Front vs Reverse Sear

[DaveD]

Hi folks, this is something I've wondered about for a while, and in the past few days have seen a number of posts using either front-sear or reverse-sear techniques, as well as the quotes Meathead has provided from his upcoming book in a recent thread, and am prompted to pose this question.

We know that in a reverse sear, the meat is cooked on the cool side of a 2-zone setup to near its final target, then seared over high heat. In contrast, a front sear is to put the raw meat on the hot side first to sear, then over to the indirect side to bring it to temp. Fine and dandy.

What I'm wondering is whether the character of the sear would differ in these two setups. The meat is in a very different condition when raw than it is after having been brought close to finishing temp. Does the sear process happen differently if the meat is cold and raw compared to when it's already at near-final temp and has undergone significant change from the indirect cooking? Or more to the point, would it be different enough to matter? Are there any data on this from experiments?

My intuition is that the meat would react quite differently when cold and raw than when warm and close to done and getting juicy. And I can picture the way to do the experiment myself. But I'd love to know if there is a conventional wisdom on this before I do that - sort of like the literature search before setting up my own test

What say you?

[Mosca]

I’m not sure, I’ve wondered the same. Myself, I’ve found it easier to sear first. I’m not sure the results are better, I just find the technique easier to fit into my workflow. Sear, sear, sear, sear, then off the heat and dwell while I handle other stuff. Nobody has complained.

There’s a video out there with Meathead and Jamie Purviance from Weber, where they compare reverse sear and sear-to-the-rear. It is very informative, in addition to looking like they had a bangin’ good time making it!

Found it:

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

I like all those vids, I get why Meathead stopped doing them and it does add weight to the reviews on the free side. But I'd be 100% game for more of these types of videos in the future as long as the focus was on method and the "sponsored" company's product was just the method of testing said method.

[DaveD]

Mosca Wow, thank you! That is just the kind of test I was looking for. There sure seems to be a difference in the sear crust, and assuming they tried to keep everything else as equal as they could, one could conclude that the cold, raw meat onto the sear does in fact react quite differently from meat that's already warm from being on the indirect side. Fascinating!

[Mosca]

Yeah, this was a friendly collaboration. I don’t think the fact that Purviance works for Weber means anything in this context. You gotta cook on something, why not pick the most popular charcoal grill in the world?

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

I think reverse sear is king for a pellet grill, throw a cast iron pan or your sear grates on the bottom rack, smoke to wherever works best for how your grill heats up, remove the steak at whatever temp and max your grill then sear.

For me, it's simple since the MAK has a warming box (or in my case the super smoker box). I can pull at 100ish and the meat will still slowly rise with some smoke while the grill gets to 600+ then move the meat back for a quick flippity flip.

For other heat sources you still get some smokey grilling flavor on the front sear, then however you go about the low part. Pellet grills don't do so good with down as they do up. For a front sear I'd be better off using my PKGO and the oven.

[au4stree]

For me, I prefer the psuedo-reverse sear. I tend to let mine get close to temp(~20*F) and then just keep flipping until the crust is like I like it. If I sear on the front end, then I fear my crust will "soften". It's probably unfounded, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[smokenoob]

Think a Sear-off is due then a pole (or as I have been corrected in the past, a poll)

[DaveD]

smokenoob I was writing my post below while you put this up! I'm all over it

[smokenoob]

Panhead John some in titled pitmaster Lincoln driver, with a blowup doll in his passenger seat, and some Boudin in the cooler who will go in named. Wait, can I add who lives in the basement that is mothers? I love this I can just keep talking to this thing and it’ll print whatever I say. Let’s see what else I can come up with.🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪👍🤪🤪

[smokenoob]

doh! I need to put my iPad on mute…..

[DaveD]

That Meathead video that Mosca posted is really informative. Now, they used two identical grills, but of course nobody can make the fire in two kettles be exactly the same, so there's one potential variable that might have affected the character of the sear. Enough to give the different result they saw? My gut says unlikely, but...

