Epic Fail Using Vortex

[Grillin Dad]

Sounds like you got some good advice already, but I'll jump in with my 2 cents as well. I also had issues with the vortex not getting hot enough when I first started using it. I found that I was leaving the charcoal in the chimney too long, waiting for the top coals to ash over. Now, I dump the coals into the vortex as soon as the white smoke clears into the clear smoke. As others have said, if you wait until all the coals are ashed, I've found that most of their heat energy had already been spent. Also, I leave the lid cracked open just a bit when cooking. I find that the extra air really helps boost the temps.

Don't give up on the vortex though! Once you get the hang of it, it makes stupid easy, delicious, chicken. I can't even order wings anymore, they're never as good as vortex wings!

[jfmorris]

Something else I noticed you did, that I have not bothered with, is that you foiled the charcoal grate around the Vortex. I've never bothered with that. May or may not be a factor...

[Finster]

I think I did that the first couple of times I used it, but my laziness eventually kicked in and I stopped. That extra 2 minutes back in my life makes a world of difference...lol.
I haven't noticed a difference one way or the other

[Panhead John]

I’ve never done the foil thing either. When grilling there’s usually not enough drippings for me to worry about. I can’t say if the foil helps or not, but I’ve never needed it. I’ve checked the temps before at grate level above the vortex, it’s almost 1,000*. Think it was about 950* or so.

[GolfGeezer]

OK all. After discussing this with my therapist Panhead John , I am trying an experiment. Cleaned the kettle and I am now running another load of charcoal in my chimney. No food, just testing the basic setup with no foil,vents full open top and bottom. I’ll give the chimney 20 minutes,then into the vortex.

Report on results a bit later. Arthritic fingers crossed….

[GolfGeezer]

Will you take green stamps? I still have some from the 50’s.

[jfmorris]

Not sure which kettle you have, but I've actually used the propane ignition in my Performer Deluxe to light charcoal directly in the Vortex. Takes a little longer than a regular chimney to get going, but if you are lazy like me, its another way to go...

[GolfGeezer]

jfmorris It is the SnS kettle which is basically a 22” Weber with extra stuff.

[GolfGeezer]

So it is now about 50 minutes since I started this test. I definitely think the Cowboy briquettes are a major source of my issues with the vortex. The temp never got above 325*. Here is a picture of the vortex after loading from the chimney and waiting about 10 minutes. No swirling flames.



I guess I'll chalk this up to a poor brand of briquettes. I'll get some Kingsford Original (can't find any Pro around here) and give that a go.

[GolfGeezer]

Understood. However, not getting the temp above 325* is problematic to me, especially for a vortex cook. 325* is not bad in and of itself, but for this type of cook, it should get over 400* I think. Regardless, science and testing will march forward!!!!

[PGH_RAM]

Interesting! My money was going to go on the foil being the problem, interrupting the convection air currents.

[jfmorris]

Those briquettes are already used up in the photo if they are that white and ashed over.

Get any other brand, and dump them after 15, give it 5 more minutes and start cooking!

[Jfrosty27]

Firing up the Vortex in a little bit for some wings. I light the coals (Kingsford Pro) right in the Vortex. I have a Performer Deluxe with the built in gas starter. Works like a charm every time.

[jfmorris]

That’s what I often do too - I even reuse charcoal from prior cooks in the Vortex, just top it off with fresh.

[GolfGeezer]

Well, it has been an interesting journey. My test run using no food and a basic vortex setup produced, for me, confusing results, or maybe exposed two things. In my test, I loaded my Weber chimney full. Placed it on the top grate of the kettle, lid off and lit them using a fire starter puck. When the chimney showed no white smoke and most of the goals glowing, ashed over except a few at the top, after 15 minutes or so, I dumped them into the vortex. Still with the lid off, I let the coals burn for another 10 or so minutes.

i posted a pic of the coals and vortex above. No swirling flames, but they looked hot. I put the lid on with the bottom and dome vents fully open. After another 20-30 minutes, the dome never got above 325*. I assumed that I should have seen the dome temp well above 400*, maybe even 500* given what folks have posted in response to my adventure. So, I thought that the Cowboy briquettes were the culprit for failed cook.

well, just for grins, I placed a FireBoard ambient probe on the grate below the dome thermometer. OMG! It was over 430* after 2 hours of the coals burning.

