First shot at high-elevation spare ribs not quite as desired...

[SpeedyB]

Sunday I took my first crack at some St Louis ribs. I watched several videos and read several posts prior. Here is the overview of my process and the outcome:

1. 2.8 lb slab
2. I trimmed up the ribs but left the tips on (spares actually I suppose)
3. There was hardly any membrane on the bottom. I tried and tried with a butter knife but could not get much, if any, to come off and could not visibly see it in many places. The butcher stated that many times the membrane is very thin and would just cook off so I ran with it
4. Let sit to room temp then coated with mustard and seasoned with some Killer Hogs rub
5. Made up 2 water pans to sit on top of the grill grate (limited on space) and sat a stainless rack on top of the pans with the ribs - meat up. Inside the pans mixed water, apple juice and apple cider vinegar
6. Went 1 hour fluctuating between 230-285 (40 degree day with strong winds and no smoke stack to protect from winds on the Tailgater) and then an additional 1.5 hrs averaging about 230. Total time of 2.5 hrs smoking
7. Spritzed with water and apple cider vinegar twice at 1:45 and 2:15 hrs
8. Pull at 2.5 hrs and foiled (quickly to avoid much heat loss). Put meat-side down with brown sugar, honey and butter and wrapped fairly tight. Put in oven at 230.
9. At the wrap stage, there was easily already 1/4" of bone showing on most ribs already
10. Baked in oven for 3 more hrs, checking regularly. At the 6 hr total time mark I checked and some parts tested very well with toothpick while others still grabbed, however the meat had shrunk well up the bone and there was easily 1/2"-5/8" exposed on many bones.
11. Sauced and ran another 40 minutes
12. Tested the meat and much of it was fairly tough still. The very top layer tasted tender as I would have hoped but the lower portion was tough. Not necessarily super dry, but a bit tough and not as moist as I'd hoped especially the membrane between the bones and meat.
13. With a bend test, I was maybe at 40 degrees bend - one end bent more than the other but really no breakage in the bark
14. The bones were so exposed on the underside that I could easily pull several off the meat. The shroud around the bones where it meets the meat was very firm and tough on most of the ribs and I had to eat around it.
15. I know to expect 20% longer cook times but at 230-250* average I thought 6.5 hours would suffice

Anyhow, maybe overly detailed but I would request your comments.

Did I foil too long? Why did the meat shrink so much? Would 6.75 hours be inadequate at elevation on a 2.8 lb slab at a 240 degree average?

Next experiments will be - one with water pan at high temps for shorter time and another one at more of a 3-2-2 process.

[dsohmer]

Just to be clear, were you cooking on a Traeger Tailgater Pellet Grill?

They look really good.

[SpeedyB]

Yes that is correct. Good to know they were aesthetically on point.

[BRic]

Strong winds can cause all kinds of problems . try smoking them at 250 f next time . They look good .

[SpeedyB]

Yeah I ended up building a wind blocker behind the vent openings which helped. I want to try a rack at 275 one time to see if the decreased cook time reduces dryness.

[RonB]

Every piece of meat is different. It's done when it's done, and it can't tell time. Sometimes you can cook two of the same item and they will be ready at different times. Ya just gotta roll with it.

[SpeedyB]

True Ron. I wasnt using thermos on this one but did test with toothpicks. Can you really overcook ribs? Would they theoretically just fall apart?

[RonB]

Yes, they can fall off the bone, and they can dry out. Ya just gotta watch 'em close...

[SpeedyB]

Got ya, thanks!

[barelfly]

What elevation are you. I’m familiar with golden, CO but not completely. I live in NM as described does my dad. I’m at 5300’ and he is at 7200’. I smoke baby backs for about 5-6 hours at 225* and if I remember correctly that’s what my dad does. We have Smokin-it smokers, but even on my kettle that’s what I go with.

only thing I’d say to do is let them go, unchecked until a specific time point. Don’t open the oven or foil, so they keep the moisture locked in.

Like others said, could have been the particular rack you picked up. But they do look good. Hope it works out on the next smoke.

[SpeedyB]

Thanks.

OK so to summarize you do use a water pan below the meat and you also, typically, do not wrap correct?

And no spritzing?

[barelfly]

Take a look at Smokin-it smokers, then you will see that my method is different because the smoker is vertical. The smoke box sits above an element, so having a water pan adjacent to the box doesn’t interfere with heat. Meat or ribs go above at the top. And no, I don’t wrap, I felt it didn’t really give me the type of texture I wanted, but again, my smoker seals well so it keeps a fair amount of moisture.

[barelfly]

And no spritzing. Again, I don’t need this in my smoker. I’ll sauce at the end occasionally, but I prefer dry ribs and allow people to sauce based on the flavor profile they want. I serve with 3-4 types of sauce.

I try to go by the if your looking, you ain’t cooking technique. So minimal opening of any cooker.

[jfmorris]

The ribs look good - sorry they didn't taste as good as they look.

