Low 'n Slow vs Hot 'n Fast Ribs

[Rich93]

The place that defined ribs for me was the late, great Ribs 'n Bibs in Chicago's Hyde Park (closed 2014). I started going there in the early 70's and once asked the then co-owner, Linn Burton, how long it takes them to cook a slab (they did St. Louis ribs, fairly small slabs as spare ribs go). I believe he told me about 25 minutes. When I started going back there in the early 90's I asked the same question of the night guy, Reggie. He said it depends on how hot the fire is, about 30-40 minutes. So both answers were in the hot 'n fast category. They used the Southside Chicago-style aquarium smoker, which cooked the ribs over hickory logs. Their ribs were always tender and juicy with a nice smoke flavor. They were definitely not boiled first. I don't recall seeing a smoke ring but I could be wrong about that.

Recently I've tried my luck with spareribs and back ribs on my MHP WNK gas unit. I cooked them low 'n slow (around 225-250), indirect method with a water pan, but was disappointed with the results - not very juicy. This may have been the result of meat that was too lean, especially the back ribs. Or maybe I didn't cook to a high enough temperature (I tried for 190 and was close to that). I'm learning, or trying to.

Well, the main mystery I'd like to ask members to solve for me is - everyone recommends low 'n slow, and I mean everyone. So how come my favorite ribs - cooked hot 'n fast - turned out so well when done fast in the aquarium smoker? I've tried a lot of rib places (mostly low 'n slow with modern smokers). Some better than others but none has ever matched Ribs 'n Bibs.

[WI Bubba]

If you want to do ribs hot and fast, I highly recommend giving this a try.

https://blasphemyribs.com/

The problem with most "baby back ribs" these days is that there is usually a lot of loin meat left on them. The loin meat will be dry and tough from being over cooked long before the rib meat has a chance to get tender.

If your spare ribs are still tough and on the dry side, then you might be pulling them too early. 190° to me seems to be too low, but I never temp my ribs, preferring the bend / pull back test. If I had to guess, I usually don't pull them until 200° or so.

There is a ton of information on the free side for how to do ribs. If you haven't gone through that yet, it would be in your best interest to give it a look.

[Rich93]

I think you're right on both counts. There were thick parts of the back ribs that turned out inedible, they were so dry. I guess that was the overcooked loin. The regular rib part was okay but not too juicy. And I think I took the ribs off too soon, mainly because my wife was bugging me that her fried potatoes (delicious!) had been done a half hour ago!

[DaveD]

WI Bubba speaks wisdom. I would add that an instant-read thermometer is still useful to check temps if for no other reason than you will be able to feel how tender the meat is when you insert it, even if the temp itself might be a little compromised from proximity to bone. Loin meat on pork back ribs is very common and that's a near guarantee that at least some of the back rib bite will be too dry.

Good luck, trying it both ways to see which works best for you warms my experimentalist's heart

[Rich93]

Thanks, I will keep experimenting. Next time I'll make sure I cook them longer.

[pkadare]

Rendezvous Ribs Recipe: Ribs in a Hurry (amazingribs.com)

[jfmorris]

I was also going to steer him to this recipe.

[TripleB]

Just boil the ribs. Easy peasy.

[Rich93]

Thanks for the link. I'll try the rendezvous, unfortunately not a romantic one.

[jfmorris]

Rich93 You've already gotten some good advice. Most "baby back" aka "loin back" ribs these days have an excessive layer of loin meat on top, which is overcooked much beyond 140F. The ribs themselves are much like pulled pork and need to reach the 195F to 205F range in order to be tender. Because of this I try to do spares or Saint Louis style spares when I can find them. If I get stuck smoking a batch of the loin back ribs, I end up doing the 3-2-1 method, wrapping them in foil for about 2 hours of the cook, to help tenderize things.

I think you should try the Rendezvous method pkadare linked to above. While they don't cook them in 30 minutes, they do cook them in about an hour, grilled 2 to 3 feet above a charcoal fire at the Rendezvous in Memphis.

I've thought about trying this technique on my kamado, putting the fire in the bottom and using an elevated grate. I will at most get about 18 inches above the fire, not 2 to 3 feet, but it is probably still worth a shot some time.

The "blasphemy method" described by someone else is a great way to get ribs done in half the usual time, by cutting them down to individual bones before cooking, but it still happens at low and slow temperatures, and takes 2-3 hours.

[Rich93]

Thanks, I agree that St Louis is my best bet. Maybe also going to the expensive meat market near me (old-fashioned butchers, they sell prime beef) to see if their SL ribs have more marbling. The ribs I loved from R&B might also have been better meat.

[ILMsmoke]

So, I have a Gateway drum and cook on it regularly. Gateway’s motto for everything is "hot and fast". This method goes against everything we think we know, but over time I’ve embraced it gotten some great results.

If I’m cooking St. Louis ribs I’ll cook them 300° on the dial which is about 340° at grate level. This unit puts the ribs directly over the fire so you must turn every 15 minutes to prevent burning. After about an hour you’ll start getting a little pull back. I wrap until done. Typically total cook time is 1:15 minutes to 1:30 minutes. Ribs are always bite off the bone and juicy.

I’d imagine with a 30-45 minute cook time that the pits are 400°+ over a direct fire.

[Rich93]

Thanks for the tip - I'll experiment with it before the summer is done.

[Mosca]

I just think you pulled them too soon. Let them go another half hour or more. With ribs, slightly over cooked is a lot closer to the ideal than slightly undercooked is. Fall-off-the-bone is a little mushy, but still delightful.

My first ribs were aquarium style, too, at Frankie’s in South Bend IN. They were great! Being a poor hanger-on to society, all I could afford were tips. Now I know that tips are the best part, worth the work to separate!

