The better burger isn't happening...

[Hugh]

Maybe I'm trying to get something that doesn't exist? I need to cook well done burgers for my guests (over 155 degrees, no pink). I can't find a way to make a juicy burger at that temp. Ideas?

I can get them juicy when they come off the BBQ but after they have been in the bun for a few bites the juices are gone and the meat has a dry texture.

I'm doing an indirect cook with a reverse sear putting them on the sear at around 140 -145 with the sear taking them to 155.

I've been experimenting with Chuck burger. The first batch was 22 percent fat. I added 20 percent bacon to the second batch. I got custom ground Chuck for the third batch at around 35% fat (no added bacon).

All of the above were nice coming off the BBQ but I got feedback they were dry as people ate them.

Maybe this is as good as it gets for jucyness?

Hugh

[Jerod Broussard]

I pre-sear HOT to get a good crust, then I wrap in foil and take to 160-165 internal. I don't eat any burger less than 160 internal. Many times using this method the bread gets too wet for my taste.

[Hugh]

Jerod - some questions on cooking the burgers in tinfoil. What would you call this style of cooking? Basting? Are there any downsides to it? It sure does increase the juices.

Thanks, Hugh

[MBMorgan]

I don't eat any burger less than 160 internal.

I used to be the same, Jerod. These days, I grind my own burger (chuck eye steak) then SV for 4 hours at 135 deg. F. ... finally, season and onto the sear burner for a nice crust and eat them in "perfect" (I settle for 6 sigma as close enough to perfect) safety at 140 F IT.

[MBMorgan]

Jerod Broussard - I know I've said it before ... but to quote one of my Aggie buddies: "Abosotively posiloutley!!!"

[Jerod Broussard]

MBMorgan I work with aggies everyday

[radshop]

You guys are reminding me of a good friend who always says "If it was easy, we could hire Aggies to do it."

[RonB]

Are you cooking to 155* because your guests want them that way, or are you cooking to 155* for safety? If for safety, you can grind your own and cook to whatever temp you want safely. All you need to do is dunk the meat in boiling water for a bit to kill the little nasties crawling around on the surface of the meat before grinding.

[Breadhead]

Excellent solution...👍

[Willy]

Follow Meathead's recipe for steakhouse burgers, including grinding your own meat. Be sure to get plenty of fat. Even at 160°F, these are plenty juicy: http://amazingribs.com/recipes/hambu...e_burgers.html

Also, read the various articles here: http://amazingribs.com/recipes/hamburgers/index.html

For years I felt that condiments "made" the burger cuz my burgers off the grill were, well, I can say it now--AWFUL; now I know better.

[bten]

I agree with the fat comment. If you get to high a grade of ground meat with a low fat content, the burgers will be dry. Next time try something with 15-20% fat, even if you just buy the ground meat in the store.

[FireMan]

ditto bten.

[Sweaty Paul]

Concur with Willy. Meathead also describes a method to "pasteurize" your meat before grinding. I've utilized this method and the results were delicious.

[FireMan]

Excuse me Hugh, but what is Chuck burger, hand made ground chuck, or a pre made burger? What are you cooking on? What is the size of the bergs?

[Hugh]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Fireman - I believe chuck is ground blade roast or ground chuck roast. Meathead recommends it and a grocery chain here is selling it as a high end burger with 22% fat. Its very good. They are pre-made. I also went to a local butcher and had custom burger made at two different fat levels. Again made with chuck/blade roast (that is what she called it). I'm up to 35% fat content.

I'm cooking on a Weber Genesis II 310 with Grillgrates, Thermapen/iGrill2 thermometers.

I'm indirect cooking over the grill grates and then searing on the hot side with two over turned grillgrates.

Willy - I'm following Meatheads recipe to the T. The flavor is great, I'm just not getting the juices everyone is talking about AFTER it has been on a bun for awhile.

RonB - I'm up in Canada and we tend to eat well done burgers. People don't like to see pink, they worry they will get sick. I prefer no pink myself as well. I'm finding 155 is about where pink ends but may need to go to 160. I've been looking at grinding. I only found this butcher yesterday that will customer grind any meat I want so I'm pretty happy with the meat since I'm cooking it to a high temp anyway.

I've been reading Meatheads material on pasteurization. If I hold the meet at 150 for 1.2 minutes it should be safe. The reverse sear makes this more complicated. Which leads to.....

Jerod - I never thought of wrapping it in tinfoil. Brilliant. I'm trying this tomorrow. Sear first, wrap and finish with indirect AND pasteurize from 150 to 155.

Ok guys, now for part 2 of Hugh's Perfect Burger....

I'm a burger on a good bun with no fixings guy. My favorite burger is my chuck burger with diced bacon mixed in the burger. I ended up at 10% of the hamburger weight worth of bacon added.

Assuming I get the juiciness I'm looking for with Jerod's idea, I want to add a garlic burger to my repertoire. I tried one today with 1 section of fresh garlic. It tasted bitter. Any body got suggestions for a better garlic burger?

Hugh

[martybartram]

Precook your garlic or make garlic confit and then add it.

