225º-is-now-"old-school"

[W.A.]

Its not Baking. It is Barbeque

[tbob4]

I am old school. I don’t find a discernible difference with pork butt. I can go to 275 with it on my Vision grill and turn out the same results I do at 225. I will admit that 225 is an "average" temp with wood. I used my FireBoard religiously for a year. Fluctuations in temps really didn’t effect the stall. Higher temps did shorten it. What I did find was that slower cooking is way more forgiving. It is much easier to overshoot at higher temps.

A perfect example was just the other night. I usually cook Prime Rib at 225 for 4 hours. I never make a mistake. I used the Vision grill and went to 300 because we got back later than expected, giving me less time to cook. I temped my Prime Rib and pulled at 125. I Cambro’d for an hour. It was WAY overdone. Worst Prime Rib I ever cooked. The temp rose through the Cambro relative to my higher temp. I guarantee that folks who routinely cook at the higher temp would have known to pull at 120.

Why this is important - I often read about pulling temps for everything here but cooking temp, in my experience, also effects pulling temp, as does meat grade. Serving immediately after pulling from the cooker should result in comparable results relative to temp. When "holding" a meat that has been cooked for a long time (2hrs or more), the carryover has to be taken into account.

Higher long temp cooking seems, to me, to have a greater carryover effect. It doesn’t make either method wrong or right. It just has to be taken into consideration.

[Red Man]

Prime rib is the one thing I really keep the cooker temp low for. I like 200 degrees, but definitely no more than 225. That way the overcooked meat is kept to a minimum. Can’t have a well done spinalis! I also agree on the cooker temp affecting carryover. At 200, there is pretty much no carryover.

[Ronaldf123]

As a beginner here on AR I’ve been fighting to keep my temps at 225-250 as I thought that was the preferred way. My skills have improved greatly since joining thanks to everybody’s posts. THANKS!!! So in reading this post it seems the most important thing is IT and tenderness of the meat. At the lower temps I always struggled to get the IT to 200-203 as suggested.

[Nate]

AR uses 225 as a target temp to them teach consistency and apply a base temp to recipes... However sometimes a cooker just doesn't perform well at 225. There is a limit to increased temps... you don't want to run something that is needing that 225-275 range at 500... however you can do chicken at 350 and then crank it to 400 + for a little bit on the end to crisp up the skin. Depending on your cooker, cut of meat, temp, etc... it can easily take 12+ hours to get to 203... patience!

[Ronaldf123]

Still trying to learn the patience part. I think that might be the hardest thing to learn.

[HawkerXP]

Sit in the shade and read a book. Just open another beer. Start earlier then you think you'll need to. Relax and enjoy. The hardest part is knowing that its not about time or temp. Its done when its done and that means probe tender (for low n slow).

[SmokeyGator]

Gotta learn your cooker. I have a primo XL, if I want to smoke low and slow at 225 I have learned to let the cooker get to
190 - 200 with the heat plates in, THEN add the wood chunks. By the time the cooker hits 225 the wood is burning nicely and giving clean smoke. Letting it heat up to Target then adding chunks works too, but you get a period of heavy smoke. Adding chunks from the start gives you clean smoke but for a shorter duration because the pre-heat consumes a lot.

also I quit buying chunks. I buy the kingsford log splits then turn them in to chunks with a band saw. That way I get all large chunks with little to no shake.

shake is just as bad in your wood chunks bags as it was back in "the day".

[Attjack]

Smoke pot. It's a great accessory for the Primo. I get much better quality smoke since I started using one.

[SmokingSteve]

Thought for a minute there that Attjack was advocating inhaling, "smoke pot" but instead is saying to use pot that smokes, LOL!

[mrteddyprincess]

225 F. ""Ain't nobody got time fo' dat!"

I suspect that no one in the early days had a good read on temps in the cooker, and that 225 F came into being with cheap thermometers in consumer smokers. The actual temp varies greatly, and we have come to a time when we can monitor closely and accurately, and we find that 250-275 F is closer to what our cookers are good at doing, and that there doesn't seem to be any taste advantage to 225 F.

[LA Pork Butt]

All the temps work, but 225 works out really well from a timing perspective on an overnight cook on my BGE to serve at noon.

[tbob4]

Thank goodness for Kamados! My Vision isn’t nearly as reliable as your BGE but I can depend on it for sleep. A hotter temp means I have to refuel. Even in the winter (admission only down to 25 degrees where I live) it holds true.

[SmokeyGator]

Kamados are awesome for this. My primo will easily hold 225 for at least a day. As in 24 hours. I have done overnight cooks and the top charcoal chunks are still JET black. I bet with a full firebox I have 2 maybe 3 days of fuel.

[Polarbear777]

A lot depends on the cooker and the schedule. 225 is the lowest practical temp to hot smoke standard BBQ stuff because for larger hunk of meat, the center gets above 130 before the nasties get enough time to start working.

low temp also ensures the longest stall period to maximize bark and time for collagen breakdown. +50F isn’t all that much different and neither are the results. I guess I’d say the lower you go the more forgiving it is, but if you’ve done a few or a dozen at 250-275 you’ll be just fine.

i like to do brisket overnight at 225 because I can set and forget for the first 12 hrs of the cook, then wrap, finish and cambro for supper or wrap, crank it up, and finish it for lunch.