For my experiment, my plan will be to set up my SnS kettle in 2-zone mode, and use a pair of strip steaks cut from the same Creekstone striploin, that I got a while back. I'll prep them identically - probably my usual dry brine overnight, then a bit of garlic powder and coarse black pepper shortly before cooking. I'll put one on the hot side and one on the indirect side, and once I get the sear on the raw one, move it over to indirect and put a probe in it to monitor the IT. Once the temp in the steak that started indirect gets to, say, 125/52, I'll sear it over the hot side. All of this should take no more than 15-20 min, and my fire shouldn't decline much at all in that time, especially if I use some B&B coals instead of KBB. This approach should eliminate any variables down to different grills and different fires.

If you happened to have seen my result on the National Amazing Ribeye Day thread, where I seared a wee bit too long after my sous vide step, you'll know that I was frustrated with the less than ideal outcome, so maybe this will be a form of redemption I've already informed my lovely bride that we're going to have to have steak again this weekend, to which she replied, "Oh, darn."

I'll be back here with the result, probably on Friday night because there is rain in the forecast for Saturday and Sunday both. Happy to hear more about this in the meantime!

[Purc]

For me on the Weber Kettle, I reverse sear with thick steaks, tri tips etc using the SnS. On thinner steaks, I front sear using flippy flip method using a Vortex, wide end up. Judgement on thickness determined before the cook. Both are good. I have never done both methods at once for a side by side test, so I can't say one is better than the other. Tonight, I did a 1.5 inch
ribeye using the flippy flip/Vortex method and it was great.

[Robermax]

Perhaps the reverse sear is better when you want to have more smokey profile since we are taught that smoke adheres more to cold moist meat.

[DaveD]

That may be (although rev searing a steak doesn't take very long, not a whole lot of time for smoke uptake), but I'm focused on how the two conditions affect the outcome of the seared surface...

[Donw]

Maybe I’m missing the premise of the posed question and it has been decades since I took my last physics or marine engineering classe but if I remember correctly when dealing with the Second Law of Thermodynamics the temperature difference does have an impact on the rate of heat transfer. Bigger difference, faster rate. So wouldn’t the reverse sear produce the right conditions to allow for a better sear on the exterior, with less effect on the interior, since the temperature difference will be much smaller?

[smokenoob]

That sounds like work, oh that’s the first law…..never mind….carry on 😁

[DaveD]

Donw I hear you, but I wonder if the T diff would be meaningful. If the fire is raging at, say, 800F, would the difference between a steak surface at 40F (raw) and one at 120F (rev seared) be enough to affect the outcome? Compared to 800, 40 and 120 aren't that different. Clearly in the Meathead vid above, the sear crust was "crustier" on the front-seared piece. I don't know that it's a given that a larger delta-T would result in a better sear in the first place...

[DaveD]

Here's the pair of strip steaks I'll be using for the upcoming experiment on Friday, cut from the striploin I got from Creekstone a while back. We've had one pair of these so far and they are really good!!

[Oak Smoke]

I guess my method is a front sear. I like starting with very hot bed of coals then put my steaks on about 5 inches above the coals. I flip every couple of minutes until I get the IT that I want. Near the finish I may be flipping every minute. I get a great slightly charred crust with a very moist steak. We eat steak regularly. After years of trying different methods this works best for me

[Purc]

+1 on flipping often method. ArnieTex of YouTube is a big fan of this method.

[RichieB]

I prefer the results of reverse sear. I've done both. For me the sear is more pronounced for a lack of better term and I have better control of the IT throughout the cook.

[TripleB]

Interesting. I think it is just the opposite.

[DaveD]

Loving how there is a definite diversity of views on this. Really looking forward to doing this experiment on Friday!

[Meathead]

I have never noticed a significant diff in the crust. On the other hand, there is a massive diff on the interior. More from the new book:

The genius of the reverse sear

Now here’s where things get interesting. If you cook a thick steak over IR you can get a gorgeous dark Maillard crust. As it continues to warm, the layer below turns brown, the layer below that turns tan, the layer below that turns pink, and finally, in the center you get a layer that is perfect medium rare. Most of the meat is overcooked and the exterior may well be burned. I call it the rainbow effect.

