First Brisket Completed

[djotaku]

Cooked that Monster Brisket I was asking about here ( https://pitmaster.amazingribs.com/fo...onster-brisket ).

First off, here's a chart:



Setup:

Cooker: WSM 18"
Wood: 4 chunks of Hickory
Charcoal Setup: Minion Method
Water Pan: Started full (1.5 gal, I guess?). Added in about 3/4 liter before going to bed (VWB website suggested checking water every 4 hours)
Meat: I'd started with Costco 20.5 lb USDA Prime whole packer. Trimmed fat and also took 2.5 lbs off the flat to fit it into the WSM.
Wrapping: NO Texas crutch. Only wrapped in AL foil at the end when I put it into the cooler. It was in there ABOUT 3 hours. Then I brought it in to slice some for my oldest kid (5 yo) and then it was about another hour wrapped until the adults ate.

One benefit of the minion method in the WSM as described on the VWB site is that it's supposed to last 18 hours on a Kingsford blue bag. Well, it lasted for me about 13ish hours (to be fair when I went to bed it was at 270 vice 225 and I'm sure burning hot made it run through itself more quickly) The asymptotic rise is when I added more live coals at that point to keep the cook going.

A photo:



I may have left a little too much fat? This is from the flat.


I took the meat off at 199, it'd had a mini-stall at 192 and I wanted to get it into the cooler so it'd have some time to rest. One of Meathead's articles (maybe Brisket) discusses the Wubba Wubba point. Oh, this brisket was wubba wubba all over the place. Actually, it was essentially falling apart. On the plus side, it mean the lean side was still moist and not dry at all. But I'm pretty sure Brisket isn't supposed to fall apart like that. The probe fell out when I was taking it off the WSM and it was like a hot knife through butter anywhere I tried to stick it in. Did I cook it too long? Around that time, the coals I'd put in that morning were giving it their all (I'd opened all vents all the way) so I didn't want to drain the energy for checking vs waiting until the "magical" 203. (LESSON LEARNED!)

Questions:

1. Did it fall apart because it was overcooked?
2. Was it super moist because it was USDA prime? Or because a little too much fat cap kept it from drying out?
3. Near the end of my cook, the vents were getting clogged with ash. How do you deal with that on a WSM? (Although I guess this is probably the longest I'd be doing a continuous cook)


BONUS: It's cicada time here in MD. Some of them decided to chill under my WSM (in the metal disk on the bottom) while it was covered. They didn't leave when I lit the coals. They were dead at the end of the cook.

[Henrik]

That is one sweet looking brisket! Well done! Love that bark and juiciness.

So, to your questions:

1. Most likely. The trick with briskets (and most other meats) is to pull it when one of two conditions occur:
A) it is probe tender, OR
B) it hits 203
The trick is of course to wiggle that temp probe at around 180 deg F and upwards. That way you can 'catch it' before it goes too soft. Every cut of meat is slightly different.

2. Briquettes sure produce ash. My only suggestion would be to rotate the bottom vent a few times to get the ash out of the way, but I'm sure other forum members can chip in with better advice.

[djotaku]

The rotation method was OK. Again, I'm probably never going to be cooking more than 21 hours without stopping....but the amount falling out vs what needed to fall out was not good.

[djotaku]

I forgot to say, thanks for your answer about the meat. I'll have to add that to my ever-growing repertoire of knowledge

[Mudkat]

Thanks for the write up djotaku . I haven't cooked a brisket yet so I am sorry I am no help here. I'm am looking forward to the answers you get as I'm sure they will help alot of us learn.

[djotaku]

learning is why I've gravitated to Meathead's site and books. He's willing to learn and overturn old husband's/wive's tales

[fzxdoc]

Nice looking brisket, djotaku . Congrats!

Kathryn

[djotaku]

Thanks!

[RonB]

As mentioned above, the meat tells you when it's done. I have my first prime packer wet aging now, but I will start probing around 185* when it hits the kettle. And remember, it's not unusual for the point to cook faster. Just let it ride until both the point and flat are probe tender.

[djotaku]

Good to know about the point and flat

[JPGators17]

Results look delicious! What thermometer generated that chart?

