Listeria and Boar's Head

[Willy]

Jerod Broussard Have you any thoughts or "insider" insights into this?

[Jerod Broussard]

They have some info coming out I'm guessing with respect to the Freedom of Information Act. I think they showed 69 Noncompliance Records in the last year (12 months) for the establishment. It seems high for a RTE (Ready to Eat) facility. For RTE you have L_m Alternatives that you can use in order to control Listeria monocytogenes due to post-lethality contact (product is cooked and pasteurized but contacts surface(s) after the fact). Some sausage makers will use vinegar as an antimicrobial but you can also use Sanitation along with Environmental Sampling. I've spent very little time in RTE facilities, but things seem to bust out of no where, much like the Blue Bell Ice Cream ordeal. I'm OK working in my RTC (Ready to Cook) facility for the time being with yearly or bi-yearly trips to a RTE facility. We may have a RTE establishment to cover soon, but I'll be in a rotation with other inspectors.

Ya got transient microbes and ya got resident microbes. With Listeria you could have resident microbes that have not been exposed yet, someone does construction and busts down a wall, microbes get in the ventilation, then contaminate multiple post-lethality contact surfaces. Soooo many things to look at with something like this. Nothing has come out as to a definitive cause.

The thing that concerned me was this stuff being adulterated and sliced at a local deli. You now have a transient microbe potentially becoming resident on that equipment, and potentially contaminating/adulterating everything else getting sliced.

If it is Biofilms, and most times it is, those things are insanely difficult to get rid of.

I really, really, really, do not visit local deli's, unless I know for sure I'm going to cook whatever I get, such as frying a ham steak.

Pregnant women, and really anyone immune compromised such as my sister with someone else's liver, should avoid locally sliced deli meat and frankfurters/sausages that have NOT been heated before serving. With hot dogs the peeler's removing the artificial casing get contaminated.

[acorgihouse]

2 of 2/ the FDA deregulation in some food production, starting ~2019, may be a participant. Hard to say without data, as microbes in general are becoming more prevalent and more resistant.

[Smoker_Boy]

jfmorris - I only buy raw, unpasteurized local honey that's only 10 miles from home.
But it looks like it doesn't matter if it's local or Chinese in this case.

[jfmorris]

Smoker_Boy nope - bees are bees world wide. So doesn't really matter. Babies and folks with compromised immune systems shouldn't have honey except as an ingredient in something cooked.

[Jerod Broussard]

jfmorris

I buy mass produced pre-sliced lunch meat all the time. Sometimes I heat it up just for a different flavor profile. If you read the following, "sliced in retail delis" is a common theme.

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/recalls-alerts/boars-head-provisions-co--recalls-ready-eat-liverwurst-and-other-deli-meat-products

[jfmorris]

I tend towards grabbing presliced packs of lunch meat and cheese as I am too impatient for the deli counter. Now it looks like I was undertaking "best practices" and didn't know it.

[jecucolo]

Wow! It’s hard to believe that we have not been infected with one of these bugs before!

[Jerod Broussard]

Yeah, there is a lot going on. And you got the "infection" part right. Salmonella, Listeria, Campylobacter, infect you. Others have an intoxication to get you sick, even the ones that are ingested produce a toxin mediated infection.

[Smoker_Boy]

And Boars Head management try to act like this is such a surprise because their facilities are spotless.
Paleeese.

[PGH_RAM]

This article outlines some of the health code violations the plant was cited for in the past year:

https://www.supermarketnews.com/deli/boar-s-head-facility-linked-listeria-outbreak-has-dozens-violations

[DaveD]

Lots of eye opening info in here! We have routinely gotten Boar's Head products from our local Harris Teeter, and they slice it on premises in their deli department, exactly what Jerod strongly recommends against. Being here in northern Virginia, it's very likely that the problem facility is the source of those items. Needless to say, we won't be doing that again, and this morning I tossed the two packages of BH meat we got last time.

Thanks Jerod and all for the great info here.

[Jerod Broussard]

I don't really recommend NOT to do it, there's been plenty done without issue. I just avoid it, plus I'm not much for lines.

[smokenoob]

No more deli sliced meats from Publix for me 🙄

[Draznnl]

ditto

[Jim White]

Me too. But I did point out in the family chat that buying big blocks of bologna to put on the grill is still on!

[Michael_in_TX]

The thing that concerned me was this stuff being adulterated and sliced at a local deli. You now have a transient microbe potentially becoming resident on that equipment, and potentially contaminating/adulterating everything else getting sliced.....I really, really, really, do not visit local deli's, unless I know for sure I'm going to cook whatever I get, such as frying a ham steak.

I had never heard this caution prior to this recent incident. In fact, the first time I read the suggestion to heat up deli meat, I thought the author was crazy. Heat up deli meat? Aren't they called cold cuts for a reason?

Still, this all makes sense. I just got back from my local grocery store and paused near the deli counter. It is, arguably, a chaotic whirlwind of activity. Even with stringent safety protocols in place, it does seem the chance of cross-contamination is fairly high.

I think I'll be avoiding deli meats, at least deli items that I am not going to heat or melt (e.g. cheese), for a while. (They're too full of salt anyway lol.)

[Oak Smoke]

Let me see if I understand correctly. If I buy the Boars Head bologna that I like to smoke then sear I’m ok as long as I get it above 160 F or could there be toxins heat won’t neutralize. I also understand that my counter and cooking utensils need to be treated just like I would treat those used on raw chicken. Boy I’ve been careless and gotten away with it. We need a serious national discussion on the merits of irradiating our meats and produce. I worked with radioactive materials for years and would embrace its use to make our food supply safe. You can irradiate a truck load of frozen food and make it sterile without raising the temperature of the food a degree.

[Willy]

Agree 100% wrt irradiating foods.

[Jerod Broussard]

Not really. Listeria does not produce toxins and is easily killed with heat. As to the subject of toxins, not uncommon for a food toxin to be heat stable for 90 minutes at 250-F. Hence the reason time-temperature abuse of leftovers is so dangerous.