But if you put the steak in the indirect convection zone at about 225°F with the lid down the energy transfer goes slowly and more evenly. At low temperatures energy has time to swim all the way to the center without overcooking the surface. The temperature can be close to the same bumper to bumper. Prof. Blonder says “It’s like watering a potted plant. Sprinkle too fast and the pot overflows before the water can seep in. Sprinkle slowly and all the soil is moistened.”

Called reverse sear because we sear at the end rather than the beginning, it works best on thick cuts, more than 1-inch thick. Start a steak on the indirect side at about 225°F with the lid down so it warms gently and evenly from all sides. Then, when the center gets 10 to 15°F below your target temperature, let’s say target is 130°F, when it hits 120°F, take it out of the heat for about 10 minutes so the surface can cool a bit. Don’t worry, the inside will stay warm. But this cooling allows you to sear a bit longer without pushing too much heat into the core. Then move it over direct scorching infrared at Warp 10 and lift the lid so all the energy is pounding only one side. Because the lid is up, the top side is cooler and energy isn’t trying to overcook it from above. Then flip it and pummel the other side with IR and let the energy that has built up on the side that was facing the fire a minute ago bleed off into the cooler air rather than migrate to the center. And in defiance of tradition, we flip the steak every minute or two. Reverse sear. It is an important foundational method outdoors and indoors.

How many cookouts have you gone to where the chicken skin was charred and the meat was close to raw in the center? Because poultry skin has a lot of fat in it, direct IR can wreak havoc with it. Chickens are best cooked with indirect convection airflow most of the process, and then, when they are almost done, you can move them over IR with the lid up for just a few minutes, watching carefully, to crisp the skin.

I use reverse sear for everything from huge prime rib roasts to baked potatoes (they are optimum at 208 to 210°F). The only time it doesn’t work is on thin foods like skirt steak and many vegetables.

Reverse sear is perfect for pellet cookers. Because most are built like your indoor oven with a metal plate between the flame and the food, they rarely produce enough IR to get a good sear. So when I want that scrumptious smoked pork chop with a killer sear, I fire up my pellet cooker at 225°F and put a cast iron pan in there. The meat doesn’t go in the pan yet, it bathes in the warm convection air at first. When the meat hits 120°F on the interior I put a thin layer of oil in the pan (bacon fat anyone?), open the lid, plop the meat in the pan, press it hard against the hot metal, let conduction sear it, flip, and pull it off in the 135 to 140°F range.

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

that's almost word for word how I roll at my house, though I haven't tried bacon fat in the CI pan. I generally use my home made smoked tallow.

[DrJimmy2112]

Thank you Meathead for a clearly stated piece on the matter. I typically reverse sear steaks first on the pellet cooker then sear on grillgrates on the Weber gasser. I never thought to put cast iron on the pellet during the smoking slow cook process. I will try that next time and see how 225 F cast iron does for a steak sear.

[Troutman]

You can take this same basic concept a step further Meathead to include SV. To me not only is SV then sear the ultimate way to cook a thick steak, it’s really easier and more consistent. Being lazy by nature, easy and consistent appeals to me 👍

[JeffJ]

I like thick cut steaks and pop them in the freezer for 30 minutes per side before cooking on the grill. It’s an expansion of the reverse sear concept - the meat cooks from the outside in so the “freezer trick” is designed to have the outer portion of the meat cooler than the interior. And for a more marbled cut like a ribeye the extremely cold (but not frozen) steak has more time to gently cook and have the fat render.

[DaveD]

That's a great idea! JeffJ is that a strip steak?

[ItsAllGoneToTheDogs]

That's how I do meatloaf on the pellet cooker, about 45-60 minutes in the freezer, pop out of the loaf pan and straight on the grate. Holds it's shape and cooks through perfect.

Also how I cold smoke cheese in the warmer months.

Gonna have to try some steaks like that, that looks amazing. I've done them with a few minutes in the freezer before cooking with the thought of getting more smoke adhesion, but haven't froze them as long as you did here before I don't think.

[Troutman]

That’s a hell of a nice plate of food there Jeff 👍