what happened. I lit 15 more coals to add to the 18 starters. Initial snake had 60-65 unlit and needed to be re-fueled back the other direction after about four hours.
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    5. Hung probes on opposite sides of cooker, not upper and lower ends
    Rather than dodge the fire to keep the tip from burning, since these racks were shorter, I kept the racks in place again this cook, and tried to study the "moving" heat source. I placed the probes above the "head" and "tail" of my charcoal snake, hoping to learn whether I would get even heat on the ribs over the course of the cook. What you’ll see graphed below is a bit more combustion and liquid dynamics than I’m ready to analyze!
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    6. Aimed around 250° instead of 225
    I did this mainly to save a little time, and because jfmorris and others have indicated success. I would have guessed the probe near the coals coming alive would read higher, but it seemed to work the other way around (I’m sure I didn’t confuse those two probes—red and yellow in my graph and on the silicone rings in the picture). I was reasonably happy with the average of the two probes and the averages of each probe throughout the cook, though I didn’t always know how to respond when the readings diverged dramatically. Click to make it full screen.
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    4 hours, 36 min time cooker was above 225°
    5 hrs, 5 min total time ribs were in
    244° Average for yellow channel, initially over unlit coals
    254° Average for red channel, near the poured coals

    7. Added 2nd chunk late...after two hours
    I used the same 8 oz total wood, but basically forgot to add the second chunk early in the cook. When I did add the second, the first wasn’t totally charred over, so maybe I’m going about this the wrong way. I did notice when I opened the lid at the end, there was quite a thick cloud of smoke—more than I remember at any point in the previous cook.

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    Bend test after two hours, right before adding 2nd chunk. Bark would be much darker at finish.

    One thing I did not do is heed the advice about hanging a second hook from the first—and almost paid for it, as you can see from the hook that’s barely still in the rear "green" rack at five hours.
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    The "green" rack read 201.5 Thermapen and very similar with Fireboard. All were very juicy and tender, so much so that I forgot to take a picture of the bones! They were pretty clean, though, and would come away with a little twist in many places.
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    We all pigged out happily on these ribs, but I have to admit: there was a sweetness about these that was a little too much for me—and I like sweet stuff as a rule...

    Questions I have about the results
    1. Were the racks I got too fatty? What do I need to learn about selection, trimming, etc?

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    2. Is the bark so much darker mainly because I used more of the sugary MMD? Did dark vs light brown sugar play a role? Or is it more that I let temps get higher this time? Maybe the smoke was too heavy for too long with 2nd chunk added late? Compare...
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    These are my previous ribs' bark, which I admittedly called done when they were not quite.

    3. Is the overly sweet taste owing to anything other than too much rub? Maybe the dark brown sugar? Is this a characteristic of SLC? or of well done ribs w/ melted fats?

    4. Is there a way to keep a thin layer underneath the bark from getting overdone and being hard to chew? At times, the bark/underlayer didn’t want to be cut or bitten through, and took away from the enjoyment of the chew. Again, I’d love to achieve this without wrapping.

    5. Can I always expect to get a gradient of doneness over the length of a hanging rack? Some have said not to worry about flipping ends, but others say it’s the best trick. I realized the liabilities of the Thermapen in a rib rack, but tested several places, and these were pretty consistent readings for the "blue" rack”…

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    At the bottom… in the middle… at the top

    6. I know air moves quite a bit inside a smoker, but why did I apparently get higher temps on the side of the cooker where the fire wasn’t actively burning?

    Many thanks to those who made it all the way through—you were probably just over five hours reading it, too!


    #2
    Congrats on what comes across as good and enjoyable time experimenting and eating.
    I to look forward to the opinions that will be shared on your questions.

    Comment


      #3
      geoNaCl it looks like you had much better results with this cook! I would eat those ribs ANY day!

      I'll try and answer a few questions...

