Pizza Newbie

[Willard]

First of all, RIP Dan. The Pit 👨‍👩‍👧 will miss you!

Im yet another pizza-maker wannabe. I’ve scanned the threads and who wouldn’t want to make Pequod Chicago Style Pizza? I haven’t been to the store yet. Without asking a lot of questions would anyone like to offer up any ingredients, dos and don’ts, temps, etc? I plan on using the Weber kettle 22” or the gasser, Weber Genesis II.

Btw, I have some beautiful fresh basil and Italian Flat Parsley in the garden and some green tomatoes, chives, rosemary and the kale...so beautiful. Little Pine Warbler just landed on the feeder!

Happy Sunday!!

[gmascolo51]

I would first suggest be creative as there is no such thing as a bad pizza. As far as do and donts I would:

1. Experiment with ingredients;
2. Try your hand at making dough if you haven’t considered;
3. San Marzano tomatoes for sauce;
4. I would probably take it easy at first with the heat of the stone until you have some pies under your belt. The hotter you cook at the more important the hydration level of the dough is. I personally like 500-600.
5. A good book like Ken Forkish’s Elements of Pizza, lots of good info.

lastly have fun, hope this helps

[CaptainMike]

Perfect advice.

[Willard]

Thank you. The "evil" dial thermometer on the gas grill has registered 500+. Not sure about the kettle. Thanks for the tip on the San Marzano’s. Looks like I won’t be doing one today after all so I have more time for some schooling.

[Pequod]

What style of pizza are you planning to make? Thin? Thick?

Either way: start with the dough. Botch that and pay the price. Longer ferment or sourdough for thin. For thick, try to avoid making bread .Pizza isn't bread .

Toppings: less is more .Unless you botch the dough, in which case pile em on.

[Willard]

Loved your post on Chicago Style.

[Thunder77]

1) READ! do research. Read Meathead's and J Kenji-Lopez Alt's writing on pizza.
2) Get a stone or baking steel
3) Read! Ken Forkish. The Elements of Pizza is a great read as well as fantastic cookbook.
4) +1 on the San Marzano tomatoes. Best in the world for pizza sauce.
5) JKLA's NY pizza sauce recipe:

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/10/new-york-style-pizza-sauce.html

6) JKLA's pizza dough recipe. Made in a food processor. Very good, and EASY!

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2012/07/basic-new-york-style-pizza-dough.html

If you are going to use your kettle, find a way to elevate your stone into the dome a bit.
HAVE FUN!

[Willard]

Read? Understood. Gonna wait until I know more. After all, I’m not a Hasty Bake!

[Thunder77]

Lol!!

[RonB]

For me, the most frustrating thing is having dough that won't stretch. When you try to shape it, it just pulls back like a rubber band. For that aspect, I have found Kenji's food processor recipe mentioned above the easiest to work with. I also suggest that you make at least your first pizza in your oven - not your grill. That will give you better control and a better chance of success for that first pie.

And either a stone or a steel will help greatly getting a nice crisp crust.

[Thunder77]

Good point about making the first pies in the oven, Ron! I wish I had done that!

[Willard]

Well I’m going for something a little easier today. Chicago Style Hotdog for lunch and rotisserie chicken tonight. I’ll maybe do a test run on the pizza next weekend while my wife is in Bayou Country. Great tips as always, all! I welcome as many as you can throw at me.

[xaugievike]

I 2nd (or 3rd, or 4th) the mention of Forkish's "elements of pizza" book. I struggled mightily with pizza through the years and have since learned that dough hydration (and temp monitoring - adding an IR thermo removed doubt from temps) was my issue.

[RonB]

I should have agreed with Forkish's book too. It really helps with understanding pizza dough.

[Pequod]

I'll be a contrarian on two points:

First, San Marzano tomatoes. Most sold in the US are fakes (FAKE TOMATOES!). Ken Forkish, in FWSY, stated that San Marzano tomatoes were the only way to go. And then in "Elements of Pizza" had to admit that the tomatoes his restaurant uses -- which he thought were San Marzano's -- actually weren't. And there are some super high end domestic products that you might actually prefer (e.g., Bianco DiNapoli). That said, the tomatoes you use matter, but should be matched to the pie you're baking. For example, I use 6-in-1's (Domestic! Is he nuts? Maybe a fraud??) for my Chicago Deep Dish. These are most similar to the Chicago style taste I remember from my youth, although they could use more chunks. For my South-side Chicago Thin, I actually use a tomato paste based sauce that is a near perfect clone of what I grew up with in the South Suburbs. San Marzano's would ruin it and be inauthentic (That's it! We've got 'im for HERESY!). But I *do* use DOP San Marzano's for my NY Style and quasi-Neapolitan, although I've been known to substitute 6-in-1's when I don't have a can of San Marzano's sitting around.