[rat88]

do it the easy way and use garlic powder or garlic salt to the mix. Easier to tweak to taste that way

[Mr. Bones]

I wish ya' greatest success in yer quest.... I cook mine to no pink, an' always have juicy, unless I pull them too late...
There's been some wonderful input presented here...
Mebbe I'll add my own, later. Gettin' ready fer bed, at present. Long week.
Also, what kinda cooker temps are ya' runnin', fer yer "Indirect" ?
I almost always use pre-made GC Burgers...unless a special occasion is afoot...

[Steve B]

Roast or smoke the garlic first. That should mellow out the bitterness.

You guys are killing me with this ( cook to 160*) thing.
I hate seeing my burger all brown/gray inside.

I've only ONCE in my life had an issue with bad meat.
Sure felt like crap for about a day but got through it.

I want my burgers done to a medium/medium rare.
135-140* at best.

As far as you not getting a juicy burger Hugh . I'm thinking from what you're saying about the fat content of your meats. You are cooking them at too low of a temperature,not sealing in the juiciness, kinda like what Jerod Broussard said above. Do a really high heat to seal them up and a low and slow to bring them up to temp. But flip them frequently so they don't have the chance to dry out.
looking forward to seeing how your next batch turns out.

[Hugh]

Hey Bones. I keep one of the iGrill probes in the indirect side at all times. Running as close as I can to 225 degrees at all times. Occasionally I have to get out of my Lazyboy to adjust the damn thing..... I do love bluetooth.
I do get a juicy burger but it dries up after its on the bun for awhile. Maybe that is what always happens???

Hi Steve - just wait till I tell you how I like my steaks! Just a touch of pink. I'm embarrassed to admit it!
I'm searing as hot as the Weber will go on the Grillgrate reverse side. The infrared temp on the Grillgrate ranged from 460 to 560. I will try the wrap and sear at the start idea tomorrow and report back.

I'm intrigued by your idea to roast the garlic first. I just googled it because I've never done it. Wrap in tin foil and bake at 400 degrees for 30 minutes till soft. Sound right? Or do I need to cook that much?

My mouth is watering for tomorrows lunch!

[HorseDoctor]

Add just a touch of olive oil before roasting. Then squeeze out the garlic like little pats of butter. Can mix in ahead or "butter" your bun with it.

[FireMan]

Steve B, you stated what I was sorta thinkin with the to low temp & very good suggestion of Jerod's recommendation. I also 3 really shy a way from a pre-made patties. They seem to be pressed to tight. Grab a handful & make them at a tad over 1/3rd lb, 8 out of 3 lbs. Nothing out of the ordinary, plain old ground chuck & I ditto the med to med-rare 140-145.

[HouseHomey]

A ageee. They are a smaller grind and pressed for sale and presentation. Also there's a legal definition some where in there too.

[Michael Brinton]

If you want juicy burgers at a temp like that use a panade. Tear up some bread and soak it in milk, maybe add an egg to your ground beef. It may not be a pure burger, but your never really going to have maximum juices if it must be cooked to that high of a temperature. The panade will help, it's a must with well done burgers.

[HouseHomey]

yes Hugh or a (spelling?) "Pistatta" which is a similar concept with fat, or use both. Perhaps lean a tad toward a meatball.

[Hugh]

Thanks Michael. The panade is on my list of things to explore. I worry that the burger will be more like a meatloaf though. Any one out there tried it? Feedback? Maybe I could ease into it and just add a small amount to start.

[HouseHomey]

Quality beef, lower fat and a higher temp or go Jerods way. A fast hard Sear from cold is the only way (only?? Perhaps) your protein will be able to have time to relax. the way you are cooking your burger sounds great, but not to Sear in the rear for high internal temps. Jerod and Steve B seem the most logical route for what you are cooking. Don't change a bunch of stuff at once or the variables will get you. First see if you can add moisture to a finished product from 1 particular method.then go from there. Maybe Lean towards a "meatloaf and meatballs" e.g. Panade, eggs, bread crumbs. Pistattas, cheeses and stuffed burgers.

Is there anyone by you (you mention it's a great white north thing) who makes a great, well burger? Look into them. This sounds like an amazing fun task and challenge.

And lastly.... unless you are putting Katsup on a Chicago dog never apologize for how you like your food. The Pit people around here will always help you achieve that goal. Sure, there may be some "fun' ing" or some jokes back n forth but we always have your back. That was some good stuff above and I almost didn't say a word (you wish) and I loved all of the Hamburger talk. Sorry that was bten too. Shoot., That was RonB

[Hugh]

HouseHomey - I googled "pistata" and that does sound interesting. Your thinking capture the juices from the tinfoil in a pan and saute with the pistata and then pour back over the burgers? This is getting scary.

The more I read about the panade, the more I like it. Easy to do and to start small so it doesn't overpower the hamburger.

Another idea I got off the web is to add mayonnaise to the meat and let stand for a couple of hours. Apparently it doesn't effect the flavor, just adds juiciness.

Thanks all for the great ideas. Somewhere in here there is a juicy well done burger.

[HouseHomey]

Scary can be good. Never trust a skinny Chef. 👨‍🍳 😀