My only comment is that you cooked in foil far longer than I've ever heard of with ribs. The traditional method that involves wrapping in foil is called 3-2-1, as with spares or St. Louis, you smoke for 3 hours, wrap for 2 hours, then finish unwrapped for the final hour in the smoker, and that is when you apply any sauce. If doing baby backs, do 2-2-1. Today I don't wrap my ribs at all, and just let them ride on the smoker for the full 5-6 hours, and if saucing, do it in the final 30 minutes. I used to toss them over to the gas grill to put some char on, but don't bother with that either anymore - why dirty up two grills!

Good luck next time.

[SpeedyB]

Got ya. On the flats I cooked I did wrap at right around 165 as well. Interestingly the first one I did I had to leave the house toward the end of the cook so I stuck it in the oven at 175 for a couple hours in foil and it turned out more moist than the other. I do need to let them rest longer than I have though.

[jfmorris]

SpeedyB yes the rest is important. When I finish the cook, I let my brisket rest in the foil for at least 2 hours, sometimes longer, either in a 170F oven, or in a cooler, covered with towels to help retain the heat.

[SpeedyB]

Copy. Thank you.

[wrgilb]

As has been already stated, no two racks are the same. Looking at your ribs, you have ribs from an older pig, as evidenced by the width of the bones on the left side in the pic. This may make them tougher.

[jfmorris]

Good point. Sometimes it’s a crap shoot as to whether a roast or steak or whatever you pick up is gonna be good or not.

[SpeedyB]

That is very helpful thank you! Based on feedback I've received I began to wonder if it was more the slab then the cook process

[Rod]

Did you dry brine? If not, then try that and skip the water pans. Maybe they create too much of a heat barrier. Can't really speak to your elevation. However, you can always try this method.

[SpeedyB]

Great suggestion Rod! What would you prescribe for the brining process?

[klflowers]

+1 on the blasphemy ribs.

[CaptainMike]

I suspect the pans. Being so close there's likely a little steam effect and heat shielding. I live at 4000' and cook ribs regularly in the pellet pooper, in all kinds of weather, and they always come out fine. I generally run at 230-250. Sometimes I wrap, more often I don't, and I never spritz. If you choose to foil, do so after the bark sets and with about 1/2c apple juice, 2-3 hours into your cook. As Rod stated above, be sure to dry brine at least 4-6 hours (overnight is better) before your cook. BTW, welcome to the Pit from The Great State of Jefferson!

[SpeedyB]

Alright Mike, this makes sense. I'll test a couple different processes and report back.

Much appreciated!

[SpeedyB]

jfmorris that makes sense. I'm gonna take a shot straight smoked next go round with a dry brine but no spritzing, no pan and no wrapping.

[jfmorris]

SpeedyB the type of rib matters too. I've done a smoke where I did 3 racks of Saint Louis (trimmed spare ribs) side by side with 3 racks of baby back or loin back ribs, and my family hands down prefers the baby back ribs. The spares were a little tougher I think.

[Rod]

SpeedyB Dry brining is just sprinkling some kosher salt on the meat and letting sit overnight. See this link here for the article on this.

[SpeedyB]

Oh geez, okay that makes sense. A good friend of mine from Brazil taught me Brazilian BBQ. They use large rock salt on the meat as the cook to seal in the moisture. Now I can connect the dots, thanks Rod

[MBMorgan]

Sunday I took my first crack at some St Louis ribs. I watched several videos and read several posts prior. Here is the overview of my process and the outcome:

1. 2.8 lb slab
2. I trimmed up the ribs but left the tips on (spares actually I suppose)
3. There was hardly any membrane on the bottom. I tried and tried with a butter knife but could not get much, if any, to come off and could not visibly see it in many places. The butcher stated that many times the membrane is very thin and would just cook off so I ran with it
4. Let sit to room temp then coated with mustard and seasoned with some Killer Hogs rub
5. Made up 2 water pans to sit on top of the grill grate (limited on space) and sat a stainless rack on top of the pans with the ribs - meat up. Inside the pans mixed water, apple juice and apple cider vinegar
6. Went 1 hour fluctuating between 230-285 (40 degree day with strong winds and no smoke stack to protect from winds on the Tailgater) and then an additional 1.5 hrs averaging about 230. Total time of 2.5 hrs smoking
7. Spritzed with water and apple cider vinegar twice at 1:45 and 2:15 hrs
8. Pull at 2.5 hrs and foiled (quickly to avoid much heat loss). Put meat-side down with brown sugar, honey and butter and wrapped fairly tight. Put in oven at 230.
9. At the wrap stage, there was easily already 1/4" of bone showing on most ribs already
10. Baked in oven for 3 more hrs, checking regularly. At the 6 hr total time mark I checked and some parts tested very well with toothpick while others still grabbed, however the meat had shrunk well up the bone and there was easily 1/2"-5/8" exposed on many bones.
11. Sauced and ran another 40 minutes
12. Tested the meat and much of it was fairly tough still. The very top layer tasted tender as I would have hoped but the lower portion was tough. Not necessarily super dry, but a bit tough and not as moist as I'd hoped especially the membrane between the bones and meat.
13. With a bend test, I was maybe at 40 degrees bend - one end bent more than the other but really no breakage in the bark
14. The bones were so exposed on the underside that I could easily pull several off the meat. The shroud around the bones where it meets the meat was very firm and tough on most of the ribs and I had to eat around it.
15. I know to expect 20% longer cook times but at 230-250* average I thought 6.5 hours would suffice

Anyhow, maybe overly detailed but I would request your comments.