      1. Those racks of SLC's do look a bit more fatty than the Smithfields I've bought at the grocery store or Costco, or the spare ribs I've purchased at Sam's club. However, did you notice the fat when eating the ribs, or did it all render? It probably helped keep things more moist, but if you had big blobs of fat that you didn't want to eat in the final results, I would look for leaner ribs nexts time.

      2. Sugar as a rub component does tend to increase bark, and sugar can scorch if taken too hot, making it darken. This certainly could have contributed to the darkness. I doubt whether dark versus light brown sugar would make this difference however, and MMD typically has white sugar and brown - I use whichever brown is in the pantry (light or dark). As far as smoke being too heavy - I think you are missing the point that in a drum cooker, the fat dripping on the charcoal produces a "smoke fog" reducing the need for as much wood in the cook. This is probably what you were seeing when you opened it up later in the cook and saw all the smoke. It was vaporized drippings. This is something the PBC folk talk about.

      3. The sweetness is likely due to more sugar in the rub than you are used to. I've personally never had sweet SLC/spare/BB ribs unless I used a sweet rub or sauce.

      4. Not sure what to say about this one. The only way I know to combat that is to wrap the ribs in foil during the later part of the cook, effectively braising them, and losing some bark in the process. I used to do that with the 3-2-1 method of cooking ribs, but I just smoke the entire time unwrapped now. Use a better knife when cutting the ribs apart maybe, and it won't be as noticeable?

      5. I cannot comment on a gradient of doneness in a barrel cooker, but do know that in my offset or Weber Kettle when smoking, I have a vertical temperature gradient. The top of the kettle will be 50 to 75 degrees higher than the grate level at times. I see less of a difference in my offset, but it is still higher at the dome than at the grate. That said, the convection currents inside a barrel are supposed to even it out, and based on your temperature probe, that seems to be the case. I would not put a lot of stock in taking a temperature reading on ribs, and would go by how they feel and look. It's too hard to measure accurately in a thin piece of meat with bones a 1/4" inch to either side of the probe.

      6. Convection would be the reason I would expect. Heat rising from the fire, hitting the lid, and circulating down, swirling around, etc. I wouldn't worry about it too much, as it should even out across the cooker and over time.

      In the end, go by the edible results, and that your friends said they were the best ribs they had ever had! That is what counts the most - the results.

      Comment


      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks! Ran out of time yesterday... 1) no blobs, really. It rendered, so I guess that's answered. 2) Everyone is confirming instinct: too much sugar/rub in general. Also going to lean into the drum-drippings thing and not worry about smoke levels. 4) Gonna test whether so much rub and temp/time led to dark bark AND some toughness. May be a pretty small adjustment that's needed in the end. 5/6) Got it. Not gonna forget to enjoy the ribs! But the toys & testing keep me interested for 5 hours! lol

      #4
      @jmorris answered the technical questions and they are fantastic. Good job, jmorris! Like him, I will wait for the PBC folks to weigh in on cooking tips. What I was happy about in this thread was that you kept going and your guests gave you genuine accolades. People don't say "best ever" unless they mean it. They say "This was really nice" or "You did a really good job". When you get to the point that you are asking questions about details instead of what you did wrong you know you are doing really well. Your photos are fantastic as are your questions. Good job.

      My questions back would be: Did you let the ribs rest for a bit before serving and cutting? I do. Did you take the membrane off of the back - I do. Nobody has ever really convinced me with science why you have to, but I do. When I go higher in temp in my cookers I find that my normal time and texture get really messed up. So I have found with what I have now I know what I am doing. If I bought a new cooker I would basically have to start from scratch with those factors. It sounds like you are still in that phase and yet your guests say you hit a home run. Great job.

      Comment


      • jfmorris
        jfmorris commented
        Editing a comment
        I used to cook with the membrane on as I knew no better, and I can attest to the fact that removing it improves the pork rib experience measurably. It’s tough and papery when you cook and spices and smoke don’t penetrate the back side of the ribs with it on,

      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the reinforcement! You make a great point about the "best ribs." I did end up letting the ribs sit 15-20 mins before cutting into them. And the membrane was off when I unwrapped these.