[djotaku]

Results look delicious! What thermometer generated that chart?

It was a human thermometer interface. I do this for all my long cooks. I load up a spreadsheet in Google docs. Whenever I glance at the thermo probes on my wireless thermometer (I have both the black and the orange one Meathead recommends) I note the temps. Google's graphs are decent if you've ever used MS Excel or the LIbreOffice equivalent.

[JPGators17]

Interesting. Hadn't heard of that approach. Thanks for sharing.

[DWCowles]

Beautiful!

[djotaku]

thanks!

[djotaku]

Looking to the right here where Meathead has the gold-medal equipment, those red and grey tongs (Best.Tongs.Ever) - I used those to reload the fire Sunday at 0730ish.

[progenitive]

djotaku

Great methodology to have the temperature graph with 3 curves. I'm working on an automated version of that using Raspberry Pi. Then there wouldn't need to be that gap when you went to bed

I wanted to prompt the other members to take another look at your question #2... I don't think it's been answered here, although I've read (conflicting) answers elsewhere. Having successfully finished a brisket cook this past weekend, with an expensive piece of meat, I'm curious how good we can do with a Cash and Carry USDA Choice brisket... How much does the particular piece of meat matter to good results? I'd love to read a controlled experiment on that from someone who actually ran a comparison test.

But I can, I think, answer one part of your question: I have read multiple places that I tend to trust (including Meathead, as I recall) that the fat cap doesn't really affect meat moistness. That fat isn't going into the meat. Some have alleged that it will act like a "shield" against excessive heat, but I think one should solve the excessive heat issue rather than rely on the fat cap.

[sos2979]

If cooking over any kind of direct heat or uneven cooking I think it can help to protect, but as you said if your pit cooks evenly you shouldn't need it.

[Sonoman]

Hi Progenitive, I use Cash and Carry CAB briskets all the time for my brisket smokes and they consistently come out great. Lots of waste though; I trim a lot of fat from them. CAB is Choice or better. Sometimes Costco has Prime briskets

[progenitive]

Thanks for reporting your experience Sonoman. You could tolerate a lot of waste at $2-3/lb v. the $8 I paid, so I definitely want to try one of those. They are a bit large for my setup, but think I can figure it out.

[djotaku]

djotaku

Great methodology to have the temperature graph with 3 curves. I'm working on an automated version of that using Raspberry Pi. Then there wouldn't need to be that gap when you went to bed

I wanted to prompt the other members to take another look at your question #2... I don't think it's been answered here, although I've read (conflicting) answers elsewhere. Having successfully finished a brisket cook this past weekend, with an expensive piece of meat, I'm curious how good we can do with a Cash and Carry USDA Choice brisket... How much does the particular piece of meat matter to good results? I'd love to read a controlled experiment on that from someone who actually ran a comparison test.

But I can, I think, answer one part of your question: I have read multiple places that I tend to trust (including Meathead, as I recall) that the fat cap doesn't really affect meat moistness. That fat isn't going into the meat. Some have alleged that it will act like a "shield" against excessive heat, but I think one should solve the excessive heat issue rather than rely on the fat cap.

Thanks - I think I copied the idea from either somewhere on here (one of Dr Blonder's graphs) or based on Meathead's cooking logs. I'm an info junkie and it helps me realize when the stall arrives. I've thought of the Rasp Pi thing, but since I'm thinking of getting a thermostat for my WSM, I'd just go with the $300 model that has the graphing built in and doesn't require an app. (Since that means I'm depending on someone else's servers - no thank you!)

With the fat, I'd read that with Meathead. It's just that usually when I've ordered flat (or lean) at a BBQ joint it's been quite dry so I always go with the point (or moist). So I was trying to figure out the disparity. The only things I could think of were meat quality or that my fat cap was a bit much. Then again, the WSM is a water smoker - maybe the water pan adds a lot more humidity than the Aaron Franklin style offset smoker?

[Brisket Syndicate]

It looks great!

[djotaku]

thanks!