Does anyone cook without wrapping/crutch above 250F for non poultry? Seems like that adds moistness insurance as well.

[Pequod]

I always run naked at 275 for just about everything.

[Dadof3Illinois]

I will still do 225 at times. In my opinion it depends on the type and quality of meat I get. Something that has more fat and connective tissue I’ll cook at 220-230. Something I feel is a little leaner I’ll go up to the 275 range.

[Eric2662]

Only time I ever wrap is when I started a long cook a bit too late and need to get it done in time for dinner. Other than that, I find wrapping to be way overrated. Most low and slow cook ie. brisket, butts, ribs, are about the breakdown of connective tissues, and the melting of collagen. Muscle is predominantly water anyways. Thats my understanding and has been my experience as well. : )

[texastweeter]

Call me old school then.

[PaulstheRibList]

amen

[Troutman]

You're too young to be old school

[texastweeter]

Troutman lol just cause I'm not old doesn't mean I can't be old school. GenX with an old soul. My wife is in her 20s, keeps me young.

[PaulstheRibList]

Let's go back to the beginning, the arduous testing of our very own Meathead. Through his extensive testing, he targeted 225 is a great temp to smoke meats, in particular ribs that have a heavy sugar rub on them, as his does.

As we have all noted, other temps work great as well. When you cook those Last Meal Ribs at 275, the sugar's get darker and not as appealing. I ran my WSM's in that 225-240 range most of the time and loved it. I set up my fuel levels and vents to get around that range is it worked great.

When I moved to the Stickburner, I tend to run them at 250 degrees for my Ribs, and 250-275 for Brisket. On my home smokers, I have to have my trusty Kindling Kracker nearby in order to get the logs to the proper size to run a fire at 250 degrees. If I just put in bigger logs from the wood supplier, they are larger and the fire is bigger and it runs 300 or so. What I learned from this over many trials and different cookers, is that my temp is regulated the most by how much fuel I have set fire to.

In my experience, the best way to know the difference between two techniques is the ole' Side-By-Side test. I have not done any side-by-side tests with temperature as the variable. I'll have to do add that to my list of future side-by-side tests!

[Troutman]

I tend to agree with your logic but the problem I run into, and I know as a restauranteur you would have to agree with, is time. In order to get your customers fed it's hard to cook low and slow over 12-14 hours, the time constraints would kill you. Same with the home cook. it's getting tougher and tougher for me to baby sit a brisket that long. Sorry but a little darker burn on my ribs versus eating sooner is a good compromise.

[treesmacker]

225 or 275... how about we compromise... 250!

[NYC Que]

Cook at whatever you’re comfortable with. That being said, I used to be a 225 devotee but now I’m more 250 and even more 275. For me, I can produce the same end result. Now I use temp to my advantage; the time I want to serve will dictate the temp I cook at. I recently did a brisket hot and fast because I was short on time. 4.5 hours in a drum at 350 and it was tender, smokey, delicious, and juicy. This past Sunday I did a butt for 19 hours on a pellet grill and it was one of my best. More than one way to skin a cat.

[DavidNorcross]

I just dont know. But I agree with others and that is what works best for you and what makes your food taste good. I listen to alot of podcasts and many of them suggest getting your smoker to your desired temp and letting it settle in and do not worry about it from there just try to maintain as close as possible. Over the years, I would work to maintain an exact temp and I think that is where the main changes are coming in philosophy. Not suggesting a set and forget mentality because I dont think that really exists, plus playing with fire is what makes this fun! So I try and settle in at 250 or so and try to maintain from there and not worry about keeping exact....

[HawkerXP]

Agree!

[Ronaldf123]

I agree, I think I was spending more time trying to keep the temps right that it was taking the fun out of bbq.

[crazytown3]

My Weber Performer has a difficult time keeping a steady 225. If I stop fiddling with it, it will hold 250 or 275 all day long with minimal intervention. I don't like intervening with the cooker, so I let it do it's thing, and I do mine. We found a happy place together.

[Razor]

I found adjusting the top vent down to almost closed is what I need to do sometimes. I read somewhere at one time that you're suppose to leave it wide open and adjust it as a last ditch effort. I'm hear to say no-way. In the summer both top and bottom are choked down quite a bit.

[crazytown3]

True enough on the top vent. Mine is fickle enough however that to hold 225, I have to keep fiddling with the vents, and I just don't want to anymore, so I don't. :-)

[Thunder77]

I believe I read somewhere that Aaron Franklin runs his smokers at 275 for his brisket. I don't think many people complain.

[Huskee]

His dial thermometers in his lids. last I read he doesn't use digitals, and definitely not at the restaurant.

[MarkN]

I'm still new at this temperature thing (2 years). For brisket, I managed to keep the temperature at 225 degrees on my Weber kettle grill on my last attempt and it was perfect. Previous briskets were done at higher temperatures and they were less than perfect. I've done St. Louis cut spare ribs at 225 and they were the best I ever made. Higher always meant drier.

But that's just my experience.

[Huskee]

And thus we form our preferences based on our data, our experiences.