Welcome!


This is a membership forum. Guests can view 5 pages for free. To participate, please join.

[ Pitmaster Club Information | Join Now | Login | Contact Us ]

Only 4 free page views remaining.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Looking for tips to fine-tune brisket results

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Looking for tips to fine-tune brisket results

    I did a brisket for New Years, starting with a Prime-grade 16 lb packer from Costco. I followed Meathead's technique, as with the dozens of briskets I have done in the past, but the texture on this was dry and firm...not right. I have done lots of great briskets in the past and I am trying to troubleshoot what to change next time to avoid the same result.

    Some details from my smoke, and feel free to ask questions if I left something out
    - 16lb Prime packer. Trimmed the fat. Kept the Point and Flat connected
    - Modified Big Bad Beef Rub that I evolved over the years and works well for me
    - Injected beef broth when I put it on the smoker. Maybe 16 oz from a beer glass
    - Put meat on at 12:30am and set Yoder pellet smoker (I like to sleep at night) to temp. Temp from Thermoworks K-type logger (1 min intervals) next to the meat showed the temp at the brisket peaked at 250 then settled in to a very consistent 235 for the night
    - Brisket internal temp ramped up as usual and began to stall around 160 at 6am, when I got up in the morning. I wrapped it in butcher paper (24-inch pink paper, ran one piece end-to end lengthwise to catch ends and wrapped another radius to hold it together). The temp probe never came out so it was in the same position throughout for a consistent measurement.
    - Temp ran fairly linear again until it flattened in the high 180s/low 190s mid morning then stalled again as it approached 200. It took two hours to get from 193 to 200, which got me worried about it drying out. I never made it to 203, my preferred take-out temp. It felt soft to my Thermopen probe but maybe not "buttery"...I was poking through the paper. That was 11:45am
    - I finally pulled it off the smoker at noon and rested the meat, after 12 hours on the smoker. Lots of "au jus" moisture/fat leaked out of the paper when I transferred it from the smoker to a tray to rest (still in the butcher paper). I have the temp logger curves on another computer...I can attach them to a later post if it helps but I will put the relevant temps below
    - Rested the meat until mid afternoon, keeping the meat warm and in the butcher paper until I cut it

    I cut the meat in the middle, toward the point end, but it was dry and firm...maybe a little tough. The texture was not moist or "fall apart" tender. The texture was kind of like an over-cooked roast or turkey breast

    In the past I have crutched it with foil and with paper. I have not taken one all the way through "naked" because I always end up worried about the meat drying out. This time I used paper, which I prefer because the bark is not as soft afterward as with a foil crutch.

    I am trying to figure out why the dry brisket?

    Did I take it out too soon? I always worry at the end about drying out an expensive piece of meat...I love my brisket moist and tender, just holding together as it is supposed to.
    My wife tried an experiment the next day with some slices in a little beef broth in a covered casserole pan in the oven for a couple hours. The meat was tender and moist and still flavorful, making me believe maybe I pulled it too early.

    I scratch my head...as I understand it, the stall is from moisture evaporating from the meat so my intuition told me the second stall near 200 was the meat drying out. I didn't want shoe leather so I bailed out and pulled the meat off the smoker. After my wife's experiment, i am thinking maybe it didn't spend enough time north of 170 to render the fat.

    Looking at the logger file
    - 160 at 6:10 am and the slope flattened into the stall. I then wrapped it in butcher paper
    - 170 at 7:30am
    - 177 at 8am
    - 187 at 9am
    - 193 at 10am
    - 198 at 11am
    - 199 at 11:45
    - I took it off when it hit 200 at noon


    What do you guys think?

    Thanks for the help


    #2
    Where was the temp probe? In the open part of the flat, the part of the flat covered by the point, or in the point?

    I dunno, sounds odd, to me. Every piece of meat is different, they say, some may just not be willing to soften up, eh? What do the experts say?

    Comment


      #3
      It could have been overcooked, it could have been too hot when slicing. I've only cooked a few primes, and around 20 wagyu and from my experiences they tend to hit probe tender around 195ish. Cooking to temps will put you in the ballpark, but checking for probe tender(when a probe slides in like a hot knife through butter) starting at 190ish will help dial it in. And a rest to bring it down to 140 before slicing will help also.

      Comment


        #4
        Overdone. Biggest mistake with Prime is to think it needs to go over 200 internal.