Did I foil too long? Why did the meat shrink so much? Would 6.75 hours be inadequate at elevation on a 2.8 lb slab at a 240 degree average?

Next experiments will be - one with water pan at high temps for shorter time and another one at more of a 3-2-2 process.

A few points:

• I always go with Costco back loin ribs instead of spares. Just a personal preference. Normally the membrane is already removed (bonus!).
• I generally dry brine overnight in the fridge.
• I do not allow them to come up to room temp. Smoke adheres best to cold meat and letting them come up to room temp can be dangerous from a food-safety perspective.
• I don't bother with mustard coating (although there's nothing wrong with that). If they're too dry for the rub to stick, I might just spritz them with water and apply the rub. These days, about the only rub I use on pork ribs is Meathead's Memphis Dust (MMD).
• I never use a water pan. FWIW, if you do want to use a water pan, just put water in it. Adding apple juice, vinegar, wine, beer, etc., really does little or nothing.
• I had a Pit Barrel Cooker (PBC) for several years prior to getting my Grilla pellet smoker, so I'm used to cooking at higher temps than the very fashionable 225 F. I generally shoot for 250 or 275.
• I spritz with water every 30 minutes. I don't like the idea of spritzing with anything that's going to gunk up the smoker ... so it's pure water. One nice feature of the Original Grilla is that the door rotates. I can crack it no more than an inch for spritzing and don't have to worry much about heat loss.
• I never wrap ribs. I just leave them on the Grilla until they probe tender everywhere and the internal temp (IT) is at least 190 everywhere. If I find even a single spot that is below 190, they're not done (collagen and connective tissue will not render below 190). I do look for the rib bones to be exposed ... but I depend on probe temp and tenderness as my primary indicators of doneness.
• Once they are just barely done, I sauce and let them go for another 30 minutes or so.
• I do not rely on the "bend test". On back loin ribs there's too much loin meat for it work reliably.
• I don't worry about altitude. Cook times simply don't matter (except for meal planning purposes) ... just IT and probe tenderness. Remember that water boils at about 200 F where we live and you're not trying to get your ribs over 200 ... just somewhere above 190. Altitude does matter for brisket, though. Tight and heavy wrapping with added liquid is crucial to getting the meat above 200. Fortunately, we're not brisket lovers (blasphemy, I know) so for me, it's a moot point.
• You didn't say (unless I missed it) how and where you were measuring your cooking temp. It's crucial that you measure your temp at the same place in the smoker that your meat is cooking. I'm not familiar with the Traeger Tailgater, but there's a very good chance that your grate-level temp is very different than what the built-in probe is measuring.

Here's a few pics of some fairly recent (before it got too cold) ribs on the Grilla:

[SpeedyB]

Beautiful Morgan, this is just what I needed. Those ribs look fantastic and I will overlook your brisket bias because you're so helpful 😎

I did have two different thermometers inside the grill with remote transmitters so I could monitor grill temps. I had one at the grate level on each end of the grill and they were showing about 8 degrees difference so I knew I was close. I was adjusting the PID to try to keep fluctuations low in the wind.

[Rod]

MBMorgan Makes a great point about temp differences between your cooker probe and where the meat is actually sitting. I know on my Rec Tec the grate typically runs 10-15 degrees hotter (sometimes even more in the summer). The Traeger Texas grill I used to have was worse by a lot especially in the summer. It's not a big deal usually, but good to know when your setting your temps at min/max of the desired optimal range.

[SpeedyB]

Yeah see above Rod. I did have two digital thermometers inside at grate level measuring temps.

[Troutman]

I’ll be simple and to the point, I’ve cooked dozens of racks of spares, if yours were tough after 6 hours and 40 minutes, a good portion of which was wrapped, my money is on over cooked, period.

But hey, you may have failed at ribs but you do have a cool avatar

[SpeedyB]

Hahaha Troutman. You are a true optimist my friend.... and a realist too it appears.

Thanks for your thoughts. Back to basics!

[CaptainMike]

One more bit of advice if you haven't already checked it out: https://amazingribs.com/best-barbecue-ribs-recipe

[MBMorgan]

... fer sure ...

[Troutman]

ahhh...that would be 'fir sure duuuude'

[SpeedyB]

Much appreciated CaptainMike.

I had read that article probably 3 times before I began. I deviated on a couple items but followed the basic premise.