      #5
      In my PBC, the ribs never get flipped topside down partway through. Like you, I either buy racks that clear the coals by 4-5 inches or, unlike you, cut long racks in half.

      There's a lot of swirling heat in the PBC (see the photo on the PBC site or on the AR PBC review), but that does not mean that the temperature gradient is uniform. I always hang two ambient probes, opposite sides of the barrel, to help me keep an eye on the temps and to tell me to keep my mitts off trying to goose/ungoose temps during a cook.

      For some cooks, the side with the vent starts out hotter by as much as 40° or more, and then the side opposite catches up. Sometimes it's vice-versa. Other times the vent side slowly decreases while the opposite side increases. Or vice versa. It depends on what is hanging where, to some extent, but the temperature distribution does not always follow logic. It's best not to sweat it. Just throw the ribs in and let the cooker do its thing.

      Kathryn

      Edited to add: I don't use the snakey minion method; I use the pour-lit-coals-over-a-basket-of-unlit coals minion method, so YMMV.
      Last edited by fzxdoc; November 7, 2019, 10:50 AM.

      Comment


      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        I hadn't thought about the vent, which is interesting, but probably not a factor in the Bronco, as the intake feeds right through center bottom and through several ports running all around a riser ring...then over the sides of the charcoal grate. Took me a second to figure out how the thing breathed when I unboxed it. All vacuum from the fire's point of view, I guess.

        The middle portion of cook prob shows heat coming off the 2nd chunk, near that probe. Didn't think of that 'til later. Thanks!

      #6
      Just a couple of observations;

      1) I agree much better job this time. I also like your thorough analysis and presentation.

      2) You mentioned shorter racks, you might also want to try cooking half racks of ribs that are higher up in your barrel away from the direct heat source. That might help with your temp gradient worries, although like others mentioned I don't think that's a big deal.

      3) Although the snake or fuse method is a good way to control long burns, what you lack is having a large live central lit coal area onto which your grease and rendered fat can drip. That's the real magic behind vertical barrel cooking, the "fog" that's created by that interaction. Try doing the minion method where you have an outer full ring of unlit charcoal and begin my lighting a half chimney (or even less), dumping it in the center. That may give you a better drip result and will equally control your burn, diffusion rate and temps. I cook at a steady fan controlled 275* and have had zero problems in that regard.

      4) Agree with you that the sugar content is probably why you have a darker bark. I use a variety of rubs and found that using a simply pepper and garlic combo, after salt brining of course, won't yield that dark a bark. Instead you end up with a rich mahogany color. You also taste the meat, and not the char. If you want a sweet finish, try glazing them at the end with a sweet/heat sauce, let it tack up for 15-20 minutes, then pull them. Best of both worlds !!

      5) Ditch the Smithfield brand of ribs. I know they are popular and available virtually everywhere but they're commodity pork. Lots of fat, inconsistent thickness, just not a quality product. Consider a heritage pork source, there is a big difference.

      I admire your zeal and attitude toward perfecting your rib cooks. You're doing great in my estimation !!

      Ribs tacking up with a freshly applied Raspberry Chipotle sauce;

      Click image for larger version  Name:	Pork-Beef Ribs 09.jpg Views:	0 Size:	1.18 MB ID:	766160

      Comment


      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        I'll think seriously about giving minion a try with meat on there. I guess I'm just attached to the ole "low and slow" magic that Meathead and others have long held out there.

        The ribs I got were packaged by my grocery's meat guys, and honestly, I haven't asked into all the details yet. I just know I highly enjoy their ribeyes, chuck for burgers, etc. So I wanted to start there and then, yes, I am very curious to compare heritage meat once I dial a few things in and find a source for that!

      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        Also, I know I'd enjoy the ribs in that picture!

        I think I just lose a sense for the finer pork and smokey flavors once I sauce my barbecue. And I realized there was plenty I could adjust with the rub and what's underneath...The purist in me coming out.