        Driest brisket flat I ever cooked was Prime taken to 203. Literally was drier than Selects I have cooked. It was like I had wrung it out and then ran it through the drier after hanging it out to dry in the desert.
        Last edited by Jerod Broussard; January 4, 2018, 12:08 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Agree with Jerod & edible hen. With Prime full packers I prefer (and I'm just sharing what I do, not saying my way is golden or will work perfectly for you) to take mine to around 193-195 in the point, maybe 197 max. Mine take longer to get there because I don't wrap until 180ish, well after the stall, great bark by then. I'd estimate about 7-8 hrs until I wrap, cooking at avg of ~240F. After wrapping it seems to be 1.5 hrs, sometimes more, to rise that final stretch to mid 190s. The time at these higher fat-rendering temps is a huge factor in tenderness & yumminess, not just the target temp. As with sous vide cooking, it's a time+temp or a time at temp thing where the magic happens. Being too focused on a target temp can hurt us, but not always.

          But I like to average about mid-190s max with Prime. Then I do the cambro hold which for me is dropping my smoker temp to 160-180 for 2 more hrs. This gives me a total cook time for the average 10-14lbers of ~12 hrs until slice time. I had a big 16.5lb thick one take 2 hrs longer yet, 14hrs total, and I still felt it could've used another hr hold time.

          To further complicate things, wrapping in paper can lead to a drier end product, since the paper breathes.

          To further complicate things again, you could've just got a tough cow. Tough muscle can happen too.

          Comment


          • Luke Biggs
            Luke Biggs commented
            Editing a comment
            Question: For the Cambro hold do you wrap it in a towel only?

          • Huskee
            Huskee commented
            Editing a comment
            Luke Biggs I usually just drop my grill or smoker temp to 160-180 to be the cambro...(or a faux faux
            cambro?) and leave it right there. If I use a cooler then yeah I'll wrap it in several old towels.

          • Luke Biggs
            Luke Biggs commented
            Editing a comment
            I like that term "Faux faux cambro!"
            That makes sense!

          #6
          I would like to add with Selects the biggest mistake you can probably make is NOT taking it to at least 203 internal.

          Comment


            #7
            The experts have spoken and based on my limited experience, I think they have science behind it. I start checking probe tender at about 190F...some are done by 195-197F.

            Comment


              #8
              How do you guys check for probe tenderness when you wrap/crutch? Do you open it up repetitively and check, do you poke through the foil/paper, do you try to get into a corner and test it, which is obviously dependent on the wrap for your position trying to probe...?

              I'm just wondering.

              Comment


                #9
                Thanks for the quick replies and all your insights. This is very helpful.

                The probe was stuck in the point end, with the tip maybe 6 inches from the end in the big part of the meat. Interesting to hear Primes go faster/lower temp...maybe all that marbling renders out. I will have to pay closer attention with Primes in the future. I have done a couple dozen CAB briskets and only a couple Primes and the CABs were all better

                I rested it in the oven, which I set at 170 (min temp) then cycled on and off as it got to temp or cooled down. It was in there for a few hours and the meat never cooled down to below about 140 and was warm to the touch but didn't burn through nitrile gloves when I sliced it. I have rested briskets this way in the past, as well as the faux cambro technique

                I usually look for the temp curve to flatten, then I wrap. More temp than time driven...I look for the break on the logger trace. I took it to 180 last time and it was dry too, so this one I caught earlier in the stall. This brisket went 5 1/2 hours before I wrapped it, and the temp had definitely flattened. It cooked 7 hrs to get to 170, about an hour and a half after I wrapped at 160. Usually it is a couple hours after the wrap when it hits temp...which is why I was surprised it went until noon. At 6am I thought it would be coming off too early!

                As I said in my initial post, I am frustrated to have disappointing briskets now after so many good ones! I went to Kreutz Market in Lockhart a few weeks ago when I was in Austin for work and they have great bark and great smoke and super moist meat with no wrapping. I still don't know how to do it to get results like that, and I have talked to the pitmasters there several times over the years. They say they don't pay attention to temps, but they cook more in a day than I do in 5 years

                How do you guys wrap with paper? I have 24 inch paper, which isn't quite wide enough to fold it in to lock the meat up so I end up wrapping longitudinally as well as radially. It feels like a lot of paper...maybe too much paper to breathe? IDK. Lots of fat/au-jus rendered out of this hunk of meat and it ran out of the paper when I transferred it to the tray

                Finally, with my wife's experiment of cooking slices for a couple more hours in the oven in a covered casserole pan and some au jus, it came out tender and moist. Did she just turn it into brisket pot-roast? What do you think? It salvaged an otherwise dry brisket but I prefer it tender and moist off the smoker!