[progenitive]

With the fat, I'd read that with Meathead. It's just that usually when I've ordered flat (or lean) at a BBQ joint it's been quite dry so I always go with the point (or moist). So I was trying to figure out the disparity. The only things I could think of were meat quality or that my fat cap was a bit much. Then again, the WSM is a water smoker - maybe the water pan adds a lot more humidity than the Aaron Franklin style offset smoker?

djotaku This is not proved to a certainty, in my mind, but I'm starting to think it's the piece of meat that is the largest determinant of how moist it ends up being. I'm betting your USDA prime chunk of meat was the factor. You can ruin a great chunk of brisket (and I have), but a really lean piece, I believe may never really become great. I've read online people claiming to have won competitions with USDA Select, but I'm skeptical.

One piece of evidence for the assertion that you need a minimum amount of fat/marbling: SeriousEats on Sous Vide Brisket Technique

at that link, Lopez-Alt says "After a few reports from home cooks experiencing some dry brisket, I strongly recommend looking for brisket that has a fat cap still intact with a good amount of intramuscular marbling. Very lean, trimmed brisket is more likely to come out dry."

Also... I believe a water pan is more about temperature regulation than making meat moist with humidity. My mental model [corrections are welcome!]: as long as you are heating the meat, water is being driven out of the meat, not being sucked in. Meathead's book, p. 32, has a section on factors affecting "juiciness of meat" and mentions that in brisket, very much of the internal water is driven out by the end of the cook; other factors remain allowing a perception of juiciness.

Possibly a bit less water is driven out per unit time into a humid chamber [Meathead's book, p. 50, talks about slowing the evaporation rate, in the context of affecting the stall], but I think this would be a secondary effect. But I have direct, hard-won knowledge that a water pan under my meat, on my gas grill, moderates the air temperature around the meat; I simply cannot turn my grill down far enough to get good, low-enough, smoking temperature, unless I use a water pan.

[djotaku]

djotaku This is not proved to a certainty, in my mind, but I'm starting to think it's the piece of meat that is the largest determinant of how moist it ends up being. I'm betting your USDA prime chunk of meat was the factor. You can ruin a great chunk of brisket (and I have), but a really lean piece, I believe may never really become great. I've read online people claiming to have won competitions with USDA Select, but I'm skeptical.

One piece of evidence for the assertion that you need a minimum amount of fat/marbling: SeriousEats on Sous Vide Brisket Technique

at that link, Lopez-Alt says "After a few reports from home cooks experiencing some dry brisket, I strongly recommend looking for brisket that has a fat cap still intact with a good amount of intramuscular marbling. Very lean, trimmed brisket is more likely to come out dry."

Also... I believe a water pan is more about temperature regulation than making meat moist with humidity. My mental model [corrections are welcome!]: as long as you are heating the meat, water is being driven out of the meat, not being sucked in. Meathead's book, p. 32, has a section on factors affecting "juiciness of meat" and mentions that in brisket, very much of the internal water is driven out by the end of the cook; other factors remain allowing a perception of juiciness.

Possibly a bit less water is driven out per unit time into a humid chamber [Meathead's book, p. 50, talks about slowing the evaporation rate, in the context of affecting the stall], but I think this would be a secondary effect. But I have direct, hard-won knowledge that a water pan under my meat, on my gas grill, moderates the air temperature around the meat; I simply cannot turn my grill down far enough to get good, low-enough, smoking temperature, unless I use a water pan.

Sounds about right. I need to remember to take a photo of the point today when I get home. I did a slice yesterday and the intra-muscle marbling is a thing of beauty. You can see why it's "moist" instead of lean.

[Wando52]

Great looking brisket. Most importantly, how did it taste? If your customers were happy then it was a success, we tend to over analyze, but don't forget the most important thing.

Most of my experience is with choice and select (I know I know) briskets. The higher grades will get to a tenderness not reachable by the lower grades. Did it still have that meat texture, or did it get mushy? That is the sign of being over cooked.

I do think the moistness is driven by the grade of meat and not the fat cap.

I don't have a WSM so I can't help with the third point.

I also agree with Henrik that you should check tenderness starting at 180F and not just target a given temperature because of what someone recommends or what worked last time. So many factors go into this no two cooks are the same.

Once again, great looking brisket! Well done.

[djotaku]

It was very tasty. It didn't veer into mush, but I'd say waiting for 203 might have done it considering how it was pulling apart like pulled pork