      • Troutman
        Troutman commented
        Editing a comment
        Both the snake and the minion methods are low and slow, controlled cooking methods. It's just a bit more exposure occurs with the circular versus the serpentine configuration, thus more "fog" generation.

      #7
      My $0.02

      1. Those ribs don't look excessively fatty but I would probably trim some of those bigger knobs of fat off, especially from the back side. If I find some really thick layers of fat, I usually trim but its minimal

      2. Its not clear from your write-up if the your comment on the color of the bark was about it being or tasting burnt or just a visual issue. I think the color is mostly about the amount of rub (and not light vs. dark brown sugar) and perhaps you left it on a bit long but doesn't seem burnt based on your pic.

      3. The sweet taste is due to the sugar in the rub and that your personal preference is that MMD rub is too sweet for you. So next time, you can either adjust for your own taste by reducing the sugar or increasing the paprika or adding cayenne, etc. or try to find another rub that is more aligned with your personal preferences.

      4. I also think the crust may be due to a combination of 1) the sugar in the rub and 2) the amount of rub you put on. With 2x more rub, I would speculate that you almost created a caramel like layer that then got overcooked. Something like that has happened to me in the past when I was playing around with char siu ribs. Glazed the ribs a few too many times and started too early, so got a thicker crust than I planned. It was the only time that happened and the meat was cooked well, so I think it was a combination of the sugar and the time.

      5. I never temp ribs, they are so thin that it is hard to get a good/accurate reading and I don't worry about it. I do the bend and/or the toothpick test, so if the meat feels tender and the bark is good, I am good and don't bother checking temps. I do the same with the PBC temps too. I pretty much stopped checking the air temps and just let it do its thing. The only time I keep an eye on the air temp inside the cooker is for longer cooks just to make sure I don't run out of fuel.

      I should also add on the PBC, I hook the ribs about 3-4 ribs down to give extra clearance at the bottom. The top few ribs flop over but that hasn't affected the cooking of the ribs -- just make the whole rack a little less pretty when they come off the smoker as they rack keeps that shape! The pic below was my last rib cook (don't mind the pale uncooked wings, I had just put them on when I snapped the pic)

      Last edited by shify; November 7, 2019, 01:46 PM.

      Comment


      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        On the bark, I don't think it was burned. It was a visual issue for me. That mahogany is so appetizing..

        The first rubs weren't too sweet, and I think I will back off the rub next time, but also eventually try some other rub ideas.

        On the crust, your comments are definitely helpful, and I think that's probably it. Thanks!

      • HawkerXP
        HawkerXP commented
        Editing a comment
        I do just like #5 on my PBC.

      #8
      So, to jfmorris and any who have cooked in a barrel, would it be worthwhile to try cutting back from 8 oz to maybe 4 of wood, and let the drippings do the rest on the coals? (Like you said above, I was thinking the sugar content was chiefly responsible for the dark color—and the killer sweetness.)

      Comment


      • pkadare
        pkadare commented
        Editing a comment
        That is a flavour question and any answers you get are going to be really subjective.

      #9
      Usually for a rib cook, I use 4 to 6 oz wood, geoNaCl .

      About wanting low temps, Meathead and many other experts say that 225° is pretty much a thing of the past, unless you enjoy smoking at that temp. 250+ will give you great ribs as well.

      I do think you're limiting yourself and denying enhanced flavor/smokiness by using that snake method. If you've not done whole or half chickens, I wonder whether all the moisture that drips from them will douse Mr. Snake during the cook. It certainly douses portions of my filled basket from time to time throughout the cook.

      That said, if the snake/fuse method is the one recommended by the Bronco vendor, then carry on!

      Kathryn
      Last edited by fzxdoc; November 7, 2019, 03:13 PM.

      Comment


      • jfmorris
        jfmorris commented
        Editing a comment
        I second anything Kathryn has to say. She is the queen of barrel cooking in my opinion, and knows more than I do for sure!

      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        Not a Bronco guideline, just my $1.68 idea...

        I hear you on the minion, and it's gonna get its chance!