[Rich93]

Yes, the tips from the aquarium smoker places were great also. I used to go to Lem's after R&B closed, but with Chicago now being the crime capital that it is, I've been afraid to go back. Also, my car just shouts "Carjack me!!".

[Sid P]

I haven’t tried it, but here’s a video of Myron Mixon grilling ribs.

[Rich93]

Thanks. He says he's not a fan of low and slow, but his temp is about 270 if I remember right, He might call it "almost low and not-so-slow".

[Sid P]

Mosca Rich93 I posted it because I found it interesting, but what he’s doing isn’t very clear, and I don’t see a grate thermometer. Maybe I’ll cook a half slab on a griddle and keep tabs on the surface temp…

[Mosca]

I found it interesting, too, and his ribs like that are probably better than mine! I just don’t think I could do them.

[rlozinak]

I always do my ribs slow. What i do is pull the membrane off and put the rub on and leave them go at 250 until they are done. I have been taught by members here that they are done when you grab 2 bones and pull if they come apart easily they are done. about 4-5 hours.

[Rich93]

I did remove the membrane. I found it's pretty easy with a butter knife to get it started. The butter knife is now part of my BBQ utensil kit. Never used it for butter anyway.

[Murdy]

Here's an article from the free side about how to tell when your ribs are done:

https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes/pork-ribs-recipes/are-my-ribs-ready-yet/

It's been many years, but I remember going to Ribs 'n Bibs as a kid back in the 1970s.

[Rich93]

I might have seen you there, lol. The co-owner back then, Linn Burton, was also on TV doing used car commercials for Burt Weinman Ford. It was a shock to see him behind the counter taking rib orders. No mistaking that smooth voice of his.

[Uncle Bob]

Just how much intrusion in our lives does the internet really have? This popped up on my YT feed a little bit ago: Don't Do This To Ribs - YouTube

I enjoy some of the stuff Ry does, so seeing one of his vids show up in the feed isn't unusual, it's the subject matter and timing. And since this vid is at least 4 years old, he's gotten much better since that time in his production skills. The first minute and a half of it is a bit too hokey, but the rest is pretty accurate for the time he remembers, my memories are similar. This story might be reasonable evidence that the interwebs have given us some improvement in life due to the spread of information.

[Murdy]

We mostly had country style ribs when I was growing up too, roasted covered in either sauerkraut or Open Pit.

[LA Pork Butt]

Growing up in New Orleans there was plenty good food, but BBQ was virtually non existent. But, I
remember my Dad bringing home some BBQed ribs from somewhere that to this young kid were wonderful. It set me on a search to learn to BBQ.

[Rich93]

I enjoyed the video. That's the way my dad cooked them too when I was a kid. But unlike Ry I didn't like them so much. That's why ribs from R&B were such a culinary life-changer.

[LA Pork Butt]

You have some good advice already. I would agree with those who said you probably pulled them too soon. I think hot and fast verses low and slow is that both are good but they are different. I did some Vortex blasphemy ribs in about 40 minutes. I liked the crispness, but they weren’t as tender as then typical low and slow at 225 for about 6 hours. I always pulled the membrane, but recently have eaten some ribs at BBQ joints that leave the membrane on which seemed more moist. Thus, I am now cooing ribs with the membrane on. Low and slow verses hot and fast is a preference. IMO both are good, but in different ways. I doubt whether you can produce the good qualities of each method into one cook, but maybe you can cook them low and slow and finish them on a hot grill for crispness. Keep tinkering with your cooks and you will eventually get what you want.

[smokin fool]

Agree about leaving the membrane on, I started that myself a few rib cooks ago.
I most cases I find the membrane gets hard and you can pretty much pull it off anyway while eating.

[Rich93]

Before kitchen remodeling I had an indoor gas grill - a real one, with lava rock and a big overhead vent hood. It cooked fast, no way to avoid it. The ribs I cooked on it turned out pretty tough and were done in about 25 minutes. I wasn't happy with them. The chicken leg quarters, however, turned out great but I was spritzing water all the time to put out the flames.

[jfmorris]

After a little googling and looking at photos of the aquarium smokers, it appears that they cook over a direct wood fire (in the metal base) with the meat several feet above the fire, in the tempered glass cabinet. And the flue is on top for the smoke. To me, this seems very much like what they do at the Rendezvous in Memphis, with the difference being that the Rendezvous pit is brick and open in front for access to the ribs.

I think following the instructions in the article Meathead wrote about doing Rendezvous style ribs in a hurry will be the way to go on the typical home grill/smoker, where you cannot get the ribs 2-3 feet above the fire. I.e. hot and fast indirect, at 350F or more.

I think we had someone experimenting a while back here with ribs on the kettle using the Vortex to do them hot and fast:

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/the-pit-mastery-program/porknography-ribs-pulled-pork-ham-etc/1222586-ribs-using-a-vortex#post1222586

[Rich93]

You describe aquarium smokers accurately. They're now illegal in most places because of pollution/fire hazard. Perhaps not in Chicago, or maybe the existing ones are grandfathered. They can be a fire hazard, as I witnessed one day at R&B. Big flames. It was put out with a fire extinguisher, I think. I guess those ribs had a little extra flavor.

[FleetingSmoke]

I much prefer Low and Slow, I think it is because I like to plan my day out and just enjoy. The anticipation really makes me happy. I am odd that way. And any excuse to be outside long term is well worth it to me.

[smokin fool]

I gotta do hot n fast, if dinner ain't on the table at the appointed hour my arse is the next thing on the grate.
All kidding aside, its the chefs choice, whatever floats your boat, plus in my case my cooker doesn't do low temps well its best in 270-300 range.
As far as the rib joint, they want table turnover so cook em fast, feed em, get paid, repeat....