Need some advice from you folks who have pizza ovens. My brother in law just got a Forno Venetzia pizza oven. He has only used it a few times. It fires up quickly and drafts well. His only complaint is that the cooked pizza crust, while well browned around the edges, is somewhat undercooked in the middle of the pizza. We figure there is some technique involved here that he is not aware of. He gets his dough, sauce and cheese from the local pizza shop.
What tips do you have for him to try that will get him a more balanced cook across the entire bottom of the pizza? Thanks in advance for your help.
First, an infrared thermometer to take a measure of the stone to make sure it's hot enough for the kind of pizza he wants to do.
Second, keep the toppings light to get started. Too much and it screws it up.
Third, if the toppings aren't getting cooked, but the crust is, then consider picking up the pizza partway through with the peel, and lifting it toward the ceiling for a bit.
I have a less expensive pizza oven that is propane fired. I get it crazy hot (800-900f) and launch my pizza, but then I turn down the heat or else the top will get done before I achieve leoparding on the crust. Because his oven is wood fired he can't do that, but maybe he could achieve a similar effect by moving his pizza to a different location in the oven? The other thing that can be a factor is dough hydration. He could ask the pizza shop what the hydration level is for the dough he is buying. Maybe they are making it for home ovens and adjusting hydration accordingly.
A certain amount of moisture in the dough is necessary to make bread. Too much moisture will delay browning while the excess moisture evaporates. It seems to me that the opposite would be true with not enough moisture. He might try brushing the edge with a bit of water to delay browning.
Too much sugar in the dough can also accelerate browning.
Another possible cause is that the ambient air is hotter than the stone floor. How long is he letting it preheat, and is the bottom browning? If the bottom is not browning, let the oven heat longer before launching a pie.
And as mentioned above, too much "stuff" on the pie will not let the center cook properly.
Here is a simple dough recipe that is easy to work with, and makes a very nice crust:
I have a wood fired oven (WFO ). You talked about it firing up quickly. Just because it came to temp quickly doesn't mean it's properly heat soaked. Even a IR thermometer on the deck can be deceiving in the begining. I would suggest taking up to about 800* then ride that temp for about an hour. Let it drift down to the temp you want then go for it. Also his dough recipe has a lot to do with it and you spoke nothing about the dough.
I understand his plight. I'm slowly working through the same plight as my WFO is a fairly new purchase that I'm just now figuring out.
Don't get me wrong it was a fine looking pizza and I would love it. I think most people would think the bottom was a little too done compared to the top. But I could be wrong.
Well that one was a weird pizza with BBQ sauce and pulled pork. But I think the bottom is about what you want if you're shooting for leapord spots which I thought people typically wanted. I use a Blackstone. It takes about 10 minutes to get to 900.
ckreef I also have a pizzaque attachment on an old kettle in California. It makes good pizza too but takes more time to get it to temp. 10 minutes is really nice for weeknight pizzas.
Are you using the whole dough ball from the pizzeria to make your pizza or are you cutting it down let’s say 1/2 the dough ball or 8 oz to make 1 pizza in your oven? Maybe using too much dough? The suggestion of heating the oven up for an hour at around 800 - 900 is perfect and then backing it down. Play with it as you can always throw more wood on while you cook. I have a wood fired oven and feel like the pizza comes out best when you have heated that stone for and hour or two and then cook at about 500-600 degrees. I haven’t had luck when the thermometer reads 900 seems like the dough instantly burns but I don’t have an infrared thermometer to measure the stone temp. Also try making dough as with different flours and hydration levels you can customize something that works for you.
Yes, I have and to be honest some of my best pizzas lately have been with bread flour or AP. I think I am done with trying to be a Pizzaiolo from Napoli and just stick to 500-600 degrees. I told my wife I was going to take a 3 month sabbatical to go study pizza making in Naples. She laughed at me so I think I got my answer lol
Attjack - really? I find that it's too tacky and sticky at room temp when trying to slide it from the peel to the stone, even with plenty of corn meal.
I launch the pizza on parchment paper then in about 60 seconds, once the crust has firmed up I take it out, remove the parchment, and put the pie back in to finish.
On other forums I have a WFO money thread. I'm a new member here and have only posted a few cooks. Maybe I'll start up a WFO money thread here. On vacation for the next week. Just staying at home finishing up a inside project. Will do a WFO cook or two over the next week.
It could be any number of things. Possible culprits could be 1) uneven stretching the dough out and it’s thicker in the middle, 2) could be overloading with toppings or putting too much sauce on the pizza, 3) Maybe he lets the toppings since on the dough too long before launching it, 4) temp could be too high for the dough/sauce/toppings or stone/deck could not be heated enough
One key is to have your hydration ration keyed your your cooking temperature. You can't make a 58% hydration dough work in a 550°F oven, nor can you make a 70% hydration level work in a 900°F oven. I recommend Ken Forkish's "Elements of Pizza" and I recommend forgetting about specialty pizza ovens. Sorry, but I think chasing some "Neapolitan pizza perfection" is a waste of time. Go Forkish and enjoy!
I agree with you about hydration levels and temps. Also oil and sugar in a dough doesn't work well at high temps.
Wood fired ovens are more than just pizza ovens. Sometimes it's more about the grill itself. Some people love tending the fire in a offset smoker, some people couldn't be bothered. WFO's are like that. Some people enjoy tending the live fire and other people couldn't be bothered.
UM, I'm not home to confirm this, but I believe Forkish's recipes are for 500 degree oven. You have to adjust (lower) the hydration for a 900 degree cook. He mentions this somewhere in the front of his book.
But then as Bones might say: my reklection ain't what it used to be.
I think you're right Kevin Fuess . But I do seem to recollect that temp/hydration gets mentioned somewhere in the Forkish book. But then, there's always http://pizzamaking.com , the encyclopedia of pizza.
John "JR"
Minnesota/ United States of America
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