      #10
      For your tough bark layer issue, you might want to go back to 225 in the pit, or at least less than you had in this cook. Also, you may have taken the ribs too high. I think 190-195 is plenty done and never have any chewy areas in my ribs, which I never wrap. I don't have a barrel cooker, but I do hang ribs in a propane cabinet. I don't experience any noticeable variation in doneness across the rack.

      Comment


      • geoNaCl
        geoNaCl commented
        Editing a comment
        This is interesting, Dewesq55, and I now have to ...pit... your advice against that of the good doctor! Maybe before I go chasing 225 again for the cooker, I will try to pull the next ribs a little sooner. After all, you describe getting exactly what I want—not too chewy, and succulent success without wrapping!

        (OK, I added succulent...)

      #11
      Something I will say is this. I've been cooking ribs for 30-something years, ever since I moved to Alabama at age 23, and had to cook for myself. Started on a gas grill, then direct grilled over charcoal on the big offset/grill my dad gave me later, then smoked on the offset, and now my favorite rib cooker is my kettle+SnS (its more hands off). I still use the offset in smoker mode if I need to cook more than 5 racks of ribs, or want to cook spare ribs versus my usual baby back. The offset will take 6 to 8 racks laid flat, or I have a rack my Dad made that will stand a dozen racks on edge with pretty decent spacing between them.

      Oh - back to what I was going to say, now that I've distracted myself.

      I never in my life have tried to monitor the internal temperature of ribs, or bother checking it with an instant read for that matter. It's one of the few meats I tend to cook to time, based on cooker temperature. About the only test I perform is the bend test, once I start hitting the 4 or 5 hour mark. Even with an instant read like my Thermapen, you are talking a thin piece of meat, and the tendency is to see hot spots if you touch a bone, or poke it past the center of the meat, and see a cooler than actual temperature, as your probe tip is now coming close to the back side of the ribs. I've just never found it necessary. You are cooking the ribs WAY past the safe temperature for pork, and its all about time and tenderness and bark, and you gotta feel that. Probing for feel, not temperature, could be good, but the bend test usually tells me what I need to know. When the ribs start coming apart or cracking on the bend test, you know they are done.

      Comment


        #12
        Based on my PBC experience... (hoping to unbox my Bronco this weekend and season it!)

        I agree with not worrying about temping your ribs, jfmorris nailed it. Very soon you'll get used to the look and feel, specifically the pull back, and know when they're done.

        Like other barrel heads here, I use less wood in my PBC vs. say my kettle w/ SNS. Give it a kiss of smoke, but let that fog do its magic, particularly if you're not using the deflector (I'm curious how MUCH of an impact that deflector will have on the fog, its got to have some, but I'm also pretty excited about a more even heating inside the barrel, suspect I'll use it more when cooking on the grate and not when hanging meat but we'll see - lots of testing to do!)

        Related to that, I agree with some of the other comments re: the snake method in the basket. I do plan to try different lighting methods, but hadn't considered that one - I also think it'd limit some of that smoke fog and likely isn't necessary. Here's a video I found online from OKJ re: lighting techniques for the Bronco for different types of cooks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgMV3SyPb9k (FWIW I do think he uses too much wood) I still plan on using Kathryn's PBC lighting method for when I want a hotter cook for poultry, or if I happen to use it as a grill.

        Love seeing your posts on this early journey, you've got me PUMPED to get mine rolling!!!

        Comment


          #13
          Hi - First time poster with a question. I was to smoke four racks of baby backs today for a dinner party but the host has asked if I can delay the cook 24 hours. If so, the ribs will be in refrigerator with rub (no salt in rub but did a two hour dry brine lightly salted before applying the rub). Is there a problem with the rub sitting on the ribs for a full 24 hours before the cook?

          Comment


          • holehogg
            holehogg commented
            Editing a comment
            You good to go.

          • HawkerXP
            HawkerXP commented
            Editing a comment
            Show be fine.

          #14
          Apologies if this was wrong place to post this. As I said, I’m a rookie!

          Comment

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