Second, while I'm a huge fan of Forkish's FWSY for bread, I'm not a big fan of The Elements of Pizza, and neither is the "in-crowd" at pizzamaking.com, where Forkish is pretty universally shunned. In my opinion, a better book covering a variety of styles is Tony Gemignani's "Pizza Bible".

Not contrarian, but other advice:

1) Pay attention to your flour. It should match the dough you're making. For NY Style I seek out high gluten flours -- I prefer All Trump's unbromated. Great extensibility, easy to handle, makes a great dough. King Arthur Sir Lancelot is an alternative, but I've not used it. Save the 00 flour for your 900F Neapolitan pizzas. I use a lower protein flour (e.g. KA AP) for Deep Dish, where my goal is to make a "biscuit-like" crust, not bread. Last, if you happen to have a home mill, throw in about 10% freshly milled whole grain into your NY style pizza -- adds more depth.

2) Sourdough. For thin crust, this is where it's at. You want to get as much flavor into your dough as possible (can I get an AMEN?), and sourdough is a great way to do that. 72 hour ferments also work, but there is nothing like a 24 hour sourdough, especially if you've added in about 10% fresh milled whole grain. FLAVOR BOMB!

3) Pay attention to your dough "add-ins", as they will affect the temp and rate at which your dough browns...and ultimately burns. If you're adding sugar or oil, you'll not be baking much higher than 650 or so without developing some serious carbon. Diastatic Malt Powder is sometimes added to unmalted flours to promote browning. Note that most flours sold in the US are malted. Malted flours will NOT do well at Neapolitan (900F) temps. True Neapolitan uses unmalted 00 flour and can take that heat.

4) Stone vs. Steel. I like my baking steel a lot, but generally find I need to drop the bake temp by at least 50F to prevent burning. The heat transfer rate of steel is ~17 times that or cordierite stone. Hence, provides a great initial punch for oven spring, but will also incinerate your bottom if you're not careful. See above note about add-ins promoting browning...might want to dial them back a bit (or eliminate entirely) when using a baking steel.

[Thunder77]

So the canned San Marzano tomatoes I get are fakes??

[Pequod]

Most of the Forkish shunning has to do with his use of 00 flour in a home oven at 550F. While it *can* produce a passable pizza, it is nothing like a true 900F Neapolitan bake in terms of quality of the product. So...most would stick to NY style with high gluten flours and mid-60’s hydration in a home oven. As for the San Marzano’s, take a good look at the can and see if it has the DOP, the seal, the No., etc. If not, then probably fake.

[Thunder77]

Yeah, I use the higher gluten flours if I am making pizza in my home oven or kamado. The 00 is a must for Neapolitan, though. IMHO. Do you have a formula for sourdough crust that you can share?

[texastweeter]

pick a pizza style first. NY, Chicago, Detroit, American greaseball, various Italian versions... go from there. if you pick Detroit, NY, or thin crust, I can help you there. still working on my Chicago, and some others.

[gmascolo51]

One thing we have done lately is we blend a can or two of whole peeled tomatoes and boil it for about ten minutes with nothing in it. Separately we hear of oil add all our spices and garlic and remove from flame so the warm oil pulls out all the tastes of the spice and then we add to the sauce, shut the gas and let it sit. Works well

[Pequod]

Here’s a pic of what I’m pretty sure is a real can of San Marzano tomatoes from my pantry. Note the seal and the certification No. Not a guarantee (anything can be faked), but the bare minimum hint of authenticity. If your tomatoes lack that, almost certainly not San Marzano.

[Argoboy]

We made this pizza at home last night, our first pizza at home was awful. We now use a 14” cast iron pizza pan from Target with good success, we had a stone and it cracked. We cooked this one in the oven at 425F for about 22 minutes and we used the broiler at the end of the cook to get the middle browned. We make our own dough following the recipe from Chef John at Food Wishes for deep dish Chicago pizza. There is a learning curve to this but it is fun getting there. I have also used the gas bbq and Akron egg to cooked them as well. My wife and I prefer to use the oven this time of year and it is a two person operation in our house.

[JoeSousa]

Here is my most recent take on a Peqouds style knockoff. Took me a while to find the right cheese locally.

https://www.seriouseats.com/2017/02/...yle-pizza.html is where I started with this one. Took some testing to figure the right temp and location of the pizza in my oven. 550 with the pizza in the middle was right for me.

I have also done pizzas with my Kettle Pizza a half dozen times or so. Still working on getting those how I want.