That leaves me to conclude a couple of things. On my actual cook, I did not let the chimney get hot enough, and I did not let the coal heat up in the vortex with the lid off before placing my chicken thighs on the grill. That probably led to the taste issues. So, under heated charcoal, under heated grill yields not so good results.

whether the Cowboy charcoal contributed to my issues is now unclear, but I will be switching to Kingsford Pro which I ordered off Amazon. My local Costco does not show any of their brand available.

i have also emailed SnS about the temp variance to see what they say. I suspect they will say the dome will always be different from the grate, but that does not explain the 130* difference IHMO.

thanks for all the input and feedback folks! The Pit is amazing, and you all are very generous and helpful.

[smokenoob]

I’m cooking some vortex chicken right now. On the second 15 min flip I didn't seat the weber top fully by accident. When I went to check it, the heat was intense with the additional air allowed. Just food for thought…..

[Finster]

GolfGeezer

I made some wings on the vortex last night.
I intentionally used Cowboy briquettes after reading this thread.
I had no issues with temp using a full chimney of the Cowboy. If anything, I realized I may be able to get away with using a little less charcoal to achieve the same results.

Full load of briqs to start.
coals were added to the vortex after 20 minutes or so in the chimney

dome temp 10 minutes after coal drop
Dome temp at the 30 minute mark
total cook time for the wings was 38 minutes.
flipped once after 15 minutes.
unless you just had a bad bag of Briqs for some odd reason, I don't think the Cowboy was the issue.

[GolfGeezer]

Finster Yup, I pretty sure my issues were User Error. That is why I did a test run and saw how off the dome temp readings seemed to be. As for the food cook, I'm still a bit befuddled. I'm pretty sure I put the chimney load in the vortex after 20 or so minutes. However, I did not wait before putting the chicken on and placing the lid on the kettle. Even though the vents were wide open, I think that was the cause my food issues. After I get the new dome probe, and use KBB, I'll try again.

[jfmorris]

GolfGeezer I will be curious how your replacement thermometer compares, but my experience with a Weber kettle (Performer deluxe, circa 2007) is that when I was using the SNS a lot, the temp on the dome thermometer would start about 75-100 degrees ABOVE the temp at the grate. The dome thermometer placement on my older kettle is almost dead top - the thermometer is nested under the handle, at an angle, coming inside the lid under the top handle. Over time on long cooks, the temp at the dome and the temp at the grate probe would converge, but my point is it was always higher than at the grate.

With the Vortex, that puts my dome thermometer right above the Vortex. Yours is offset and down closer to the grate level, so I almost don't expect yours to peg out as much as mine does on an older Weber kettle. That said, your findings with the probe tend to support a bad dome thermometer, since the heat from the Vortex goes UP, hits the dome, then turns down and forms convection currents that follow the dome and side walls down, but with a good bit of heat escaping through the top vent. Which leads me to another observation. Your dome thermometer in the pics I see on the SNS website is right below the top vent. On many Weber kettles the dome thermometer is on the opposite side of the lid from the top vent. Maybe that affects the reading as well when using a Vortex.

I guess I am saying, it *MIGHT* be the thermometer placement chosen by SNS that is affecting what you see with the Vortex over what is seen on a Weber kettle. We will find out when you get the new thermometer installed I suppose.

I do not use a grate probe when cooking with the Vortex, as I am only doing that when doing high heat indirect, and I really don't want to damage a probe if it gets too hot, and also don't feel the temp is that critical, as long as it is 400+.

[GolfGeezer]

jfmorris Yes, the use of the grate probe was kind of an afterthought when I did the test without any food involved, and no foil, just the vortex and a load of charcoal. During the test, the SnS dome maxed at 325*, when I decided to put in the FB probe on the grate just below where the SnS dome probe was positioned. That was at least 1.5 hours into the test, so I wasn't expecting super hot temps. That the FB showed well over 400* led to my outreach to SnS support.

[Panhead John]

I googled…..cooking grate temps on a kettle using a vortex. An old post of mine actually popped up on the first page, a few paragraphs down from the top. I forgot all about this! Anyway, here’s what I posted a few years ago after doing a few tests.

https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/forum/accessorize-your-pit/slow-n-sear/1201747-cooking-grate-temps-on-the-kettle-with-the-vortex-the-answer-will-shock-you#post1201747

[smokenoob]

It’s pretty bad when you got to Google for an answer and the first post that comes back was yours from a year ago 😂😂😂
that never happened to me.. 🙄🤥🥴 😗

[Michael_in_TX]

My conclusion is quite pedestrian. I conclude I am doing wings this weekend.

[jfmorris]

I second this conclusion!

[radshop]

My biggest fail with the vortex is failing to use it as often as I should. But when I use it, the vortex never fails to peg the kettle thermometer.