                It looks like I will have to try some of these suggestions on another brisket ;-D

                Comment


                • kmhfive
                  kmhfive commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I think some cows are just ornery! If they all cooked perfect then the competition cooks wouldn’t need to do more than one. Keep smoking!

                • edible hen
                  edible hen commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Try placing a probe in the thickest part of the flat next time. It may not have hit as high of a temp as the point when you pulled it. And that could be why the reheating worked so well. It finished cooking the flat.

                #10
                I have done many of the Costco full prime packers here are my thoughts
                I cut off the last 6-8” of the end where the flat is and do something else with the flat (it gets too dry if you want bark, so looking into SV techniques for it).

                Then I smoke the rest at 225 (+\- 10 deg) for a good 10-12 hours to ensure bark. It’s usually around 170-185 then so post stall. Then I wrap tightly in foil and cook for a few hours until it hits 200-205. Then toss in a faux cambro for at least 3 hours (it usually stays above 140F even after 4 hours).

                Then if time, I’ll heat up and render the brisket fat I trimmed, heat it then to about 375F. Put the brisket on a rack and pour the hot fat over it (watch out this is literally a hot mess) to flash fry and firm up the bark. Though the bark is still good without this step it is better with it.

                edit: I took the flat part, smoked it to 130F and then bagged and SVd at 135F for 72 hours. Very tender and juicy and decent smoke flavor, but of course no real bark. Sliced thin and fried in a pan like bacon and it was fantastic.
                Last edited by Polarbear777; January 4, 2018, 08:59 PM.

                Comment


                  #11
                  I always try to save as much of the drippings as possible just in case the flat is dry. That is why I wrap in foil if I wrap at all. You mentioned that you lost most of yours, so no way to pour the juices over the meat.

                  Comment


                    #12
                    I agreed with them

                    Comment


                      #13
                      On briskets, I only use internal temp as a reference. Nothing beats checking fore "done/tender" than just an old fashion probe. When it probes like "buttah", pull it. I've had briskets that finished at 190, and I've had some that have finished as high as 208, and still be moist and tender. I noticed that you injected right before you put it on the smoker. I've had great success injecting hours before putting the meat on the pit. It's my opinion that it gives the injection time to distribute itself more evenly throughout the brisket. After I slice, I let the slices lay in the "jus" from the foil.

                      Comment


                        #14
                        One thing I do is probe the flat only- the point will always be done when the flat is done, but not always vice versa.

                        Another couple things you may want to try is a saltier injection to help a bit more with moisture retention. Try 2 cans of beef broth but reducing them by a little less than half and leave injection in for a couple hours. Try also spraying with liquid (water or beef broth or consumme etc.) after the first couple hours. When you do wrap, try adding a half can or so of beef broth (regular, not reduced) to the wrap- the bark should soak up the broth. I also spray after I unwrap to rehydrate. For finishing temp, it can vary greatly depending on what temp you're cooking at. If I cook at 300, my prime packers aren't done until around 210. At lower temps will usually be somewhere in the 200 range.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Comment


                          #15
                          I did a prime packer from Costco after Xmas. Great looking piece of meat, turned out awesome. The point was on point but I did think the flat was a bit on the dry side. I pulled it 170, also wrapped in pink butcher paper, cooked to 203 and then rested in the cambro for 2 hours. The flats on the choice packers I've done were better! Will definitely pull and probe at 195 to see if there's a difference next time. I just hope Costco keeps stocking em!

                          Comment

                          Announcement

                          Collapse
                          No announcement yet.
                          Working...
                          X
                          false
                          0
                          Guest
                          Guest
                          500
                          ["pitmaster-my-membership","login","join-pitmaster","lostpw","reset-password","special-offers","help","nojs","meat-ups","gifts","authaau-alpha","ebooklogin-start","alpha","start"]
                          false
                          false
                          {"count":0,"link":"/forum/announcements/","debug":""}
                          Yes
                          ["\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1157845-paid-members-download-your-6-deep-dive-guide-ebooks-for-free-here","\/forum\/the-pitcast","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2019-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2020-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2021-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/bbq-news-magazine-2022-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2023-issues","\/forum\/national-barbecue-news-magazine\/national-barbecue-news-magazine-aa\/current-2024-issues","\/forum\/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads\/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here"]
                          /forum/free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-downloads/1165909-trial-members-download-your-free-deep-dive-guide-ebook-here